Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I've only been here a few months and my main focus here is to learn about the axles used in the Patrols since we haven't seen them in the USA for about 30 years and I have a mind to swap my IFS Xterra with some form of a Patrol-based solid axle. I see lots of questions about transmissions, engines, and transfer cases too.

I've found some great information and new info continues to pop up now and then. I'd love to see it all compiled and archived.

So if a mod or someone else highly regarded is inclined to agree, let's start separate threads to input and discuss information for each of the following topics. I've put in some starter questions, but as long as it's not TOO niche a point, feel free to add more. Once the threads have had some time to simmer and settle out, we should skim the refined data off of them and create corresponding sticky bible/reference threads that can only be updated by an admin/mod as new information surfaces.


Models: What years were the various models produced, in what markets and in what variations. 160, G60, Y60, KL60, Y61, MK, MQ, GQ, GR, GU, R50, D21? I think some are different name for the same thing in the Patrol models, I dunno. SWB/MWB/LWB? RHD/LHD? What engines, transmissions, transfer cases, suspension type (leaf, coil, 3-link, 5-link), axles, etc. Don't forget the non-Patrols, Pathfinder, Navara, D21, Safari, Maverick, Xterra

Engines: I automatically think of any Nissan truck/SUV engine with a xD## designation as a diesel, but I know that's not true. About the only thing I'm sure of is the numeric part representing displacement. What engines were used, in what models, in what years? Diesel, turbo, carb, injected, number of cylinders, inline, V? What transmissions were behind them? What swaps into what, and how easily?

Transmissions: Models by designation (FS****, RE****, etc.), manual or auto, number of gears and their ratios, PTO, overdrive, length, models they were used in and when, spline counts, output length, bell housing info, what swaps with what and how easily...

Transfer cases: Models by designation (TX12, T100, etc.), divorced/married, ratio, models they were used in, what transmissions are they paired with, offset or centered rear, left, right, or centered front output, gear or chain drive, availability of crawler gears, spline counts, fixed/slip yokes, yoke size/pattern...

Axles: Designation (currently being discussed), application by model, year, market, type (salisbury/hotchkiss), leaf,coil, 3/5-link, SPOA/SPUA, disc/drum, OEM ratios and applications, aftermarket ratios, OEM LSD/locker availibility and application, aftermarket locker availability and application, gear size, gear tooth counts, axle spline counts/diameters/lengths, semi/full-float, low/high-pinion, center/offset, U-joint/CV, auto/manual/fixed hubs, overall WMS-WMS width, width from spring pad to spring pad, yoke size/pattern, intra- and inter-changeability of components (gears, centres, entire third-members front/rear or even H233/H260 etc.)

My head is spinning already. Some recent threads have a lot of good info and there are some older threads referenced in them and many more to be mined. This can be a fantastic project, let's see what we can do.

Brent

big job dude! if you want to start collating the info that is already here, i will start adding my own, make it a sticky, and try and keep the whole thing managable and concise...

Good post Brent....and I know you are pretty well informed on Nissan in general. But Wendle is right, it is a HUGE task!!

I set out to write the Patrol bible, mostly just for the pre-MQ's, this being the 4W60 thru G61's, 1951-1980. I got the history done which is on my website. But I was after more such as you mention Brent. This task is what ultimately led me to OuterLimits. Yet, I realized at least 6 months ago this task is very time consuming and I don't have the time. And this just for the early Patrols. There were many changes made to them besides mechanical and I was looking at it from a point of view that the info is needed to restore a specific year or model correctly...in the end bring up the value of a (G)60 in the USA. At least get it close to the $30,000 or more FJ TLC's are selling for over here. There were at least 12 different models of the Patrol in that 30 year time span, maybe a few more, have not counted in awhile. That is a lot of shit to document....

Any ways, I think it is a great idea and for this forum would save tons of questions that seem to get asked over and over. I would be willing to help a little with it as time allows as the info is useful to me being the only guy in the USA importing Patrols from other countries.

I agree the idea of a sticky for say GQ info, MQ info, G60 info would be good since I'm sure people don't have enough time to keep answering the same questions.

We did this in the Suzuki forum.

I think this would be an outragously large job, though i will input where i can
My next question is:

How do we start?!!?

screwy

Great idea.

A LOT of work!

Happy to help out if I can. Would be a great resource.

Wendle wrote:big job dude! if you want to start collating the info that is already here, i will start adding my own, make it a sticky, and try and keep the whole thing managable and concise...

Not really that bad a task when you think of it .....

There are several ppl on OL and some of those "lurk" around the nissan section and are trully knowledgable when it comes to such tech issues.

What I would suggest may seem odd but I'll give it a wirl ....

Firstly the Moderators would need 3 or 4 "Assistant Moderators", each "assistant" would be in charge of a set model from the nissan range and its tech thread.
The Moderators would oversee the assistants, and would have full power over them as they currently do.

Individuals could post tech info directly into the respective thread or PM it to the Assistant Moderator for "sorting" and placing correctly within their respective thread.

Each thread would be a "sticky" and allways remain at the top of the Nissan section.

This system would ease the workload for the Nissan Moderators,
Would assist in training future moderators and not only for the Nissan section,
Would allow individuals to find their queerys answers much easier and faster than using the "search" button or placing yet another post.

Heres and example .....

RMP&O is selected as the Ass. Mod. for the section covering "160, G60, Y60, KL60, Y61". The "G Series" section contains 4 threads, one for each area, Engine, Transmission, Transfer, & Differentials.

I post up tech info I havent seen in the thread that may be of use to others

RMP&O either allows it to stay, corrects it, or deletes it as is required.

Simple

Where I can see some difficulties is in the actual structure of the OL board and the way the sections / folders are arranged. This may need input from Carl or Ruff as to whether this could be done. If we can have several sections under the nissan section then there shouldnt be any dramas ....

Oh CARL & RUFF ....



Kingy

p/s
My appologies to RMP&O for calling him a "Ass Mod" in my "example":D

Oh and I forgot to add .....

Selection of such "Ass Mods" could be done by either,
a poll,
by the current Nissan Moderator,
or by the powers to be, Carl & Ruff,
or we could of course call for volunteers but I belive there would be a flood of them .... then we would have to draw straws !!

good ideas/suggestions Kingy...I think it could work. I vote Kingy as the first ASS Mngr.!!

Maybe just start with a sticky thread for each type of Patrol model....ie 60 series 1960-1980, MQ/MK 160 series 1980-1988, GQ series Y60/Y160 1988-1997, GU series...

Get the threads started, make them sticky, cut and paste old posts with lot's of info to each sticky thread, let peeps add to it, see how it goes, take it from there.

At the least it will get rid of the same posts asking the same questions such as SOA on an MQ or diffs in a GQ or tranny upgrades in a MK or v8 conversion in any Patrol.

I definately think it could be very useful and I definately think many people would use it and I definately think it would work to self educate yourself on your truck. I also don't think this info is anywhere else on the net and this forum seems like the best place for it. This is the biggest, most active Nissan (Patrol) forum I know of anywhere on the net. OL also has some of the best informed and most educated people I have seen anywhere on the subject of Patrols. Plus it draws lot's of people to it from outside Australia who may never post but come here to learn a few things...

That is my 2 cents...actually since it my second post in the topic it is my 4 cents

RMP&O wrote:This is the biggest, most active Nissan (Patrol) forum I know of anywhere on the net. OL also has some of the best informed and most educated people I have seen anywhere on the subject of Patrols. Plus it draws lot's of people to it from outside Australia who may never post but come here to learn a few things...

That is my 2 cents...actually since it my second post in the topic it is my 4 cents

I wasnt supprised by this statement at all, when you surf the web on Nissan stuff this forum is way ahead in tech detail and by a long way.

What did supprise the hell out of me was the following thread...... I was almost embarrassed by it ......... to think ppl from the other side of the world are watching your work is a tad scary..... takes a bit of getting used to.

http://nissan4wheelers.com/eve/ubb.x?a= ... 2910729311

Click the above link .....
then click the OL link in the 4th post

There is also another link in the "nissan4whelers thread thats a bit further down .......
http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/b ... aniels.htm
another awsome set of pics !


I'm sure Carl & Ruff could setup folders within the nissan section..... maybe its time we asked ?

With an ever increasing number of members & guests it's high time we cleaned up our section to showcase to the world.

Kingy

Kingy....

I had to read your post 3 times before i got it, must be because it is Sunday am and my brain is slow. At first I thought you were talking about my work and it being scary because I don't know what the hell I am doing. But I get it now and my work not on the web much, and have not got past part 1 of SOA on my MQ.

So I see you have found N4W, congrats! While not a lot on Patrols there it is one of our best Nissan forums/sites on the USA end of the web. DR, Datz and few others on there are very well informed and great guys, plus they know a hell of a lot about wrenching.

Hate to tell you this if you don't like it but....you happen to be a Patrol guru. There is not many out there, even less on the web. Might be a lot of Patrol gurus in Australia but over here or over in Europe or even down in S.America there just isn't any. I met one in S.America but he don't speak english! He had worked for Nissan for over 30 years and the last 10 years runs his own shop. So there just ain't many out there and from where I am sitting the name Kingy is very fitting!

Glad you dig the Superior MQ. I did also, that is a hell of a lot fo flex on a leaf sprung truck. I think it was done excellent and that guy has an easy 6 feet of flex!! They advised me on my MQ build up and let me say the guys at Superior are very cool, very well inform and take the time to help a yank on the other side of the planet. You guys in OZ are lucky to have shops like that. Superior supplied me with info on how they got that MQ to flex so much and I would be happy to share it with you all. There is a few tricks in it that a guy like me would not have thought of....

With an ever increasing number of members & guests it's high time we cleaned up our section to showcase to the world.

I am fairly new around here but I do agree 100%. Some of you guys should be pretty proud of what you have done, what you are doing and showcasing it on the net. I have emailed 4-5 very good shops here in the USA about some of the tech on my Patrol, Jeep shops but they know their stuff. None of them replied to me...they could care less about a Patrol. The USA is Jeep country! I will do what I can to help the tech on the forum anyway I can.

Cheers!

well lets not all forget that we dont all drive patrols. anyway wouldnt it be easier to just create a sticky thread and make that an index, and have links to other threads where there has been a disscussion on how to raise MQ patrol, and i want more flex on my GQ, etc. index could be seperated into categories, ie: tyres, hubs, undercarrige, chassis, engine, interior, etc...

and as we find a topic that is useful we can add it, or a mod can add it to the sticky thread.


thats just my 2 cents

If the OWNERS here would allow each model should be represented by a sticky not in the Nissan thread but in a Bible on your truck section one higher in the BB directory.

This would allow a single section where you couldn't post in but reference too.

I would like if legal to have a PDF file of the technical manual online. Not sure if this is feasable (server space) leagal (in having a company's document online) or practical (can we find members with the manual and then means to convert it to PDF format in the first place)

Then with the manual online a series of formatted sub locked threads that are for info on common mods to each of the models and if neccesary how to's and pro's con's.

Model for's/against's in a honest appraisal format approved via the assistant mods and mods.

Not only Nissan but all trucks to be included. If there are niche models a person needs to sponsor it and take ownership of that threads development within the format pre approved by the main mod and ass mods.

What you get is commonality so that once you navigate one model all other thread navigation becomes intuitive (search does not always work)

So Section name (Your Trucks Bible)

Threads as follows;

Every truck model sponsored by a member/s

Glossary of technical terms (IFS, IRS, CV etc etc)

Posts within the threads

1st Tech manual link (could be offsite)

2nd synopsis of trucks strengths and weaknesses

3rd, links to important offsite info should include manufacturer and major common after market accessories as well as specialty offsite info.

4th Major problems and ways to rectify those within the model described,

5th and subsequent any member tech build ups subject to the approval of the original sponsor and Ass mods/Mods.


There is prolly a better way to do this ie not in BB format

Not wanting to hijack from this board, but this is why we have set up http://www.patrol4wd.org as a resource for Patrol owners. Its only new but has been set up to compliment all of the Patrol Yahoo groups.

Any technical submissions are welcome. email them to
Patrol4WD-owner@yahoogroups.com

Pix of your Patrol can be uploaded yourself to the My Patrol section on the site.
If we can get plenty of tech articles and FAQs there we can help cut the repeat questions that everyone is getting sick of on all forums.

stutter.....cough.....burp......

AJ wrote:Not wanting to hijack from this board, but this is why we have set up http://www.patrol4wd.org as a resource for Patrol owners. Its only new but has been set up to compliment all of the Patrol Yahoo groups.

Any technical submissions are welcome. email them to
Patrol4WD-owner@yahoogroups.com

Pix of your Patrol can be uploaded yourself to the My Patrol section on the site.
If we can get plenty of tech articles and FAQs there we can help cut the repeat questions that everyone is getting sick of on all forums.

There is nothing on there to start with.

Bazzle I find is extremely well informed on GQ matters and other and is an asset on any board especially on standard tech info.

It isn't going to populate itself if it does not have an audience.

I dropped the Yahoo patrol membership because it was turning to a Spamathon.

I am not trying to deflate the concept of Patrol4wd.org but if was to be sucessful those who came up with the idea and the means to put it up should have pre populated the site with something to look at first.

I know that if I have Patrol Question here I can pose it and get it answered in a day or two.

I think the point being is colation of the collective posted knowledge base that already exists into a easy to read and navigate format is what is required.

Singo17 wrote:
There is nothing on there to start with.

Bazzle I find is extremely well informed on GQ matters and other and is an asset on any board especially on standard tech info.

It isn't going to populate itself if it does not have an audience.

I dropped the Yahoo patrol membership because it was turning to a Spamathon.

I am not trying to deflate the concept of Patrol4wd.org but if was to be sucessful those who came up with the idea and the means to put it up should have pre populated the site with something to look at first.

I know that if I have Patrol Question here I can pose it and get it answered in a day or two.

I think the point being is colation of the collective posted knowledge base that already exists into a easy to read and navigate format is what is required.

Singo

Your comments are welcome as is any input. You are right about the content. Unfortunately the site had a crash a couple of weeks after it was started and the tech stuff was lost and needs to be reloaded.

Content wont happen overnight as its a huge task to go back through the archives of the various Patrol groups and pull out the good stuff. Any volunteers?

PM me if you want to get involved, or anyone wants to add comments or suggestions.

Wendle,

Have you spoken to Carl or Ruff yet about the possibilities of this idea ??

Kingy

There is a similar thing to this in the Daihatsu forum (if I am not missing the point), we have a series of FAQ's under a sticky at the top of the page.

Only problem is the amount of chit chat you have to wade through to find the tech sometimes.

V8Patrol wrote:Wendle,

Have you spoken to Carl or Ruff yet about the possibilities of this idea ??

Kingy

nah, i am still not too sure about the best way to go about it.
i don't think changing the physical structure of the forum is the way to go, cause if we start expecting that to happen then everyone, is gonna want changes made to things to suit their method of laying out the info, and fawk knows where it will end up..
i was thinking of making a locked sticky thread and setting up each reply to caontain the concise info on a particualr topic, as well as having links to the threads where it has been brought up. (i would have to do this myself, even if other people wrote the text out and PM'd it to me) so you could get the bare bones of a particular problem/modification/repair/whatever, and then if you still needed more info you could delve through the rest of the threads...

Keep the ideas flowing this is good, I have thought about this before but the sheer size of the task and the limited amount of time i have on this forum means just thowing up the idea for someone else to catch.

I believe this is how we will eventually go as the current format is messy, we just have to decide how and when

Ok ........ I'll put my hand up to do the MQ-MK series "bible"






I know I'll regret this

Any volunteers who wana help ?

V8Patrol listens to the silence

V8Patrol wrote:Ok ........ I'll put my hand up to do the MQ-MK series "bible"






I know I'll regret this

Any volunteers who wana help ?

V8Patrol listens to the silence

You've got Screwy

Is this the format you want?

http://www.patrol4wd.org/portal/alias__ ... fault.aspx

As I said previously, if you want to contribute anything to the Patrol4WD site contact us at Patrol4WD-owner@yahoogroups.com or PM me, Roly, Bazzle, Woopala or Truckster here on Outerlimits.

Hey guys, I own a terrano 1 which is the hybrid of a pathfinder and navara. D21 series, will start posting everything I have on the three vehicles as I have been amassing a pile of info, due to the possibilty of converting the torsion bar setup to a live axle system as in the patrols.

Do you guys want us to post just in here or PM someone so that they can collate the info
Also I will assume we will be posting technical specs only or do we want other information.
While mine is not a patrol and not as capable its a Nissan and a damm good one other than the piss weak front end.
Cheers

Ok it's started and up there for all to see .....

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=22197


flame suit on

i am going to sydney for a few days, when i get back i'll try and scratch something similar together for gq/mav..

awesome!!

A great forum just got better....

Thanks to Kingy, cheers!

Wendle wrote:i am going to sydney for a few days, when i get back i'll try and scratch something similar together for gq/mav..

I'll help if ya need it can I do .. "How to lift a MAV" ???

p/s at the title of your PM ... "biblical studies"

RMP&O wrote:I will do what I can to help the tech on the forum anyway I can.

Cheers!

well come on ......... your turn at the Bible