Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i'm spending some haard earned on my disco to turn it into a tourer i want some strong reliable axles because i will be turning 35's i am also planning into entering into amature comps and want to run a good lsd in the rear and locker up front.
has anyone done these mods before, what is the cost and how do they perform

hilux/80 series centre conversion is a good strong setup, search it, more than enough info on here

Hey Starky,
Me and a friend are currently doing diff conversions on my '86 Rangie, we fitted a GQ diff up front and have just fitted an 80 series rear. Both converions are pretty straight forward if your handy with a welder and have a bit of patience (plus know a friendly machine shop to make a couple of spacers and washers), they're a hell of a lot stronger than the Rover or Disco items you also get a bit of a wider track too, and with the 80 rear you get a LSD to get you going till you get your lockers, it's also a fairley cheap swap if you shop around and can do the work yourself. There's various diff ratios and plenty of wheel styles to choose from, and no specialist parts to worry about (apart from drive shafts, which you'll have to get made to suit) if things do wear out or break. If you want any more info or piccies just PM me.
Laters, Jim.....aka rover_owner

i would go with the 60 gear for a few reasons

ofsets are corect
can be made way stronger than any patroll diff for little $$

hillbilliywheelchair wrote:i would go with the 60 gear for a few reasons

ofsets are corect
can be made way stronger than any patroll diff for little $$

Hmm - the track width of 60 series is smaller than rovers and a low pinion dont works good in the front of Discoverys but it is possible.

Actually i got my front housing for a Nissan / Toyota conversion today. Still need a rear 80 housing...
So my opinion is stated but i want to run a lot of hp and 37" tyres. I want to put a Nissan high pinion in the rear as well.

I have McNamara axles and ARB lockers front and rear with 35" Simex ET and never destroyed anything.
It is not a bad solution to just upgrade your internals for tyres up to 35" but the ratio will be useless.
Are Rover 4.7 ratios hardend from Longfields a cheap way out of that problem? Have somebody tried that?

The Toyota conversion is not bad but it is still only 8" front and rear.

At the end every conversion (Nissan/Toyota, Toyota 8", MaxiDrive) will cost you ~4.5k to get all perfect and locked but the Nissan/Toyota will be the strongest.

rover_owner wrote:Me and a friend are currently doing diff conversions on my '86 Rangie, we fitted a GQ diff up front and have just fitted an 80 series rear...

Hello Jim
Do you have a lot of castor problems and what have you done about the lower shock mount on the front?

Thanks
Chris

if you are looking for rover ratio solutions check out Ashcrofts new range of R+P's

Serg

uninformed wrote:if you are looking for rover ratio solutions check out Ashcrofts new range of R+P's

Serg

Hello

That is a good solution but very pricey. You will end up with far over 6k for upgrading your complete Rover diffs.
The most expensive try to make them last.

Lockers $2500, CVs $1200, axles $1400, ratios $1200 = $6300 for a 8.5" bevel pinion diff and it wont be bullet proof...
I think the Toyota conversion end up cheaper and same stong or stronger.
The US dollar is down and a set of longfield only are ~$600 and each axle will be ~$180.


Chris

Oops! the jap diffs under a Land Rover always get a good debate going aye .
Cost is a big factor in any conversion which is why I went the way I have with GQ and LC80 diffs, a rough (and I mean rough) breakdown of costs for mine at the moment is $250 for the front diff complete, around $350 for the LC80 complete rear (already had 4:11 ratio) $120 for GQ 4:11 crown and pinion, between $150 to $200 for new seals, gaskets and oils (not sure exact figure as bits bought at seperate times) the front brake lines were just re-routed and the dual system capped off (you can do this a couple of different ways), the rear is yet to be completed but i will either modify the existing pipe work or just buy new and re-run that.
Now the biggest cost is going to be the drive shafts, and the solid bar machined up required for the front steering arm, plus the engineering inspection which I been quoted around $200 (I think some states will allow you to weld up the two arms as the Rover one will go inside the GQ one with a little bit of assistance) as you can't weld them together in sunny Queensland , these cost will vary depending on how many people you call or friends you have in the trades required.
Now as you can see I'm talking just over a thousand dollars here (not that I'm a tight B#5!+rd I just don't have thousands to spend) and a fair bit of work to get it all together (Ebay and the Trading post are my friends) and a fair bit of time in your or a friends shed with a grinder a welder and some bits of plate plus the mounts you hack off the old Rover diffs.
As for lockers the choice is yours if buying new, or as I will be doing, I will see what comes up when I have the cash in hand.
When I say BUDGET BUILD I mean it.... so far around $1000 to $1200

By the way Chris, I used the original spring mounts and brackets cut off the original Rover diffs, and we welded them on in their new positions on the GQ and LC diffs after removing theirs, and I haven't had any issuses with caster as I only have a 2" suspension lift and 2" body lift, because I will be making up a long travel kit when I get it all back on the road as I don't want any stability or crappy steering issues found on some overly high trucks but still want good articulation.
Hope this helps some of the people who are interested in taking on the swap.
Laters, Jim... aka rover_owner

And Jim, you now get good brakes as well.

Hello Jim

For the steering rod - just use your swanneck (steering box side) and the steering rod from a Discovery 2 - they have a straight bar without neck.
That means the bar of the discovery 2 is exactly that much longer as you need. And they fit together - same thread.

The castor - If you dont weld the spring mount on in the same angle like the nissan ones has been, then you are not able to correct your castor without having the springs sitting to the back. The distance between chassis mount and floor and the distance between axle center and floor is very different from Rover to Nissan. Nissan arms are mounted heaps lower on the chassis. The result should be a wrong castor on the Rover even without any lift. But maybe i am wrong - i dont have my axle in so far.

The panhard is a bigger prob. Did you weld the Rover mount for the panhard on the axle or do you use the Nissan bolt for the panhard?
Because the problem what i seen yesterday is, that the panhard bolt on the Nissan housing is to close to the axle.
The bolt will be always under stress. The panhard of a Rover sits far in the front of the housing.

I am not quite sure if it is ok to just use a panhard with a s-bend in it to step out a bit.
Maybe it will be an option to move the axle i bit forward by using a spacer on the radius arm at the chassis mount.
With that we would gain more clearance to the cabin floor, a bit more wheelbase and the panhard is not under stress.
But i have to see how the steering arm end up with that forward movement.
Should be all nice parallel.

Hmm - maybe i am a bit off topic...

Sorry for that starky!

PacMan wrote:Hmm - maybe i am a bit off topic...

Sorry for that starky!

it's all good info i was pondering steering and phanard rod issues yesterday

Hey Pacman,
when it came to the panard i did both, we used 15mm spacers and pushed the diff further forward (we had to take 5mm off the nut to give a couple of threads showing, this also addressed the rear of the front guard clearance) and we used the original panard bracket from the Rover diff and welded it onto the diff with it in position attached to the panard to eliminate any stresses.
With the spring mounts, if you weld them at the same angle as the Patrol ones you will have to address the caster correction by either corrected bushes, corrected Radius arms or drop boxes before you weld them up fully taking into consideration the 15mm shunt forward. We decided to try them with the standard arms and welded them at the angle required to get the springs to sit correct and try it first, as its not that hard to re-possition the mounts at a later time.
heres a couple of piccies hope this helps



I'll post up some more piccies if you guys are interested, laters Jim...

Hello Jim

Thanks for your info and pictures!
In picture 2 with the flat spring mount is very good to see, that the castor of the front is already out of spec.
I think we have to get castor correction arms or plates.
Do you have a picture of your new position of the panhard bracket?

For the shocky mount - i think about to bold/weld a pin to eye adapter in the bottom.
Than we could put the spring mount very low (like the factory Nissan mounts).


Thanks
Chris

PacMan wrote:

hillbilliywheelchair wrote:i would go with the 60 gear for a few reasons

ofsets are corect
can be made way stronger than any patroll diff for little $$

Hmm - the track width of 60 series is smaller than rovers and a low pinion dont works good in the front of Discoverys but it is possible.

Actually i got my front housing for a Nissan / Toyota conversion today. Still need a rear 80 housing...
So my opinion is stated but i want to run a lot of hp and 37" tyres. I want to put a Nissan high pinion in the rear as well.

I have McNamara axles and ARB lockers front and rear with 35" Simex ET and never destroyed anything.
It is not a bad solution to just upgrade your internals for tyres up to 35" but the ratio will be useless.
Are Rover 4.7 ratios hardend from Longfields a cheap way out of that problem? Have somebody tried that?

The Toyota conversion is not bad but it is still only 8" front and rear.

At the end every conversion (Nissan/Toyota, Toyota 8", MaxiDrive) will cost you ~4.5k to get all perfect and locked but the Nissan/Toyota will be the strongest.

rover_owner wrote:Me and a friend are currently doing diff conversions on my '86 Rangie, we fitted a GQ diff up front and have just fitted an 80 series rear...

Hello Jim
Do you have a lot of castor problems and what have you done about the lower shock mount on the front?

Thanks
Chris

Re the wms measurements on the Toyota diffs, keep in mind they run a much larger offset on the rims than what Land Rover does.

I'm running LC60 axles in my Series Land Rover. For the front (or rear) low pinion, you should be able to fit a Nissan Patrol HP into the housing as the diffs are very close in the 3rd member stud PCD, but it will need a redrill etc and a spacer. If you fit a Patrol airlocker, you'll also need toyota side gears. The only factory Nissan ratio that will work with factory Toyota ones is 4.1 or 4.11.

Hello Slunnie

The old Landcruisers up to 88 have 4.11 like Nissan.
The 30 spline side gears from ARB are $420 - that is very fair.
As spacer i use just an other center. Flange grinded of and maschined down.

Chris

by the way guys, I was looking back at some of my old posts, before I started my diff swap I was thinking of going the 60 LC diffs and remembered that a guy on here has already done it some time ago, might be worth checking out this thread if your interested...
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 27&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Laters, Jim.

Could a GQ rear be flipped to move the pinion over abit (flip the housing not the centre), i know you'd have to spin the pan and re do the studs, but what about the brakes? OR would it be easier to just swap the axle tubes over? Reason i ask is i'm thinkng of going GQ and want to run 3.545 centres which you cant with an 80 series rear

6.5 rangie wrote:Could a GQ rear be flipped to move the pinion over abit (flip the housing not the centre), i know you'd have to spin the pan and re do the studs, but what about the brakes? OR would it be easier to just swap the axle tubes over? Reason i ask is i'm thinkng of going GQ and want to run 3.545 centres which you cant with an 80 series rear

I haven't done it with a Patrol diff but have with a Landcruiser (in that case I wanted to reduce the offset). But from the top of my head I don't see why you can't.

I haven't got a complete Patrol rear to look at this moment, but there will be a few things to fix (diff pan, cutouts for crown wheel, drain plug, breather, diff mounting studs, spring seats, control arm mounts etc.), not sure without looking, what will be involved with brake caliper mounts.

You will probably gain something like 75 to 90 mm offset.

Having 2 housings would be the easiest, then you could cut and shut the axle tubes then just swap the axles over

It is a pity that you are in sunny Queensland as we are currently about to sell a 95 Disco chassis with GQ diffs,7 inch Lovell springs from an 80 series,long travel Remote Adjustable Tough Dogs , double cardin front drive shaft & modified rear one ,already done.They used Disco mounts & just welded them to the diffs.Steve

how much for the diffs?

They are my son's & he is after about $1200 for the lot.

Hey Chris,
sorry the piccie isn't that great. but as you can see (hopefully) once the radius arms were moved forward (by 15mm) the panard bracket didn't have to be moved to far away from the housing.


As for the shocky mounts, as I said we just re-used the original mount because we've done a 50mm body lift, that means we can use a spacer under the shocky turret and then use longer shocks (approx 100mm) and captive plates for the springs, hopefully that should give me around 30% more travel, but hey if your doing the conversion it usually pays to look at all the alternatives and see which one works for you.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask if there's any other questions or piccies you need.
Laters, Jim.

Radste you got PM!

6.5 rangie wrote:And Jim, you now get good brakes as well.

?? Not compared to 'fender brakes ?

(although the extra width of the GU brakes is nice to stav off fade)

Jumping from the GU to the Defender and back I prefer the pedal of the 'fender, and they both pull up just as well as each other in an emergency.
I've always hated the GU pedal actually, it's long and feels like a clutch to me, in a panic stop my foot just sinks deeper towards the floor with their booster.......and yes they've been bled

O'course that isn't using a Disco/RRC m/c with GU calipers/rotors either.

I'd use either LC80 F/R or 80 F and GQ rear, LC60 although cheaper are too narrow as mentioned before.

Loanrangie wrote:I'd use either LC80 F/R or 80 F and GQ rear, LC60 although cheaper are too narrow as mentioned before.

Hmm - front 80 is only 8 inch and it is not worth to change the hole axle - just change the center into a Rover housing.
And GQ rear? That is a center pumpkin and is not good at all.
And 60 have rear drum break...

I think i did not understand your post right or?

Thanks
Chris

i think he got it back the front, 80 rear, gq front

PacMan wrote:

Loanrangie wrote:I'd use either LC80 F/R or 80 F and GQ rear, LC60 although cheaper are too narrow as mentioned before.

Hmm - front 80 is only 8 inch and it is not worth to change the hole axle - just change the center into a Rover housing.
And GQ rear? That is a center pumpkin and is not good at all.
And 60 have rear drum break...

I think i did not understand your post right or?

Thanks
Chris

Nah i got it arse about, lc80 in the rear and gq up front so that both centres have the correct drop, 80/lux centres into rover housings would be my choice but then you need to factor in at least 3 custom axles, new cv's plus some machining .