Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Do wheel spacers break wheel studs? I've heard of it happening and I'm trying to work out if its isolated incidents or pretty common.

They'll be on a GQ patrol used for flat track racing, so I'm going to be rough with them and there'll be jumping.

Depends on how they're designed & installed.

Done wrong, yes, they can be the cause of broken wheel studs.

Regardless of the design, using wheel spacers, and even offset rims put more stress on the studs. (as well as the rest of the axle) If you're considering either i'd suggest replacing all of the studs given that they are probably old and have been over tightened many times. Then make sure to torque the nuts up to what they should be.

oldmate wrote:Regardless of the design, using wheel spacers, and even offset rims put more stress on the studs. (as well as the rest of the axle) If you're considering either i'd suggest replacing all of the studs given that they are probably old and have been over tightened many times. Then make sure to torque the nuts up to what they should be.

...and "tighter is not better" is the rule.

They are designed for a particular working torque, which incorporates expansion loads and thermal derating. Overdoing it puts you on the slippery slope to stud failure. (tighten, stretch, over tighten, stretch more, over tighten, stretch more, over tighten, stretch more, over tighten, SNAP!)

Ditto for rims too. The tapered holes can open up leading to failure in steelies, and the metallic matrix of alloys can be crushed, both leading to the stud holes ending up larger than needed, and wheels falling off at the least opportune time. If the tapers of the wheel nuts hit the WMS then all you are doing is placing tension on the studs without any extra retaining ability being transferred to the rim.

General rule is go with the least specified torque, ie., for 80 ft.lb for your alloy wheels an 100 ft.lb recommended stud torque from vehicle manufacturer, go for 80 ft.lb. (especially with aluminium the expansion coefficient is greater and this is the reason they specify the lower torque to accommodate the "snugging up" from expansion.

With what your planning on doing anything can and some times happens. Jumping cars puts a lot of pressure and extra force on everything on your car. The tires/wheel/studs and suspension just takes the grunt of it. That said adding width to your wheel base puts more pressure one everything to perform the way they are designed. So adding width but spacers or flipped rims will cause premature failure. And like I always say things that fail more often then not fail when you are pushing them and that is normaly at higher speeds and when a bad accident can happen.

On the flip side to that is your jumping the car a wider track will make it safer and give a greater stability on take off and landing making it safer.

I would do as the other boys have already said replace all your studs.
I would not run spacers but I would run a flipped rim or high offset rim.
I would maybe look at lowering your center of gravity to help with the jumps.
After all Patrol diffs are already fairly wide as is.

YES, If you want to run spacers dont use alloy ones, go for cast steel. Different expansion rates between your hub and spacer will result in alloy spacers coming loose. I lost a rear wheel at 80kph not fun especially so as I had drum brake rear end and the drum went with the wheel so I had no brakes either.
Personaly I would go for flipped rims, I ran these for over a year with no dramas, my wheel studs were inline with the inside edge of the tyre. This was all on a GQ ute

Josh_525 wrote:YES, If you want to run spacers dont use alloy ones, go for cast steel. Different expansion rates between your hub and spacer will result in alloy spacers coming loose. I lost a rear wheel at 80kph not fun especially so as I had drum brake rear end and the drum went with the wheel so I had no brakes either.
Personaly I would go for flipped rims, I ran these for over a year with no dramas, my wheel studs were inline with the inside edge of the tyre. This was all on a GQ ute

Thanks, that was actually my next question, whether to go alloy or steel. I see snake racing sells billet steel wheel spacers and just about everyone else sells alloy. I was going to ask if the extra price is justified for the billet steel. I think that might be the path i'll head down.

on a GQ i believe there is more chance of snapping the stub axle off the knuckle than snapping the wheel studs off with a hard landing?

I don't see such a major problem with the snake racing wheel spacers. Sure they introduce another set of bolts into the setup which can be viewed as a problem but they don't put any more stress on the axles/suspension that huge offset rims or even flipped rims?

I think alot of negative experience with wheel spacers come from using these style:

Ive been running 3" wheel spacers for over 2 years now and have never broken a stud.

They have broken alot of other things though lol

Z()LTAN wrote:Ive been running 3" wheel spacers for over 2 years now and have never broken a stud.

They have broken alot of other things though lol

Hey I know it was awhile ago but do remember any change to the feel of the steering with the 3 inch spacers? How did the handling change at higher speeds (80km plus)?

Josh_525 wrote:YES, If you want to run spacers dont use alloy ones, go for cast steel. Different expansion rates between your hub and spacer will result in alloy spacers coming loose.

So if your theory is correct every car with alloy wheels is in danger of them falling off.

Josh_525 wrote: I lost a rear wheel at 80kph not fun especially so as I had drum brake rear end and the drum went with the wheel so I had no brakes either.

Spacers go between drum and wheel so if the wheel/spacer/drum left town the spacer didn't fail. Something else did.. How is this a relevant point for the virtues of spacers?


I have run 38mm alloy spacers for nearly 3 years and NEVER had a single nut come loose. Correctly torqued up they will not come loose, just like any wheelnuts.

Yom wrote:on a GQ i believe there is more chance of snapping the stub axle off the knuckle than snapping the wheel studs off with a hard landing?

I don't see such a major problem with the snake racing wheel spacers. Sure they introduce another set of bolts into the setup which can be viewed as a problem but they don't put any more stress on the axles/suspension that huge offset rims or even flipped rims?

I think alot of negative experience with wheel spacers come from using these style:

I had two Snake Racing 2 inch wheel spacers break on my Patrol (not the wheel studs) and the highest speed it ever did was 30km/h yet other then a CV i'd never broken anything else. They seem to crack after a period of time around the studs.

I would never run them again.

Cheers Mick.

Mick. wrote:

Yom wrote:on a GQ i believe there is more chance of snapping the stub axle off the knuckle than snapping the wheel studs off with a hard landing?

I don't see such a major problem with the snake racing wheel spacers. Sure they introduce another set of bolts into the setup which can be viewed as a problem but they don't put any more stress on the axles/suspension that huge offset rims or even flipped rims?

I think alot of negative experience with wheel spacers come from using these style:

I had two Snake Racing 2 inch wheel spacers break on my Patrol (not the wheel studs) and the highest speed it ever did was 30km/h yet other then a CV i'd never broken anything else. They seem to crack after a period of time around the studs.

I would never run them again.

Cheers Mick.

Mick,

Perhaps snake racing spacers are just shitty quality?

A properly engineered spacer should not crack.

Yom wrote:

Mick. wrote:

Yom wrote:on a GQ i believe there is more chance of snapping the stub axle off the knuckle than snapping the wheel studs off with a hard landing?

I don't see such a major problem with the snake racing wheel spacers. Sure they introduce another set of bolts into the setup which can be viewed as a problem but they don't put any more stress on the axles/suspension that huge offset rims or even flipped rims?

I think alot of negative experience with wheel spacers come from using these style:

I had two Snake Racing 2 inch wheel spacers break on my Patrol (not the wheel studs) and the highest speed it ever did was 30km/h yet other then a CV i'd never broken anything else. They seem to crack after a period of time around the studs.

I would never run them again.

Cheers Mick.

Mick,

Perhaps snake racing spacers are just shitty quality?

A properly engineered spacer should not crack.

I'm kind of thinking the same thing as I don't rate many of there products. I'll still never run them again though for the reasons others have mentioned above.

Your putting strain on things that are really important like wheels,wheel studs bearings etc and if one of these fails at speed your in serious sh!t. I couldn't see a problem running them on low speed comps like rock crawling etc.

Cheers Mick.

Mick. wrote:Your putting strain on things that are really important like wheels,wheel studs bearings etc and if one of these fails at speed your in serious sh!t. I couldn't see a problem running them on low speed comps like rock crawling etc.

Cheers Mick.

If they're done properly, wheel spacers shouldn't place extra strain on wheel studs or (I think?) wheels. Bearings, yes (well, front wheels - I expect less so for rear wheels) and extra strain on steering components. Which I believe would be the same for deep dish/flipped rims.

-Scott- wrote:

Mick. wrote:Your putting strain on things that are really important like wheels,wheel studs bearings etc and if one of these fails at speed your in serious sh!t. I couldn't see a problem running them on low speed comps like rock crawling etc.

Cheers Mick.

If they're done properly, wheel spacers shouldn't place extra strain on wheel studs or (I think?) wheels. Bearings, yes (well, front wheels - I expect less so for rear wheels) and extra strain on steering components. Which I believe would be the same for deep dish/flipped rims.

I agree. A 2" wheel spacer on a factory rim will put no more stress on the axle assembly or steering components than a steel rim with 2" greater offset than standard. Extra stress on wheel studs is debatable I would argue due to there being a machined face squished up against both wheel and hub mounting surfaces. I have no doubt there would be an increase but by how much? As it is the GQ and GU have a wheel spacer type arrangement on the front end?

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Snake Racing just don't make very good gear. I have never used any it myself but they are not always spoken too highly of up here either.

I have run 3in wheel spacers on front and rear axles for the past 5yrs never once (touch wood) have i broken wheel studs and im running a 11inch rim with big offset and 42's... In this time i also have only ever broken one rear axle... but I knows other that have broke heaps of them... just take a look at the Big white Fridge he snapped all 6 studs in 2009 Tuff Trucks at once...

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Z()LTAN wrote:Ive been running 3" wheel spacers for over 2 years now and have never broken a stud.

They have broken alot of other things though lol

Hey I know it was awhile ago but do remember any change to the feel of the steering with the 3 inch spacers? How did the handling change at higher speeds (80km plus)?

Yeah mate it makes the scrub radius real long so its going to effect handling a fair bit. U feel it the most in reverse going around a corner.

Now that im running hydro assist steering i feel nothing anymore.

Im changing to wider axles next year and will be putting the spacers on again. I love em

I ran 3" wheel spacers and busted all 6 studds on the passenger side front wheel after 6months.... did a fair amount of damage, just glad i was doing 3kph when it let go.

I will never run them on my daily rims but have no probs running them on bush rims.

I would say that one of my studs broke a while b4 and that slowly set things off.. for all i know i could of been driving round with 3 studs holding the spacers on for months!

The biggest prob is u cant see weather the studs are ok unless u pull the wheel off.

at least with big offset rims u can visually inspect them and see that they are still there!

EDIT: I was only running STD GXL rims with the spacers

Z()LTAN wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Z()LTAN wrote:Ive been running 3" wheel spacers for over 2 years now and have never broken a stud.

They have broken alot of other things though lol

Hey I know it was awhile ago but do remember any change to the feel of the steering with the 3 inch spacers? How did the handling change at higher speeds (80km plus)?

Yeah mate it makes the scrub radius real long so its going to effect handling a fair bit. U feel it the most in reverse going around a corner.

Now that im running hydro assist steering i feel nothing anymore.

Im changing to wider axles next year and will be putting the spacers on again. I love em

BIGGER OFFSET RIMS WOULD HAVE THE SAME HANDLING EFFECTS, WOULDN'T THEY??

CHEERS
DAVE

BIGDAVET86 wrote:

Z()LTAN wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Z()LTAN wrote:Ive been running 3" wheel spacers for over 2 years now and have never broken a stud.

They have broken alot of other things though lol

Hey I know it was awhile ago but do remember any change to the feel of the steering with the 3 inch spacers? How did the handling change at higher speeds (80km plus)?

Yeah mate it makes the scrub radius real long so its going to effect handling a fair bit. U feel it the most in reverse going around a corner.

Now that im running hydro assist steering i feel nothing anymore.

Im changing to wider axles next year and will be putting the spacers on again. I love em

BIGGER OFFSET RIMS WOULD HAVE THE SAME HANDLING EFFECTS, WOULDN'T THEY??

CHEERS
DAVE

YES IT WOULD!

i suppose what i was asking was, is there any advantage in using offset rims as opposed to wheel spacers? I need either, to stop the tyres from scrubbing on the radius rods at the moment, and i was about to get some spacers, the cheap and easy option and retains to factory rims for a more 'stock' appearance.

Cheers

spacers are illegal for road use.

Get offset rims

Z()LTAN wrote:spacers are illegal for road use.

Get offset rims

offset rims are also illegal if they increase the wheeltrack more than the allowable limit depending on your state

Z()LTAN wrote:spacers are illegal for road use.

Get offset rims

The 35's arn't legal, neither is the 4" lift, but with the canvas canopy on and the stock rims, its not till you get up close that it looks big. So i was hoping to keep the stockies to keep that look going. From what i hear the spacers are just as safe so I was hoping that i wouldn't have to get new rims. Appart from the extra offset are they noticable at a glance, keeping in mind they will only be 38 or 50mm.

Cheers

BIGDAVET86 wrote:they will only be 38 or 50mm.

They will be noticeable as your locking hub will sit almost flush with your (front) wheelnuts. Anyone who knows about spacers will spot them pretty easily.
I run 38mm spacers on my bush car but for road use If I were you I'd fit white sunraysias with the needed offset. They look plain enough and don't attract coppers like black rims do.

want33s wrote:

BIGDAVET86 wrote:they will only be 38 or 50mm.

If I were you I'd fit white sunraysias with the needed offset. They look plain enough and don't attract coppers like black rims do.

That's a bit racist!