Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Everyone loves to heap crap on "the other" car manufacturers - Toyota vs Nissan vs Landies vs Suzuki etc, but I keep hearing a few concerning things about Landrovers...

I have been thinking about getting a 110 Defender, but have heard that the TDi engines don't last, and that the axles are weeny.

Is this true?

What would I be looking at paying for a 5-8 year old one, with some fruit?
How much are parts?
Can you get them with AC?

First of all - some model details:

2007-now - 2.4 Ford Transit TD w 6-speed box
1999-2006 - 2.5 5cyl diesel (TD5) w 5 speed box
1993-1999 - 2.5 4cyl diesel (Tdi) w 5 speed box

So - looks like you are considering a TD5 model - which is a good choice IMO.

The Tdis are getting a bit old and starting to have bottom end issues, and some have needed soft heads replaced. Still a lot of happy owners though. A new Tdi head is ~$2k.

The TD5 seems to be a lot stronger. The only issues reported seem to be fairly minor - (and easily fixed) - oil contamination of injector loom, no loctite on some oil pump bolts, plastic head dowels breaking. There is a guy in belgium with a crazily tweaked TD5 which is still holding up.

The gearboxes and t-cases are strong and reliable.

Up till 2004(?) the rear axle was a salisbury/dana 60 - with modest but sufficiently strong 1.24" 24 spline axles. These can be upgraded easily to 1.5" 30 spliners if you need to.

The front axles are fine with anything up to 33" tyres, and up to 35's with upgraded CVs and a locked centre.

LOTS of axle upgrade options are available, for reasonable prices. However these are usually only needed if running lockers and large tyres.

The rear axle post 2004 is weak. You can retrofit a sals to a newer model.

In short - If you get a TD5 with a good service history, I am sure you will be happy. The newer "Puma" models with the TD4 transit engine, are very nice to drive, have a significantly improved dash and AC, a very nice 6-speed - however you seem to be a beta tester if you buy one of these. Probably only a good idea if it is new enough to still have a warranty.

Most parts are dirt cheap S/H. Some new parts can be expensive, such as TD5 injectors. However almost all parts can be bought very cheaply ex-uk (e.g. http://www.paddockspares.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and a few others) e.g. - A TD5 injector - $1500 each in AU, vs GBP225.

Yes they have AC - of varying effectiveness.

I would probably look at running nothing larger than 33s, and the TD5 certainly looks like it fits my time range.

Thanks for your input.

Just a note on the TD5 injector, they don't seem to go bad during their lives, they do seem to go bad if they have suffered a physical trauma.

lump_a_charcoal wrote:I would probably look at running nothing larger than 33s, and the TD5 certainly looks like it fits my time range.

Thanks for your input.

Quite a lot of us run 255/85-16s (33.3"). They fit straight on, and work well. No mods needed to run them.

I ran 33's for years on my 110 when it was stock standard, and never broke anything - despite plenty of 4x4ing. I have lockers F+R and upgraded axles, but only because I got them cheap.

How are they economy wise?

I've always wanted a defender but when I actually sat in one I got put right off. At the time I was closely looking at upgrading the disco and doing the research but actually sitting in one made it an easy decision for me. Not to say I wont ever buy one on impulse (a nice extreme across the road from the folks house ) but definitely not as a daily driver and not something I could get past the boss easily.

Defers do it for me in the looks department though, not as as the disco.

And the guys above will agree that anything you've ever wanted to know about land rovers can be found on AULRO if you want to do some in depth research.

stuee wrote:I've always wanted a defender but when I actually sat in one I got put right off. At the time I was closely looking at upgrading the disco and doing the research but actually sitting in one made it an easy decision for me. Not to say I wont ever buy one on impulse (a nice extreme across the road from the folks house ) but definitely not as a daily driver and not something I could get past the boss easily.

Defers do it for me in the looks department though, not as as the disco.

And the guys above will agree that anything you've ever wanted to know about land rovers can be found on AULRO if you want to do some in depth research.

Agree re AULRO.

Defenders do have a somewhat unique seating position, which people either seem to love or hate. You sit very upright, close to the door/side. The handbrake is also annoying for some.

I am 6'3" and I quite like the seating position. However the PO of mine did fit rails which move the seat up 1" and back 2". A like being able to look out the window easily offroad. The handbrake doesn't bother me, and I often use it as a foot rest on long trips. (Btw - you can fit a disco handbrake if you don't like it).

lump_a_charcoal wrote:How are they economy wise?

More economical than anything else of similar size. I don't own a TD5 - but think 9.5-13 L/100 is the rough ballpark.

Had a tallish friend take one for a test drive at a Dealership where they sell another brand. The salesman told him "you're too tall, you won't be buying one of these" and sure enough, after the test drive he was incredibly disappointed, as he'd had his heart set on one, but said to me afterwards that no matter how much he kept telling himself "I'll get used to it" he realised, that the salesman was right, and that the ergonomics are just plain wrong for anyone of above moderate height.
I didn't bother taking it for a drive after his comments.

But if that was their only problem, then some aftermarket seats might be a pretty cheap solution (though he also says the pedals are just all way too badly placed as well).

That's as far as I can comment on real world experience. Anything else about their reported great capability off-road straight from the factory etc, would all just be hearsay. But I believe them to be highly capable.

im just over 6.1 and have only ever owned rovers, LRS111, RR and now 110 cab chassis for the last 10 years. They are not great inside but for normal everyday driving ok. Like Ben I like the driving postion, straight back, high, short bonnet etc....

seats arent the problem, its their positon.... very close to the doors and no room to slide back in a ute.

test drive a couple to get familiar with them

Serg

Ezookiel wrote:Had a tallish friend take one for a test drive at a Dealership where they sell another brand. The salesman told him "you're too tall, you won't be buying one of these" and sure enough, after the test drive he was incredibly disappointed, as he'd had his heart set on one, but said to me afterwards that no matter how much he kept telling himself "I'll get used to it" he realised, that the salesman was right, and that the ergonomics are just plain wrong for anyone of above moderate height.
I didn't bother taking it for a drive after his comments.

But if that was their only problem, then some aftermarket seats might be a pretty cheap solution (though he also says the pedals are just all way too badly placed as well).

That's as far as I can comment on real world experience. Anything else about their reported great capability off-road straight from the factory etc, would all just be hearsay. But I believe them to be highly capable.

Was he looking at a wagon or a cab chassis? At 6'4" i find the wagon fine, but a cab chassis is a different kettle of fish

lump_a_charcoal wrote:How are they economy wise?

I can't give specific figures for a TD5 Defender, I have had other diesel LR's and they all have good economy in the low 10 litres per 100 km. I believe the TD5 to be similar.

Re seating position:
I'm a bit over 5' 10" - not as tall as some, but not short either.

Tall drivers with 110 wagons can use simple adaptors that move the seat rails back (truck cabs don't have the space for the seat to go back).

I have fitted aftermarket seats (truck cab) because I had them and the originals needed repairs. As the replacement seats were wider than the originals I moved the seat rails inboard a little so the doors could close - only needed to drill some holes in the seat box and move the nut plates/brackets to suit. I had 3 front seats instead of a centre console/cubby box - I had no need for the centre seat so removed it.

The handbrake lever can be moved - LRA sell a tapered spacer that kicks it at an angle, or others have used a disco brake lever. Personally I find it ok.

Bush65 wrote: I have fitted aftermarket seats (truck cab) because I had them and the originals needed repairs. As the replacement seats were wider than the originals I moved the seat rails inboard a little so the doors could close - only needed to drill some holes in the seat box and move the nut plates/brackets to suit. I had 3 front seats instead of a centre console/cubby box - I had no need for the centre seat so removed it.

What was it like taking the seats inboard. Do you feel you are sitting on an angle while driving? My gripe was not the handbrake (as it can be moved like you say) but the fact my elbow wanted to get personal with the B pillar but I could not see how the seat could be moved inboard a reasonable distance and still feel like I'm sitting straight on.

stuee wrote:

Bush65 wrote: I have fitted aftermarket seats (truck cab) because I had them and the originals needed repairs. As the replacement seats were wider than the originals I moved the seat rails inboard a little so the doors could close - only needed to drill some holes in the seat box and move the nut plates/brackets to suit. I had 3 front seats instead of a centre console/cubby box - I had no need for the centre seat so removed it.

What was it like taking the seats inboard. Do you feel you are sitting on an angle while driving? My gripe was not the handbrake (as it can be moved like you say) but the fact my elbow wanted to get personal with the B pillar but I could not see how the seat could be moved inboard a reasonable distance and still feel like I'm sitting straight on.

I didn't move the seats enough to make the elbow room so generous that it affected the driver's position relative to the wheel and pedals.

I believe I could have gone further and the driver position would still be ok, but my aim was to fit the seats with little modification (has to be engineered) - not to gain much extra elbow room. Had I gone further inboard I would have to attend to the handbrake lever, but would not have been a problem.

Bush65 wrote:

stuee wrote:

Bush65 wrote: I have fitted aftermarket seats (truck cab) because I had them and the originals needed repairs. As the replacement seats were wider than the originals I moved the seat rails inboard a little so the doors could close - only needed to drill some holes in the seat box and move the nut plates/brackets to suit. I had 3 front seats instead of a centre console/cubby box - I had no need for the centre seat so removed it.

What was it like taking the seats inboard. Do you feel you are sitting on an angle while driving? My gripe was not the handbrake (as it can be moved like you say) but the fact my elbow wanted to get personal with the B pillar but I could not see how the seat could be moved inboard a reasonable distance and still feel like I'm sitting straight on.

I didn't move the seats enough to make the elbow room so generous that it affected the driver's position relative to the wheel and pedals.

I believe I could have gone further and the driver position would still be ok, but my aim was to fit the seats with little modification (has to be engineered) - not to gain much extra elbow room. Had I gone further inboard I would have to attend to the handbrake lever, but would not have been a problem.

did you have to look far to find an engineer

Another tall driver that fits OK (into a crew cab)

I'm a touch under 6'2" and all legs. The seat has been raised 22mm and the seating position is excellent for me, much more comfortable on a trip than our GU Patrol.

In the Patrol I have knee and back problems if driving for an hour or more, none of which I get with the Defender.
The downside with the raised seat is that it's harder to see out the side window, you have to duck your head slightly to get a good view.

One thing that helps with the ergonomics in Defenders with the R380 is re-positioning the gear lever closer to the driver.
So many Deafeners I've seen or driven have the gear lever clocked either for LHD or just too far away. It's an easy fix to pull the tunnel, undo a nyloc nut and reposition the lever on the splines so it's right beside the steering wheel, close to hand.
Makes a huge difference to the driving experience rather than having to reach halfway across the cab to change gears.