Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Guys,

When on the beach, I can't use high range, it just doesn't have the power. Not even on the flat areas on the beach, as soon as the wheels start to dig just a little, High Range takes it nowhere. What is everyone elses experience?

I have a 94 LWB g16b Vitara. The engine is in excelent condition, it was the best I looked at (took me a year of looking to find a good Vit!). I have 235/75 BFG ATs. Hurricane extractors (standard cat-back)

I was considering my options to make this more capable in the bush and be able to handle more weight (camping), and I will either be putting transfer gears in to lower the ratio, or selling and buying a cruiser/patrol. The low range just isn't low enough to take it easy through the bush, especially if the car is loaded with gear. I'd prefer not to have to sell the vitara, but if I put lower gears in, I won't be able to use low range on the beach (it will be too slow) and I don't have the power to use High range.

1) What are peoples experience with High Range and the beach, and what mods do you have?
2) Can you suggest any way to get a bit more power(tourqe?)

You'll find that most 4wds are like that. They all have fairly pitiful power to weight ratios. As soon as you hit a dry loose part of sand it's back to low range.

What I'm thinking looking at your post is

1 are the 235 tyres standard size or oversized? if they are over then diff gears would be a good start
2. Your extractor setup might have shifted the peak torque curve futher up the rev range
3. when you are loaded up for camping, your shocks can't handle the extra weight and it forces you to slow down. You could run heavier duty shocks to fix that problem.

1st question should of been, What pressures are you running?

i run 12psi in a sierra with a g16b, Yes the vit is heavier, but alot of people with sierra's run alot lower than me.

High range, 2wd also if i want to play.

never... unless the beach is like a freeway.

oldmate wrote:You'll find that most 4wds are like that. They all have fairly pitiful power to weight ratios. As soon as you hit a dry loose part of sand it's back to low range.

What I'm thinking looking at your post is

1 are the 235 tyres standard size or oversized? if they are over then diff gears would be a good start
2. Your extractor setup might have shifted the peak torque curve futher up the rev range
3. when you are loaded up for camping, your shocks can't handle the extra weight and it forces you to slow down. You could run heavier duty shocks to fix that problem.

Thanks for the input...

Everyone else I know only ever uses high range on the beach, but they are Crusiers/Patrols/Surf/Hilux/Rav4...

1 - They are oversized. They are too big for the rim technically (mind you I have never heard of anyone one here having issues with that size). I didn't look into diff reduction, only transfer...I could consider that...
2 - Perhaps, but either way, it worked better on the beach with the exctracters...but still not good enough for high range
3 - I have heavy duty shocks, and as yet, have not really been loaded up as yet even with 1 passenger and me (160kgs all up) plus an eski...it can't handle high range.

BlueSuzy wrote:1st question should of been, What pressures are you running?

i run 12psi in a sierra with a g16b, Yes the vit is heavier, but alot of people with sierra's run alot lower than me.

High range, 2wd also if i want to play.

I start at 15, lowest I have been is 12. Mostly cause the tyres are too big for the rim, so I don't want to risk any lower. If I had wider rims, I would run lower

atari4x4 wrote:never... unless the beach is like a freeway.

Do you have reduction gears? What are they? How do you find them on the beach in Low range? I am usually up in 4th in Low range as is.. with reduction gears....

no reduction gears, i have 5.1:1 diff gears on 31's, originally 4.6:1 im running the j20a SV420 vitara (97kw), i can spend a whole weekend in the dunes & never use hi-range. it's not a poo-cruiser & it doesn't have massive torque so you need to use the low range gearing to your advantage.

how fast are you traveling at on the beach to want to use hi-range, most beaches have speed limits?

Thanks for the info on the diff. I'll look into that as an option as well. I assume you have to match the front as well?

40kph (which is the speed limit here at Stockton)

On my sierra i use 2wd or High on most hard sand, and low range for really soft stuff. Most of the main beach at stockton is done in 2wd or high. That is with a tired injected 1.3l running 32 swampers through calmini 5.14 reduction gears.

Layto....

eXc wrote: I start at 15, lowest I have been is 12. Mostly cause the tyres are too big for the rim, so I don't want to risk any lower. If I had wider rims, I would run lower

This is incorrect. A wider tire on a narrower rim actually allows you to run a lower pressure. You could probably go down to about 8psi if you really needed to. I personally run 215/75/15 on stock 5.5 rims with tubes and run 5psi without a problem.

zukmeista wrote:

eXc wrote: I start at 15, lowest I have been is 12. Mostly cause the tyres are too big for the rim, so I don't want to risk any lower. If I had wider rims, I would run lower

This is incorrect. A wider tire on a narrower rim actually allows you to run a lower pressure. You could probably go down to about 8psi if you really needed to. I personally run 215/75/15 on stock 5.5 rims with tubes and run 5psi without a problem.

There are plenty that would disagree re wider tyre narrow rim and air pressure.
In many cases a wide tyre on a narrow rim will put greater pressure on the bead making it break easier than if t were on a wider rim with the bead bundle more square on to the rim.

X2.

The inside bead will want to lift on cornering.

Steve.

diff gear reduction will be a bit hard in my research i dont think you can get anything lower than 5.12 diffs which yours would have being 1.6

please correct me if im wrong.

i do stockton in 2WD high range where ever i am really except for steep hill climbs. unless im in very soft sand, which isnt very often.. i have a SWB carby vitara on 30's with extractors.

Gwagensteve wrote:X2.

The inside bead will want to lift on cornering.

Steve.

So don't corner as fast. Simple

So sierra's seem to go ok in HR...

Sounds like I might need to do transfer gears and hope it's not too slow on the beach.

Aftermarket transfer gears wont get you anywhere more in a vit on a beach. High range is not reduced like sierra's. You will still be in lowrange.

Diff gears will reduce your overall gearing.

BlueSuzy wrote:Aftermarket transfer gears wont get you anywhere more in a vit on a beach. High range is not reduced like sierra's. You will still be in lowrange.

Diff gears will reduce your overall gearing.

Yeah, I realise transfer gears won't help on the beach...I am assuming they will make it worse (slow it down) that is why I am trying to find out how I can get it working in HR so when I do the transfer gears I can still go on the beach.

So why don't you just use low range on the beach?

Again, that is the whole point of this thread.

like I said above

eXc wrote:So sierra's seem to go ok in HR...

Sounds like I might need to do transfer gears and hope it's not too slow on the beach.

ATM I use low range. That is fine. But if I put reduction gears in, it will be slow as all hell on the beach and I won't get up any dunes...So I was wondering if people use high range, cause if they do, I would try to work out why I can't. If people used low range, then it means I will have to deal with it, with reduction gears.

Run 10psi ya pansies, I used to run 10 un beadlocked on 31s in the GU, just take a ratchet strap and compressor and some start ya bastard in case

eXc wrote:

BlueSuzy wrote:
Diff gears will reduce your overall gearing.

Yeah, I realise transfer gears won't help on the beach...I am assuming they will make it worse (slow it down) that is why I am trying to find out how I can get it working in HR so when I do the transfer gears I can still go on the beach.

Did you read this??

BlueSuzy wrote: Did you read this??

yes?

Did you comprehend it?

Do your diff gears!

BlueSuzy wrote:Do your diff gears!

he already has the 5.12:1's so there aren't any REAL options available....

there are the calmini 5.8:1 r&P but they've been unavailable the whole time i've owned a vitara.

lower your tyre pressures to 10-12psi & be done with it.

you cant get diff gears for the vitara, calmini made a 5.8 set ages ago but have stopped.

im having the same problem with my gearing, once you get ur gears it will be to slow. so u will have to us high and just drop your pressures and keep ur revs up.

Mitch

zukmeista wrote:Did you comprehend it?

yes.

eXc wrote:
I didn't look into diff reduction, only transfer...I could consider that...

zookster666 wrote:diff gear reduction will be a bit hard in my research i dont think you can get anything lower than 5.12 diffs which yours would have being 1.6

please correct me if im wrong.

shandy wrote:you cant get diff gears for the vitara, calmini made a 4.8 set ages ago but have stopped.

im having the same problem with my gearing, once you get ur gears it will be to slow. so u will have to us high and just drop your pressures and keep ur revs up.

Mitch

That's what I figured would happen. I'll have to go for another run with lower pressures in high and see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice all