Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey all,

looking into Hyd cylinders and pumps, like the porta power stuff. Looking for a press project. what brands are good to look at. I know of:

enerpac
spx power team

cheers,
Serg

Hey Serg,

I've used both and can recommend them, Blackwoods has a good range to choose from.

Eric

THE 109 wrote:Hey Serg,

I've used both and can recommend them, Blackwoods has a good range to choose from.

Eric

Thanks Eric,

I have experinced some of Blackwoods outrageous prices before and no longer will deal with them.

Ill be looking at Ebay USA as there is heaps there and pretty well priced. Just have to sort shipping

cheers,
Serg

G'day Serg.

I have used both brands extensively on some extremely heavy duty operations 600ton +, And can't fault either.

Although for all the bigger things it has allways been enerpac gear.
We also use SPX power team's hy-torque (Hyrdraulic torque gear) Wich will crank upto nearly 8,000 Ft. Lb of torque, and we have never had a problem with that, Gets used a cr@p load on some huge flanges, and around 750 degree pipework.

So either brand is good, Allthough for a press set up I would be leaning towards enerpac.

Cheers
Jono

Thanks Johno,

600t that would one big arse press....haha

looking around the 25t-30t range

I already have a 10t single acting cylinder and an air/hyd pump for my bender by spx. But I dont think that pump will do 25t-30t

ive looked at the P84 pump and RR3014 cylinder....(enerpac)

cheers,
Serg

No problems.

I just had a look through the enerpac bible and looks like quite a good set up you have planned.

Haha, Yeah 600T would be a mean press. But when you need a franna to put the ram into place it would became quite a PITA.

Yes, Like I said I could never fault the power team gear we have at work, But for all the heavy duty stuff we have allways used the enerpac gear. Just what the company buys for those situations I suppose.

There is another company, we have Just paid $25,000 for a set of Hydraulic flange spreaders.. Awesome piece of kit! But I am struggling to remember the name of them.

it isnt Simplex is it Johno??? green in colour

Serg

Try http://www.kempe.com.au

I have been using them for pneumatic stuff but they do hydraulics

They have offices thoughout Oz & O/seas

we use power team, have 4 of them, 1 for the high torque which with attachments does 12,000 ft/lb, 2 portable elec/hyd units that do up to 200ton portable rams and an air/hyd which also does the 200ton rams, just slower. they cost work about $2500 and weve had a few issues throughout the year but they all get used every day.

uninformed wrote:Thanks Johno,

600t that would one big arse press....haha

looking around the 25t-30t range

I already have a 10t single acting cylinder and an air/hyd pump for my bender by spx. But I dont think that pump will do 25t-30t

ive looked at the P84 pump and RR3014 cylinder....(enerpac)

cheers,
Serg

The pump you have should be ok to use (10,000psi), its just a larger dia cylinder to get 20-30T.

Depends on what your doing with the press, but sometimes a hand pump is prefered for 'gentle' operations.

uninformed wrote:it isnt Simplex is it Johno??? green in colour

Serg

Nope, not that I can remember
I go back into the workshop today, So I will have a look and get back to you.

heading towards SPX power team, as I alread have the air/hyd pump and 1 10t long stoke cylinder....now looking at 55t cyl and 2speed hand pump. waiting to get prices back from Oz suppliers to compare with Ebay USA prices....

the quotye I got on the Enerpac P-84 was $1670+GST and the RR-3014 was $2600+GST

if I can get the sellers to ship to OZ they will smoke those prices

cheers,
Serg

damn this thread makes my head hurt?

so what do you want? and what are you making?
even some basics:
tonnage -
stroke -
available power supply -

please fill in the blanks (3)

I was going to mention to Serg to PM you Greg.

Serg have a chat with Greg as this is what he does for a living & he plays with the BIG stuff but has access to all hydraulis equipment from fittings,hoses,valves,rams,manifolds,etc.



brooksy

1MadEngineer wrote:damn this thread makes my head hurt?

so what do you want? and what are you making?
even some basics:
tonnage -
stroke -
available power supply -

please fill in the blanks (3)

Unlike you greg I know SFA about this stuff, so as I start to ask questions it leads to some info and MORE questions....

I started by looking at the enerpac catalogue, and seeing what they used in their press. Yes im making a press (H frame). A mate has built a few of these before in various sizes from scratch including cylinders etc...So I asked if he would help me build one but Ill just buy a cylinder and pump to save that part....(he lives over 1000ks away and I dont have a lathe)

after doing some digging, I dont need the double acting cylinder that enerpac use in their press, which means I dont need the corosponding pump....

As I already have some spx stuff I figured that I would stay with one brand so their may be more chance of interchange ability....for example, if im using a 14inch stroke cylinder on the press, that is a lot of pumps by hand, but maybe I could hook up my air/hyd to do the initial travel and then finish by hand...

Mate sugested I go for around the 50t mark as 25/30 is good but if only having one press may as well go a bit bigger, wont be much more work for the frame....his 25t frames are way more substancial than the supa cheap type stuff...

so now im looking at SPX power team:

Pump: P159
Cylinder C5513C (55t 13inch stroke single acting)
FOR A H FRAME PRESS!
available power is 240v or 13cfm compressor running off 240v or hand....all that wanking i do should come in handy


Does anyone know if the old surface mail (by boat) still exists from the USA??? pump can be shipped by USPS but the cylinder is above their weight limit

cheers,
Serg

brooksy wrote:I was going to mention to Serg to PM you Greg.

Serg have a chat with Greg as this is what he does for a living & he plays with the BIG stuff but has access to all hydraulis equipment from fittings,hoses,valves,rams,manifolds,etc.



brooksy

Thnaks Brooksy,
Yeah I have Pm'd him in the past and hes been very helpful. But as its that time of year I figured Id just let it play out here.....may even help someone else.

it doesnt need to be some muiltfunction high production press. Yes I know it will be alot more than a chinese junker....built atleast I get some fab practice building it and should end up with something alot better quality. And have porta power to a degree.

mostly want to check prices out to make sure its worth getting from the USA to save bucks. At the moment it certainly looks that way. Stuff im looking at is near new and not flogged to death or new

cheers,
Serg

got some more info today, dont know if its 100% correct. I was told that cylinders above 25t used in a vertical postion on a press should be double acting because the return spring wont be strong enough to return it in any sort of reasonable time...

I then refferenced the enerpac and SPX catalogues and both offer 50/55t presses with single acting cylinders and hand pumps?????

Serg

I think you probably need to work out what you really need tonnage wise and also a rough price you are willing to pay. Please dont think you are going to get a half decent 50t press for $500, I couldnt even do that. once you start talking greater than 30t (and a good design) you are headed for serious dollars. When it comes to press design there are 2 options - 1 that will do a job OR 1 that can make you money. generally there is not much difference in initial cost, but functionally they are light years apart!!!

This is a basic 100t i made about 6years ago.

Greg, making money isnt a design requirment in ANY way...I will not be doing work on the side, sure I will help out a friend if needed, but it will only be for my use. I will be happy to pump away with a hand pump. I can get a good hand pump for about $700. If im looking at a 50t cylinder i can get a brand new one for 1000 but am stuck with shipping ATM as USPS wont do the weight. A 25t could probably be shipped.

Do I really need a double acting cylinder? like I said,enerpac and spx both offer H frame presses with either single or double acting in 50t......

I have seen some presses with helper springs on the sides on the ram...working of a plate fixed to it.

Your press looks awesome, but your knowledge and ability, plus resources are light years away from mine.

As far as my required tonneage goes, Im open to advice. My mate has sugessted the frame he has made for his 25t were overkill and could handle more. He susgested that there are occasions where 25t wont do the job(talking working on 4x4 components and using it to fold steel etc).I have been talking to a hyd shop and he has stated that even the 50t press they have sometimes gets maxed out on ball joints and such. I just want to build something good quailty and get a little experience doing so.

cheers,
Serg

We have a 25 tonne AC press at work and rarely max it out. We do a lot of balljoints, suspension bushes, wheel bearings etc. Only sometimes a very rusted in Subaru driveshaft or similiar has held it back, but it's not very often. Has served us well for nearly 10 years without any major problems.

http://www.jonair.com.au/index.php?page ... Itemid=111" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

anyone know if im going 50t will i need a double acting cylinder???

cheers,
Serg

A mate of mine has a 60ton, an older model though (can't rem the brand) which I use occasionally, all it has for return is springs. Unless you need the ram to contract quickly or under power for some reason, I wouldn't think its necessary.

my 30t has dual springs on it.. your typical servex press

can be had for about $1k if you look around auction wise

still looking at the 50-55t cylinders using approx 13 inch stroke.

not wanting to mount helper springs on the ram. Does anyone know how long it takes for one of these rams to return on its own (single acting)

If I stick with spx I can use my air/hyd pump to bring ram down to work piece and then pump the rest by hand..... just wondering if its goig to take 30mins for the ram to return enough to remove the work piece???

also can I buy a hand pump sutied for double acting cylinder ie 2 hyd lines etc and use it on a single acting cylider???

another ?

if the pump has less oil capacity than the cylinder, does this mean it wont get the full stroke from it???

do i need to have the pump capacity at least as big as the cylinder capacity PLUS hose connection capacity???

that would be the idea that you would want a greater oil capcity in your pump then your cylinder.