Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day to all you 60 fans out there! I'm the proud new owner of a 1983 HJ60 (white car) with a 4 speed and 2H rebuilt 20,000km ago. This is it here.

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In 2009, when my grandfather passed away, I inherited his 1986 HJ61 (red car) with auto and 12HT with 250,000km on the clock. The roof has nearly rusted off!



I'm in Melbourne but flying to Newcastle tomorrow to pick it up and drive it home. I'm kind of going up 'blindfolded' at the moment because I have never inspected this car, but have put a deposit down to say i'll take it. I'm going to attempt to look over the vehicle with a fine tooth comb just to pick up on any defects/fault (which the owner says there isn't any). I would love to get as much advice on what to look for as possible, as I fly out of Melbourne tomorrow at 4.15pm. Please help me with your advice.

Ultimately, my goal is to use the 12HT engine from the red car (from what I've read from you guys, these engines are apparantly gold plated- or might as well be), but if the 2H is as good as it seems (you guys say that they last forever), I may be happy to drive around at snails pace for a year or two.

The questions that i'm wondering, chassis swap (white body on red chassis), or engine swap (red drivetrain in white car)??? Manual or auto transmission? 15" or 16" tyres? Please let me know what you think- good and bad.

Whatever vehicle I use, I want a 3" exhaust, 12HT engine, standard turbo (CT26 isn't it) rebuilt, boost slightly increased, fuel pump upgraded, etc...

Have a good think about it. I would probably put the 12ht into the white rather than re-body the red - depending on condition of course. You could put the 2h into red and sell it complete and running but you would probably get more money parting the 2h motor box and the rest of the red out to fund the 12ht motor swap. One thing to consider is a rebuilt 2H is a better prospect than a worn 12HT but @ 250k there should be plenty of life left in the 12HT.

Re tyres I run 15's and they are fine but just use the better ones and sell the others.

I prefer manual and not sure about the a440 i know the 80 series (a440F) are strong enough.

Yeah, i'm definitely leaning towards keeping the white one but using the 12HT out of the red one rather than lifting two bodies off the chassis and swapping them round.

About the transmission, every single car that I have ever owned has been manual, so I am a manual person myself (and so is my partner- she's strongly against autos), but the red one seemed really comfortable to drive with the 12HT and auto mated together. At 100kmh, I would be sitting on 1900rpm with the standard 7.5r16's If possible, can somebody tell me what the power loss and fuel economy is like with the auto v manual? Although the manual is a 4 speed, I would prefer 5 speed, so if you think that the 80 series A440F is the way to go, and it's a simple bolt in replacement for the 60, then that's the way that I would go!

Drop the 12HT + Auto into the white car. Engine mounts will be the same, auto crossmember might be different to a manual though.

Get a 5 speed manual box if you want a manual.

Well! I'm back in Melbourne now, having driven my HJ60 from Medowie, NSW over 1100km to Melbourne and couldn't be happier. I filled up in Raymond Terrace, just north of Newcastle on the Pacific Hwy, and the old cruiser is still going on that tank of fuel (it does have an auxilliary tank of an unknown capacity), and currently sits on 1120km with a bit below a quarter to go. Prior to me picking this car up, the only 60 that I had ever driven was an auto 12HT. I got in the car and struggled to find the correct gears on the 4 speed box, but soon figured it out... Everybody told me that the 2H was super-duper slow, but this one goes a bit better than I was expecting (probably thanks to new engine, extractors and 2.5 exhaust). The lack of 5th gear was a little bit frustrating, because at 100 or 110kmh, it's revving the same as my little 1.3 suzuki G13A engine, which is about 3000rpm. So the two things missing were a 5th gear (or overdrive) and a turbo (i'm still happy in the non-turbo engine). When I drive my red 60 on the open road, I just put it in 'D' and forget about the rest, although I do have to watch my speed because the 12HT can very comfortably cruise on 120+kmh all day long. If i'm sitting on 90kmh in the 2H and I take my foot off the accelarator, it's almost like applying the brakes, coz the non-turbo 2H slows down pretty quickly compared with the 12HT. Once the 12HT is fitted to the white car, the question that I am asking is auto or 5 speed manual? My partner loves to drive manual over auto any day, but is having a little difficulty getting the hang of this gearbox, and stiff clutch. I may be leaning towards auto... If not, the 4 speed is out and the 5 speed will be in!
How much power does the auto box really zap?

The auto's don't sap much power. It's only noticeable really on cars that don't have much torque, or make peak torque right up near redline. So it's a non issue on a 12ht. The condition of the torque convertor will be a factor though. It's it's got high kays i'd look at having it rebuild.

Difference between 5spd manual and auto. I've driven both. 1st gear in the 5speed is very low, so low you will be doing most take offs in 2nd gear. Otherwise you will be left for dead at the lights by city buses.

However on a hill you will need to use 1st gear. Acceleration will be much slower on hills with the 5spd compared to the auto.

That might not bother you, but it bothers me. Ideally you would spend a week in both versions driving the places you normally drive, and make your own decision.

On top of that the 5spd is not as robust as the auto. by 300k it will probably need bearings and syncros. Also if it's an early box it will probably need new 5th gear parts. In short, factor in a rebuild if buying one.