Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Is it worth upgrading to heavy duty torsions, or just wind them up?

It's for a Triton, but I see that as irrelevant.

I'm adjusting for accessory sag (20mm-ish) plus going up probably 2" and fitting bigger tyres (up 2 sizes). I'm happy winding up for the sag, but if going further, should I upgrade?

Personally I'd rather just a body lift, but dual airbags say no.

Thoughts?

My personal opinion is that, unless you're fitting a winch, don't fit heavier torsion bars. If you run out of travel, index the bars.

My Paj is now 16 years old, has had a steel bullbar since before I bought it, and a second battery for about 7 years / 100k km and the factory torsion bars are still going strong.

OK yeah. Accessories are ARB Bar, Aldispec wench, lights.

Oh, and fishing rod holders.

I found that HD bars on my rodeo back in the day mad a big difference to the ride quality, fitted with arb bar no winch, wound to 2" above standard

don't wind up it will ride like shit

virtha21 wrote:don't wind up it will ride like shit

Only if it's done by somebody who doesn't know what they're doing.

-Scott- wrote:

virtha21 wrote:don't wind up it will ride like shit

Only if it's done by somebody who doesn't know what they're doing.

exactly, id stick with standard bars, re index and then if still not happy, buy some HD ones. play around for $0 before splashing out a few hundred

Generally, larger diameter torsion bars equals stiffer springs. Given that you have (slighlty) heavier loading on the bars with your bullbar, winch or whatever, you probably need slightly stiffer spring rates. However, the extra weight of the bullbar/winch etc is probably only about 5 to 10% of the original loading on the front suspension, so I would tend to leave the original bars and index them. Be aware that by cranking the bars up, you will run out of suspension travel before you hit the bump stops. Other people have commented about better ride quality, but you don't know what they had before - was the car bottoming out on the bump stops, did they replace shock absorbers etc?

As date says....


What's the problem you want to fix ? if the spring RATE is too soft then HD bars... if the rate is ok but ride height has sagged then index/adjust the stock bars. Different problems - different solutions

In either case cranking the bars JUST to get height without consideration of the vehicles droop travel is unwise.

I recommend replacing the bars if you have a winch as the originals will sag off quicker with the new weight on them. If you want you can just keep adjusting the original ones as they sag or spring for the new ones and not have to worry. You wont get 50mm out of your vehicle though maybe more like 35mm. Just make sure you leave about 10mm of clearence between your top bump stop for up travel.

Whats the easiest way to index the bars?
jack it up to the appropriate height plus a fraction and then put them back in?

remove the adjuster off the rear and put it back on 1 tooth around from where you removed it.

Mu biggest concern would be that when clocked the torsion bar may go past its elastic deformation limits and end up permanently sagged anyway (into plastic zone). Ultimately this would lead to breakage of the bar through work hardening.

Right sized bar would carry the weight it is meant to without being overstressed.

DAMKIA wrote:Mu biggest concern would be that when clocked the torsion bar may go past its elastic deformation limits and end up permanently sagged anyway (into plastic zone). Ultimately this would lead to breakage of the bar through work hardening.

Undoubtedly possible. I've never heard of it happening, and have NFI how to calculate the probability.

DAMKIA wrote:Right sized bar would carry the weight it is meant to without being overstressed.

Which is why I believe that a winch (hanging in front of the front axle) should receive uprated bars, but anything else doesn't need anything heavier than stock. In my Paj, from unloaded to exceeding GVM, the 16 year old factory front only drops about 5mm. The rear, with heavy duty springs, drops about 20mm. The rear needs uprated springs because I bounce it over rough country with a great deal of load on them. The fronts don't see much more than unladen load, so don't need a heavier spring. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it!

If you really want to replace the torsion bars, by all means do so. But don't bother with stiffer springs if you don't have a winch.

mutilated wrote:I recommend replacing the bars if you have a winch as the originals will sag off quicker with the new weight on them. If you want you can just keep adjusting the original ones as they sag or spring for the new ones and not have to worry. You wont get 50mm out of your vehicle though maybe more like 35mm. Just make sure you leave about 10mm of clearence between your top bump stop for up travel.

bull shit, depends how much he choses to trim the droop stop and how much down travel he wants

and more BS on the last bit, top ones a droop stop, and in no way limits the suspensions up travel (contral arms moving up), would have thought someone in a suspension shop would have known that

The problem on the Triton is not how much you can lift the front its how much you can lift the rear. As I do work in a suspension shop and have been a mechanic for 15 years im pretty sure I know what im on about. The Triton will get a drive line vibration above about 35mm due to the driveshaft centre bearing. You can turn the centre bearing upside down and you will reduce the issue slightly but i guess you already knew that as you seem to know all.

Yep, more like 35mm max in the back, could push 50mm but you won't like it. D40 Navara's have a similar issue. Best dual cab IFS is the hilux to get 50mm.

mutilated wrote:The problem on the Triton is not how much you can lift the front its how much you can lift the rear. As I do work in a suspension shop and have been a mechanic for 15 years im pretty sure I know what im on about. The Triton will get a drive line vibration above about 35mm due to the driveshaft centre bearing. You can turn the centre bearing upside down and you will reduce the issue slightly but i guess you already knew that as you seem to know all.

how does the triton drive line differ to a pajero drive line?

and whats your answer to your statement that droop stops limiting up travel?

As for the difference between the Pajero and the Triton im not sure but have not had an issue in a Pajero only a Triton (which is what he has).

On my other post after re-reading it I should have said bottom bump stop for down travel. Its not critical but will give a more comfortable ride if there is a clearence and the bars are not fighting against the rubber stop as well as the vehicle weight.

mutilated wrote:As for the difference between the Pajero and the Triton im not sure but have not had an issue in a Pajero only a Triton (which is what he has).

On my other post after re-reading it I should have said bottom bump stop for down travel. Its not critical but will give a more comfortable ride if there is a clearence and the bars are not fighting against the rubber stop as well as the vehicle weight.

I'm sure these things differ from vehicle to vehicle, and I'm not real familiar with the Triton front end, but Gen 2 Pajero droop (down) travel is limited by a pair of rubber stops on the upper control arm. Bump (up) travel is limited by one large stop lower down, which tends to confuse discussions.

AFAIK, later Pajeros have the same arrangement for bump stops, but droop travel is limited by the shock absorber.