Outer Limits 4x4 Board

The debate has been glossed over in other topics a couple of times, but I thought that I would get a topic going debating the benefits of using one method over another (or even using both!).

Some arguments for solder include a better joining of wires and less bulk, however is the joint strength negated by quality crimps with a quality ratcheting tool? Crimps certainly are more convenient.
Also, it has been said that solder raises resistance, lowering efficiency and creating heat.
Both methods create a situation where multistrand wire's biggest advantage is lost, its flexibility.

So, what does everyone use, and why? Hearing from those who do this daily would be very interesting. I don't think there is a right or wrong way, but I'm sure there are times when one method would be preferred over the other, and visa versa.

So, debate!

I solder where I can cause I cant crimp for shit. Dunno if its the tools I'm using or just not doing it right. I've used some pretty cool crimper's at work but the connectors are completely different to automotive style blade or bullet connectors.

Anyone have any references on how to not crimp like a gimp?

I prefer to solder joints especially joins that are external on the car. It removes the unreliability of the crimped joint when it comes to mud, water and gunk that can get in and corrode it out. Another reason I prefer LED taillights (mine have always been hard wired in to the loom with soldered joints and heat shrink).

For large connections crimping is the go, but only with a decent bit of kit to crimp them with. What should happen with a crimped connection is the metal of the connector should flow through the wire, effectively excluding oxygen to the joint (= no corrosion) and mechanically locking the wire in the connector. The copper strands still have their flexibility as long as a supporting sleeve (heatshrink tube) is used over the joint there is no real issue with vibration affecting the strength of the connection. Sleeve should extend 3x the dia of the cable back from the beginning of the joint.

Anyone familiar with swaging of cables will be familiar with the concept.

Soldering heavy gauge cables is a bit of a problem as the heat travels up the copper of the wire and the solder can follow suit (often several inches), making a joint that is fragile in the core, effectively allowing work hardening the individual strands of the core to the point of failure if used in a vibrating area (aircraft/car/boat). As more and more strands fail in the core the outer strands end up taking the current, generating heat in extreme circumstances wicking the solder further up into the outer core and allowing work hardening the individual strands of the outer part of the cable (now mechanically weakened with the center strand failure). Center of core becomes "dry" of solder, remaining solder wicks up the outer strands and a similar degenerative process continues to the point of complete failure od the joint. Lesson - if you are going to solder connections, make sure there is absolutely NO movement of the wire and connection. (This was an issue with the RAAF at one time, my old man was the one that did the investigation)

DAMKIA wrote:Lesson - if you are going to solder connections, make sure there is absolutely NO movement of the wire and connection.

This is important with both crimping and soldering imho. These days I spend a lot more time taping etc after soldering (yes I solder where possible) to make sure that all my connections are in a loom in such a way that they can't vibrate or wobble. I am 100% sure this is good for their lifespan.

Both methods have there uses and merits.
A big dont is to solder wires THEN crimp.
The solder relaxes and the joint resistance goes up and also aids in corrossion.

If you must solder, do it AFTER crimping.

Bazzle

Done properly either one works well - having said that there are so many crap examples of both out there its easy to see why this thread is necessary.

Having said that, those horrible insulated Utilux style connectors ( the red/yellow/blue varieties ) are next to impossible to do properly especially when coup[led with the $3.95 "crimp" tools. You'd have more chance of a good connection using a hammer.

For both, if you have the RIGHT TOOLS, PARTS and knowledge then all will be well.

For those wanting quality connectors then i'd recomend the "weatherpack" type, certainly more expensive than garbage but do it once - do it right.

MightyMouse wrote:Having said that, those horrible insulated Utilux style connectors ( the red/yellow/blue varieties ) are next to impossible to do properly especially when coupled with the $3.95 "crimp" tools. You'd have more chance of a good connection using a hammer.

This.

Cheap red/blue/yellow connectors are crap, even with a decent crimp tool. Decent "double grip" connectors and the right tool can give a reasonable result, if they are crimped properly - this includes getting the bullet &/or inline joiners oriented correctly before crimping.

These days, I try to avoid them. Solder & heatshrink for permanent connections, multi-pole crimped connectors for some applications, or small Anderson Power-pole connections for 12V supply applications - crimp with a Utilux crimper, then solder.

Damkia has summed it up.

Crimping is better where there is vibration. As an example aircraft wiring is crimped. You'll also notice all the factory loom plugs on vehicles are crimped.

I crimp for external stuff (eg. engine bay) but will solder under the dash when the wire is part of a large loom and can be taped back into the loom (eg. wiring alarms etc).

I hardly solder at all anymore, there are that many good crimp connectors out there now it's not funny.

If I am going to solder the wires together, I always make sure the joint isn't going to rely on the solder for any mechanical strength.

By this I mean I will join the wires first (fig 8, "T" join etc) so they are tight and strong, then just solder them to stop the corrosion from getting in there.

I also use resin coated heatshrink if the join is exposed to the elements.

It has worked for me for many years. I don't solder any large cables though, about 10mm2 and bigger are all crimped.