Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Td42, manual, standard gearing/transfer, manual hubs, auto locker front, 3" lift, 275000ks

When I go off road and select 4H, the steering goes all over the place, shoots left and right and is heavy and hard to control. The Cvs, diff centre, swivel area, tie rods, arms are good.

About 70% of the time going from either 4L/4H back to 2H, I have to reverse about 10m to get it out of 4wd or it remains in 4H until I reverse or drive until a hub clicks and its fine. (Tried 2 pairs of hubs)

I have 2 mates with the same car and neither do this. Could this indicate something not releasing windup? Any ideas?? I have changed the fluid few times and no change.

Are they auto or manual hubs? you say you have to reverse and wait for the hubs to disconnect! if they are manual that should be happening!

I would look at your auto locker.

turbo gu wrote:Are they auto or manual hubs? you say you have to reverse and wait for the hubs to disconnect! if they are manual that should be happening!

I would look at your auto locker.

Manual hubs, it seems to come out of 4wd straight away when i reverse, dont think its linked to the hubs.

Auto locker is new and unfortunatly also did it before it was installed :(

drop out for front driveshaft then lock the front hubs and try it then and see what happens!

You haven't got a different ratio in the front have you? Or different tyre sizes front to rear?

Both my Cruisers had a detroit locker in the front and had the rear welded and I NEVER had issues with coming out of 4WD or the hubs unlocking.

BadMav wrote:You haven't got a different ratio in the front have you? Or different tyre sizes front to rear?

Both my Cruisers had a detroit locker in the front and had the rear welded and I NEVER had issues with coming out of 4WD or the hubs unlocking.

Nope I have 33s on every corner same tread. Im assuming ratios are the same, bought car stock and have done everything to it myself.

Hubs dont unlock, if i drive on the road knowing its still in 4wd (put shifter to 2h) then eventually i hear a thud from a hub and its all good again?

Ok so im still looking around to find out this issue.

I had the entire front end apart when putting in the locker, and did swivel hubs and bearings ect, and everything was fine.

So it doesn't leave much but the transfer??. Is there any adjustments or tests that can be made?? Maybe I should call a gearbox place and ask them.

Is there much work envolved in pulling the T case off ??

turbo gu wrote:drop out for front driveshaft then lock the front hubs and try it then and see what happens!

did you try this???

did yo say its an uto lokka??

DEZ wrote:

BadMav wrote:You haven't got a different ratio in the front have you? Or different tyre sizes front to rear?

Both my Cruisers had a detroit locker in the front and had the rear welded and I NEVER had issues with coming out of 4WD or the hubs unlocking.

Nope I have 33s on every corner same tread. Im assuming ratios are the same, bought car stock and have done everything to it myself.

Hubs dont unlock, if i drive on the road knowing its still in 4wd (put shifter to 2h) then eventually i hear a thud from a hub and its all good again?

Mate I'd be checking your ratios front and rear, easy to do. Mark the prop shaft, jack up both wheels (front or rear), with the box in neutral and in 2H with hubs locked in. Turn a wheel 10 full turns and count the number of times the prop shaft goes round, (with the locker in the front , both fronts should turn together, same for LSD rear). 41 would be 4.11:1, 43 would be 4.3:1 and so on.

Good luck

the shooting from side to side sounded like what mine used to do with the auto locker, its called torque steer and really its normal with auto lockers cause of how they work

as for not unlocking on you i would be checking the hubs if its the hub that is making the thud sound, prob not running back on the cam properlly.

If it's hard to steer in 4x4, it probably has play somewhere in suspension or steering.
Mine MQ did that when u-bolts came loose on one side.

Did you set the clearances correctly for the auto locker. What you describe is typically and auto lokka working intermittently in 4H. I had a similar issue, took the lokka out, replaced the springs and dowels as they were broken and reset the clearances. No problem anymore. A front auto lokka is very heavy and "walks" around when in 4H.
Al

BadMav wrote: Mate I'd be checking your ratios front and rear, easy to do. Mark the prop shaft, jack up both wheels (front or rear), with the box in neutral and in 2H with hubs locked in. Turn a wheel 10 full turns and count the number of times the prop shaft goes round, (with the locker in the front , both fronts should turn together, same for LSD rear). 41 would be 4.11:1, 43 would be 4.3:1 and so on.

Good luck

Good info mate il check it out when I can thanks.

turbo gu wrote: drop out for front driveshaft then lock the front hubs and try it then and see what happens!


did you try this???

Both front wheels turn the same way, feels fine. goes into 4H and 4L easy and comes out fine. What do you mean " for front driveshaft" ??

MyGQ wrote:the shooting from side to side sounded like what mine used to do with the auto locker, its called torque steer and really its normal with auto lockers cause of how they work

as for not unlocking on you i would be checking the hubs if its the hub that is making the thud sound, prob not running back on the cam properlly.

Yep auto lokka, normal ay how did you fix or avoid this? It's quite annoying. As for hubs I have tryed tried 2 sets and both did it, removing A LOT of the grease from one fixed it, but make it a pita to lock/unlock.

I also called a diff/gearbox place and they said if I have to reverse to get out of 4wd, its probably just age and wind up due to lokka ect and replacing transfer will do nothing as it does nothing to release wind up.

albundy wrote:Did you set the clearances correctly for the auto locker. What you describe is typically and auto lokka working intermittently in 4H. I had a similar issue, took the lokka out, replaced the springs and dowels as they were broken and reset the clearances. No problem anymore. A front auto lokka is very heavy and "walks" around when in 4H.
Al

I removed centre myself and took it to a diff shop to fit. As far as I know it went in fine. It makes its clicking noises around corners when hubs locked on the road and theres no noises or vibrations at high speed with hubs locked??

the shooting you can't avoid its part of the auto locker design, since the right side wheel takes up all the power initaly (thats why auto lockers break alot of right side CV's too). its more a case of learning to drive the car properlly. I learnt not to jump on and off the throttle too quick as that causes it but ease it on and off more than anything

this is interesting, i was going to ask a similar question on behalf of my old man.

his GU with auto locker, auto hubs, drives fine in 4H, but he too has to reverse to get it back into 2H. only a tiny tiny bit though.

if he doesnt he will be driving down the road and all of a sudden the car will throw itself sideways, as if hes reefed on the wheel.

i put it down to the auto locker, but trying to work out why it does this? and what we can do to fix it, as its pretty interesting with a van on the back that sways too much already

auto lockers and auto hubs are a pain in the butt, Since the locker is working full time any slight movement in the rear tailshaft will cause both cv's to spind and the nature of the auto hubs is when the CV moves the auto part rides up a cam and locks the hubs in. in an open front it don't happen too often cause of the nature of the open setup, but when one CV moves in an auto locker the other does too and will lock it in on you

as i said when your in 4WD mode when on power and backing off hard it will throw you and there is nothing you can do about it, its not a setting or a spacing issue its how they work. if you want more control you will want an Air or E-Locker.

Ive got the same issue as yours. As l don't think its your auto locker.I tried new and used genuine hubs x4 sets, New and used genuine cvs including long fields and yuri x3 sets,x3 sets of new and used axles, Had the arb locker striped and inspected by ARB. They couldn't find any thing so i put the diff back together with new parts and it continued to make the loud thud through the front diff as well as pull to the right while in low range 4by. The only thing left to do is the transfer case. I Will let you know how i go and hope you do the some for me. Mine is a 90 gq diesel wagon what year is yours ?

i dont think the transfer would cause the issue, not to make it pull to one side or the other, how could it?

love ke70 wrote:i dont think the transfer would cause the issue, not to make it pull to one side or the other, how could it?

x2 - no doubt, all drive comes out of the transfer through 1 shaft so it cant bias one side, the diff splits side to side.

not coming out of 4wd then could definitely be the transfer.

but ill be curious to hear when you find out what it is.

tailpipes wrote:Ive got the same issue as yours. As l don't think its your auto locker.I tried new and used genuine hubs x4 sets, New and used genuine cvs including long fields and yuri x3 sets,x3 sets of new and used axles, Had the arb locker striped and inspected by ARB. They couldn't find any thing so i put the diff back together with new parts and it continued to make the loud thud through the front diff as well as pull to the right while in low range 4by. The only thing left to do is the transfer case. I Will let you know how i go and hope you do the some for me. Mine is a 90 gq diesel wagon what year is yours ?

Yeah mate let me know how you go. As you said theres not much more except the transfer, do you get any problems coming out of 4wd at all? Mines a 95, dont think there was any changes though.

MyGQ wrote:auto lockers and auto hubs are a pain in the butt, Since the locker is working full time any slight movement in the rear tailshaft will cause both cv's to spind and the nature of the auto hubs is when the CV moves the auto part rides up a cam and locks the hubs in. in an open front it don't happen too often cause of the nature of the open setup, but when one CV moves in an auto locker the other does too and will lock it in on you

as i said when your in 4WD mode when on power and backing off hard it will throw you and there is nothing you can do about it, its not a setting or a spacing issue its how they work. if you want more control you will want an Air or E-Locker.

Yeah ok that would explain the auto locker, but 'Tailpipes' has simular problem with an air locker hmmm.

Just thinking outside the box for a moment, what are the brakes like, I mean you haven't got a lazy or sticky cylinder on one side?

This question is for both DEZ and tailpipes.

I've never seen this or experienced this because of a locker, hubs or transfer case. The pulling to one side you describe has to be some sort of braking effect on that side, whether it be dodgy bearings, sticky brakes or low tyre pressure. The "not disengaging out of 4wd" has to be binding of the drivetrain whether it be diff ratios or tyre size/wear difference front to rear or simply turning a corner while engaged.

Yeap,When it first started happening i thought the same thing the brakes so i put in new stainless lines, new rotors, reconded calipers and booster the only thing left on the diff that isn't new is the tie rod but i cart see why that would effect it. I can't see how the tcase would course the truck to pull of side to side but its the only item left untouched?????????????????? ARB stripped and inspected the diff they could not fault it. Its a real head fuck?????????????

BadMav wrote:Just thinking outside the box for a moment, what are the brakes like, I mean you haven't got a lazy or sticky cylinder on one side?

This question is for both DEZ and tailpipes.

I've never seen this or experienced this because of a locker, hubs or transfer case. The pulling to one side you describe has to be some sort of braking effect on that side, whether it be dodgy bearings, sticky brakes or low tyre pressure. The "not disengaging out of 4wd" has to be binding of the drivetrain whether it be diff ratios or tyre size/wear difference front to rear or simply turning a corner while engaged.

New front brake lines, but never had an issue with pulling to one side. I can brake hard not holding the steering wheel all the way down to zero and be straight. I will be checking those ratios when I get a chance.

tailpipes wrote:Yeap,When it first started happening i thought the same thing the brakes so i put in new stainless lines, new rotors, reconded calipers and booster the only thing left on the diff that isn't new is the tie rod but i cart see why that would effect it. I can't see how the tcase would course the truck to pull of side to side but its the only item left untouched?????????????????? ARB stripped and inspected the diff they could not fault it. Its a real head .?????????????

Mate, just read in another thread that someone had a bent caliper bolt, and the caliper would bind on the it causing the piston to not retract the caliper properly. perhaps this is something to look at.



Any progress DEZ?