Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G/day fellas,

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Mitsu and am now I'm looking to buy a sub-$20k pajero as I need a mid-sized 4WD. It'll be my daily driver and I'll be only doing mild 4WDing, touring and camping. I don't really tow anything but might in the future. For mods I'd be looking at keeping it legal without needing an engineer's cert... so mild suspension lift and maybe 1-2" increase in tyre size. My current Suzi Grand Vitara SWB is too small although it has an OME lift, ARB locker and changed diff ratios.

In carsales I can see the NL, NM and NP from about 1999 - 2002 fit into my price range.

I've searched the bible/wikipedia and wonder what the pro's and con's are in these models? Forgive the long list of questions.

- I think the NL is solid rear (3 link) whilst NM and NP are IRS? Is the NL a comfortable tourer?
- I'm not a huge fan of torsion bars, mainly from an engineering/cost/modification view point. Can the torsion bar handle a mild lift without loosing articulation?
- How good is the LSD? For mild 4WDing is it necessary to change to an airlocker?
- Is the std tyre size 31"? So is a 32 or 33" easily liveable without changing diff ratios? In my Suzi when I increased tyre size by 2" I felt the loss in acceleration especially on hills.
- The engine (3.5l V6) appears to be similar. Is the SOHC better then the DOHC? Does it use a timing belt or chain? Are there any reliability issues? How many km's is too much?
- What is the economy like?
- Why are the diesels so rare, my NSW search found 250 petrols but only 1 diesel?
- As I'm always cautious of new models especially within the first 12 months of release are there any reliability issues with the NM?
- Which model has better ground clearance? I've read the NM and NP are lower and wider then the NL but being IRS does it have better clearance (but reduced articulation)?
- Wear are the child seat tie down points in the rear? Are they on the floor or roof?
- How extensive is the accessory market for the different models-dual battery tray, lockers, rear bars, underbody protection etc? My Suzi had a crap accessory range - bull bar, snorkle, extra internal storage etc are either non-existent in Aus or way too over priced due to low demand.
- I know the NP has traction control, but does the NL/NM have ABS?
- I'm looking at an auto box. Are there any problems with it?

Are there any general reliability issues I should be aware of?

Thanks heaps chaps.
Ben

I was hoping that some of the gurus out there would have come in to help you by now, but it must be a nice day and they are all out there doing their thing. Either that, or they are all out there fixing up their cars…. So here goes – I’ll give you my perspective of it, quoting your questions and replying as I go. I have a March 2000 compliance plated NL Escape, fitted with LPG. It has done 214000 km and thusfar, I can see no reason to part with it.


- I think the NL is solid rear (3 link) whilst NM and NP are IRS? Is the NL a comfortable tourer?
The NL is a solid rear axle, the NM & NP are IRS. Is it a comfortable tourer? Well, when I bought it new, I forgot to order springs for it. At least that was how it seemed at the time. Previously, I had a Range Rover and got sick of it marking its territory (leaking oil) everywhere I parked it but more importantly I was getting gravel rash on my elbows as I was cornering. Comparing the Rangie with a new Pajero was unfair. Nothing compares with a Range Rover for ride. Suffice to say that I still have the Pajero and accept that it is not as good as the Rangie, but I am happy with what I have. In the last 6 weeks, I have driven a friend’s Toyota Landbruiser 80 series over 13500 km and believe me the Pajero is MUCH better than the Landbruiser.

I would say that the later (NM & NP series Pajeros would have better ride than the NL. I still see no reason to part with mine yet, so the ride isn’t too bad.


- I'm not a huge fan of torsion bars, mainly from an engineering/cost/modification view point. Can the torsion bar handle a mild lift without loosing articulation?
The basic design of the suspension is the limiting factor in articulation, unless you go to extremes and make major modifications. Torsion bars are probably easier to adapt than coil springs – you simply wind them up tighter, although you lose the lower limit of wheel travel then. Not enough articulation – get a Range Rover!


- How good is the LSD? For mild 4WDing is it necessary to change to an airlocker?
My NL has a standard rear LSD. From what I have read, it is one of the best in the business. Certainly, I can feel it tighten up when turning on a wet or slippery surface. In fact sometimes I think it may be contributing to rear tyre wear, but you don’t keep doing donuts or whatever so this is a minor issue. Personally, I don’t think you need a rear locker unless you are really going for rough stuff and even then I think that the std LSD is OK anyway.


- Is the std tyre size 31"? So is a 32 or 33" easily liveable without changing diff ratios? In my Suzi when I increased tyre size by 2" I felt the loss in acceleration especially on hills.
The Std tyre size on the Escape is 235/75/15 which is I think equivalent to 31”. I have kept the size as original, but would like to have slightly higher gearing. I think it could handle 32” easily and probably 33”. On-road performance on std tyres is good.


- The engine (3.5l V6) appears to be similar. Is the SOHC better then the DOHC? Does it use a timing belt or chain? Are there any reliability issues? How many km's is too much?
How long is a piece of string? The consensus seems to be that the SOHC is as good as the DOHC. It uses a timing belt which must be replaced every 100000 km. The engine is an interference type - if the belt breaks or slips, pistons can contact valves and that is expensive.

Reliability seems to be OK. I have 214000 km on mine and the only things so far have been an oil leak from the tappet cover and occasional noisy valve lifters. I use LPG all the time and it is vital that the spark plugs and leads by 100%, or you get BIG backfires, blowing the guts out of the airflow meter.

As with all machinery, how you care for it determines how well it lasts. Oil changes must be the single most important item. I expect to get well over 300000 and probably more like 400000 km from mine before I have to look at the rings or bearings. Same for the valves I hope. If you do lots of short, cold runs, you can expect to wear out the engine far faster than if you do like I do – start it up and then drive it for hours on end. I change the engine oil every 7500 km and the filter every 15000 km.. If the previous owner has not done regular oil changes the engine will not last as long.


- What is the economy like?
I get 16 L/100 km at 100 km/hr from mine on LPG. More like 14 L/100 on petrol. When I tow my 16 ft caravan I get about 20.5 L/100 km on LPG at 90 to 95 km/hr. If I stick the boot into it it sucks 25L/100 or more.

From what I have read and heard, the NM and later models use more fuel. Obviously diesels use a lot less. I would expect to use about 10L/100 km for a diesel. Be aware that the early NM models used the old 2.8 diesel from the NL, but they changed to the 3.2 diesel later on. That engine is supposed to be the best in the business for economy. power and reliability.

Going back to LPG, I posted a reply some time back to a query about diesel or petrol. Briefly, my conclusions were that whilst you can buy LPG for less than 60% of the cost of diesel, you are in front with the gas. Last week, I went up the Birdsville track to the Cooper Creek with my friend in his Landbruiser 80 series (also on gas) and paid $1.12 per litre for gas at Lyndhurst (OUCH!). Even so, diesel was $1.85 (I think) so I was still in front on my reckoning.

Obviously the availability of LPG outback is an issue, but I have driven my Pajero round the block 3 times now and each time used on 2 tanks of petrol, so if you are careful about where and how you go, availability isn’t a major drama. Last week I saw LPG in Melbourne at 44.8 cents per litre so you can guess which fuel is the cheapest to use if you frequent these places (oh how I wish we had competition where I live…)


- Why are the diesels so rare, my NSW search found 250 petrols but only 1 diesel?
A hard one to answer, but I suspect that diesel owners are probably like me – buy their car and hang on to it forever


- As I'm always cautious of new models especially within the first 12 months of release are there any reliability issues with the NM?
The NM did have some issues with wheel bearings on early models, but by now they should have been resolved (the wheels should have fallen off by now and been replaced with later versions). Also, I read that they also had problems with the braking systems – something in the master cylinder. Again, those that haven’t crashed have probably had that issue orted by now. Otherwise, I don’t think that they had any major dramas.


- Which model has better ground clearance? I've read the NM and NP are lower and wider then
the NL but being IRS does it have better clearance (but reduced articulation)?
The NM and later models certainly have more ground clearance than the NL. They are wider and as far as I can see they are higher as well. From what I have read, the NM and later have better articulation and are better off road than the NL. I would have to say that off-road, the NM and later models would win hands down over a standard NL.

- Where are the child seat tie down points in the rear? Are they on the floor or roof?
My NL has 2 child seat anchors in the roof above the rear door and a middle mounted one on the floor again just forward of the rear door.



- How extensive is the accessory market for the different models-dual battery tray, lockers, rear bars, underbody protection etc? My Suzi had a crap accessory range - bull bar, snorkle, extra internal storage etc are either non-existent in Aus or way too over priced due to low demand.
I only have a Poly bullbar on my NL. There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of accessories or parts for the NL. NJ and NK are covered, as are NM and later, but the NL seems to be an orphan. Having said this, if you are careful, you can get most bits to suit from the previous NJ & NK series to fit what you want – the suppliers don’t seem to know about the NL.

I have read that the NM and later series had plastic bash plates underneath. That doesn’t sound like a good idea for a 4WD. I have had my bash plates off and thumped them back into shape a couple of times, but they are thick steel and you can do that.


- I know the NP has traction control, but does the NL/NM have ABS?
ABS was an option on the NL Escape – I have it. Twin aribags came with the ABS option as well I think. As far as I know, ABS was an option on the earlier NM series, but later became standard across the range.

I know that some people have had issues with the traction control at times. It seems to shut down power to the grippy wheels and when you are about to be T-boned by a dirty big truck, the last thing you wasn’t is to be down on power. Same in sand I believe. I don’t have the luxury of a traction control computer – I have to rely on my fading brain.

- I'm looking at an auto box. Are there any problems with it?
I only have manuals – that was probably the main reason I sold my Rangie. From what I have read, the autos seem to be OK – the NM’s had I think a 5 speed auto. See my comment above about maintenance. Now double that comment when it comes to auto boxes. Change the oil frequently. Look after the auto and it will probably go forever. Abuse it at you peril.



Sorry for the long reply but it may help or a least get some of the other members to get off their ...... and at least shoot my reply down in flames and that way you might get some NM and later comments as well.

date has done an excellent job with the answers - I think he's covered things very nicely. However, I'm an argumentative SOB...

date wrote:The basic design of the suspension is the limiting factor in articulation, unless you go to extremes and make major modifications. Torsion bars are probably easier to adapt than coil springs – you simply wind them up tighter, although you lose the lower limit of wheel travel then.

The IFS is definitely a limitation, no argument. The "wind them up tighter" is a fallacy - there is no additional tension in the torsion bars after winding (arguably, there's actually less tension, but the difference is negligible). All you're doing is changing the angle at which the assembly (including the lower control arm) sits - put the control arm on an angle that points down, and the car sits higher.

Because there are rubber stops at each end of the suspension travel, you don't gain travel by winding the bars - you only change where the car "sits" in between. After winding the bars you will have reduced droop travel, but increased bump travel. Most people (me included) will trim their droop stops to restore some droop travel, but I strongly advise against trimming bump stops.

A few people, date included, believe that this means that you won't hit your bump stops any more. Personally, I've taken photos of mine with one wheel on the droop stop, and the other on the bump stop, so I'm confident that I still have all my travel available.

date wrote:- How good is the LSD? For mild 4WDing is it necessary to change to an airlocker?
My NL has a standard rear LSD. From what I have read, it is one of the best in the business. Certainly, I can feel it tighten up when turning on a wet or slippery surface. In fact sometimes I think it may be contributing to rear tyre wear, but you don’t keep doing donuts or whatever so this is a minor issue. Personally, I don’t think you need a rear locker unless you are really going for rough stuff and even then I think that the std LSD is OK anyway.

Yes, one of the best in the business - Torsen from NL onwards, so no clutch packs to wear. Personally, I have no interest in replacing mine with a locker. My LSD has pushed my Paj through spots where a better equipped (bigger, more aggressive tyres with more lift) shorty needed the locker. I like that my LSD is always "on" - I don't need to worry about it. I have fitted a front locker, and rarely needed it - but when I've wanted it, it's been fantastic! It's a continuous point of contention, but I swear by front locker / rear LSD. A 4wd club in SA tested front vs rear and concluded that front only makes a much bigger difference than rear only

date wrote:The Std tyre size on the Escape is 235/75/15 which is I think equivalent to 31”. I have kept the size as original, but would like to have slightly higher gearing. I think it could handle 32” easily and probably 33”. On-road performance on std tyres is good.

235/75R15 is closer to 29". NL - NP will take 265/75R16 (32") easily on factory alloys (NL Escape may need flares to cover the guards). NL should take 285/75R16 (33") on 16x8 Patrol rims, and track remains legal. NM/NP will take the same wheel/tyre combo, but track is increased beyond legal limits, and I (personally) have doubts about what this does to wheel bearings and steering geometry. I'm not sure how easy it is to find 16x8 with the correct offset for NM/NP.