Outer Limits 4x4 Board

First of all let me say I know very very very little about LPG

I have been looking into the idea of running my sierra based buggy on gas. It has a 1.6 efi vitara engine. Runs fine and has plenty of power for what I want it to do so the little I will loose from the gas will be fine. I have a LPG guy plumbing it all up and setting it all up for me

My questions I have are about the LPG tanks them self. Being a buggy I am having problems finding a cheap tank that will fit. I have come across 2 scuba tanks that were removed from the back of a van 4 days ago. They are the perfect size and they are free to me if I want them. But here is the down side. They will be out of date as of the end of this month and that is why they were replaced. They have never had any problems and they were only replaced due to the date. They can not be re-inspected because the valving on the bottle is no longer available for replacement.

This buggy will never see the road unless its on a trailer, how safe is it to use those bottles? My LPG guy has looked at them and said they SHOULD be fine. The bottles have lived there life in the back of a van so they lived a bit of a easy life.

My other option is to run a forklift bottle and just keep a spare one in the tow vehicle. But that in it self has its problems, first and foremost filling them up is a hassle.

If I run the scuba tank I will have room for a small petrol tank so I can keep it on duel fuel and that in its self would be great for those longer camping trips.

Let me know what you think about the different tanks.

Dave, weigh up the risk.

Mrs Ds old GQ ran on dual fuel, and when the tank was up for renewal, it failed the test, it leaked apparently. The tank looked fine to me, but it failed.
It was a 110L tank, so it was a big one, and finding a replacement was near impossible.

I ended up finding one out at Land Vehicle Spares, out at Silverdale/Warragamba area.

If you can have a tank that is in date, just for added piece of mind, that way you know that it will be safe.

I wouldnt risk it.

Forklift bottle makes the most sense.

probally better to stick to tank made for auto use, They are hard to get pre loved cause of regulation.
How do you intend to fill up. It is hard to fill anything now yourself.
Have you investigated forklift tank about 25kg approx which can be swaped like 45kg. only able to be handled easy.
Filling will be big issue, maybe fitted up so can fill at servo on trailer but still may have pump turned off on you,

What's the problem filling up forklift bottles?

The bottles I can get passed pressure testing. But to pass regulation the valving on the bottle must be removed and the seal replaced, well that seal is no longer available so that can not be done.
Just sucks that I found the exact size and I can't use it But better to be safe I guess.

KiwiBacon wrote:What's the problem filling up forklift bottles?

They have to be filled with a different filler hose. Like what you fill your BBQ bottle up with and 99% of servo now will not fill LPG bottles they do the swop and go. Infact the only 2 servos I know that still fill bottles are both over 30 mins from my house. There are addaptors you can get to make them fill using the standard pump at the servo but they are high dollar and hard to find because most LPG people want nothing to do with them.

Theres a heap of servos around here that will fill up BBQ gas bottles.
Even BCF fills up BBQ gas bottles. Last time I got mine filled, it was about 13bucks for a 9kg.

As for Forklift bottles, you can get 2, have one as a spare, and go and swap the empty for a full one, somewhere that does welding gas should be able to help out.

V.W.Dave wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:What's the problem filling up forklift bottles?

They have to be filled with a different filler hose. Like what you fill your BBQ bottle up with and 99% of servo now will not fill LPG bottles they do the swop and go. Infact the only 2 servos I know that still fill bottles are both over 30 mins from my house. There are addaptors you can get to make them fill using the standard pump at the servo but they are high dollar and hard to find because most LPG people want nothing to do with them.

Oh right. Over here it doesn't seem to be a problem. There are also plenty of guys running around in trucks full of bottles doing empty-full exchange for industrial gas as well as home heating bottles. Higher cost obviously but no shagging around.

Dave

Go legal whatever you choose. The risk of litigation could be huge, it's not worth it.

Cylinders may look OK from the outside but often corrode internally, hence the 10 year test regulations.

Tony LPG refinery operator when not 4wheeling

Yahh I am not going to use the bottles as said its not worth the risk.

Time to look for some smallish forky bottles

Just make an adaptor to fill the fork bottles at the servo LPG bowser....... To all the safety biatches, piss off, it's perfectly safe

Tiny wrote:Just make an adaptor to fill the fork bottles at the servo LPG bowser....... To all the safety biatches, piss off, it's perfectly safe

there must be a risk otherwise why would they knock back a sale

Tiny wrote:Just make an adaptor to fill the fork bottles at the servo LPG bowser....... To all the safety biatches, piss off, it's perfectly safe

there must be a risk otherwise why would they knock back a sale [/quote]

the hard part is getting the fittings. to use servo pump. Must have liscence to get in nsw, unless can salvage from wreck.
servo pumps in to fill car tank bbq bottles transfer on pressure of filler bottle greater than 9kg bottle.
I use to fill small bottles from 45 kg was ok til valve starts to go, the O rings in taps go in about every 10 years so new valve is part of recert of tanks and bottles.

If all is gas tight then no problem unless certification checked at servo.

around here even filling diesel into non regulation drum or haveing drum not on ground get pump turned off and a chat about your habbits.

If going to use legal is best way to go so no probs anyware at fill or playing around

you can buy forklift bottles with the servo pump connection already on them

Dave the caltex down the road from daves (blackcow) does Lpq refills. Can you find /make an adaptor from fork to normal car lpg fillers?

BlueSuzy wrote:Dave the caltex down the road from daves (blackcow) does Lpq refills. Can you find /make an adaptor from fork to normal car lpg fillers?

Yes and I also can make them fill from the car one as well. The main problem is service stations (most of them) won't fill up forky bottles or a buggy on a trailer with LPG. I am looking into getting a small 40L auto one out of a 4cyl van as we speak

Why not look at two newer scuba tanks? or are they just $$$?

V.W.Dave wrote:The main problem is service stations (most of them) won't fill up forky bottles or a buggy on a trailer with LPG.

I know there are shiteloads of lpg forklifts in aussie, where are they all filled?

KiwiBacon wrote:

V.W.Dave wrote:The main problem is service stations (most of them) won't fill up forky bottles or a buggy on a trailer with LPG.

I know there are shiteloads of lpg forklifts in aussie, where are they all filled?

We don't refill them. We get them swapped over for full ones. Same as you guys. A dude rocks up with a heap of bottles on the back of a ute or a truck.
We swap them by the cage full at our DC.

V.W.Dave wrote:

BlueSuzy wrote:Dave the caltex down the road from daves (blackcow) does Lpq refills. Can you find /make an adaptor from fork to normal car lpg fillers?

The main problem is service stations (most of them) won't fill up forky bottles or a buggy on a trailer with LPG.

Rig an lpg fitting into your car/wagon and put the bottle inside. Rock up to the servo and they'll just think you have an ordinary lpg car.

Alternatively find a local 24hr unmanned at night station and fill up there.

Ok so I spent some time today talking to a my blue slip guy and my LPG guy and sorting through the legalities of what I am wanting to do and what I can do. In the end I think we have come up with a great plan that solves all my problems. Most of all it keeps it safe, once it is set up it will be easy to refill and keeps it legal.

The problems I am facing I want to run LPG but I want to be able to take it on long camping trips. The space I have to make the bottle or bottles fit into is a little tight. I can fit a standard forky bottle in but a 60L LPG bottle because the reg is on the side of the bottle. I have a wrecker mate of mine looking for a slender LPG bottle for me ( something around between 200 and 290mm in diameter and 600mm long) The common LPG tanks are around 330mm wide. With that fitted on my zuki I will run it on duel ful but my petrol tank is only going to be a 1 Gallon ( 4L ) tank. That is all fairly simple but here is the tricky stuff we came up with.

The tank on the zuki will have 2 different filling valves the first one will be your standard automotive filler. The second filler will be a one way regulated valve ( I think that is what the LPG guy called it) what that will allow me to do is refill my tank using a common BBQ LPG bottle or any other kind of bottle. So what we are going to do is on the trailer I get when this is all done I am going to get two 120L ( or what ever I can fit) and put them on the front of the trailer with a common automotive filler. Doing this is 100% completely legal and its great because all I would need to do in the bush to fill up is get back to my trailer A.K.A. my tanker Now I know the people out there that know about gas are going to tell me that when I go to fill up off the tanks on the trailer it will only equalize the pressure it wont fill the tank well that is where that regulated valve comes into play. As it was described to me it make it fill the bottle rather then equalize.

I like people that think outside the box

Have you considered just ditching the idea of LPG and running it on petrol? It sounds like that would be a lot simpler.

you realise fitting a lpg tank onto a trailer it has to comply with all lpg standard and be certified ?

if its not regoed just use a 9kg bbq bottle invert it so the outlet is on the bottom plum it into the converter and your good too swap and go

Why not just do the fork-lift thing and swap empty bottles for full?

chimpboy wrote:Have you considered just ditching the idea of LPG and running it on petrol? It sounds like that would be a lot simpler.

I have gone back and forth with it quiet a few times. But the places I plan to take this thing are going to be some big angles and I need this thing to be able to run near upside down. I also think it will make the rig look better with the bottle on the back and most of all its my build and I want it on LPG. (that sounded bitchy but wasn't meant to)

pcman wrote:you realise fitting a lpg tank onto a trailer it has to comply with all lpg standard and be certified ?
if its not regoed just use a 9kg bbq bottle invert it so the outlet is on the bottom plum it into the converter and your good too swap and go

According to the blueslip guy the trailer didn't need to be certified as it didn't have a source using the fuel as part of the trailer. It will be plumbed up properly anyway. But I do have to have one of those warning signs that trucks have showing that I am towing fuel. If it does need to be certified then he can do that for me anyway
I did look into the small bottles as you said but they cost more to fill then filling from the auto pump.

KiwiBacon wrote:Why not just do the fork-lift thing and swap empty bottles for full?

I want to do this but its not that easy. Most servos wont fill them, the places that do the swop and go are not open 24hrs so no late fill up. But honestly I have not ruled out doing this.

V.W.Dave wrote:

chimpboy wrote:Have you considered just ditching the idea of LPG and running it on petrol? It sounds like that would be a lot simpler.

I have gone back and forth with it quiet a few times. But the places I plan to take this thing are going to be some big angles and I need this thing to be able to run near upside down. I also think it will make the rig look better with the bottle on the back and most of all its my build and I want it on LPG. (that sounded bitchy but wasn't meant to)

EFI plus a well designed petrol tank will take care of the angles, won't it? You can put an empty LPG bottle on for looks if you want

I dunno man, maybe at least just do the sums on what it will all really cost and see if LPG is worth it compared to something else you could do with the extra dosh... particularly since you are now at a point where you are setting it up for dual fuel anyway.

chimpboy wrote:

V.W.Dave wrote:

chimpboy wrote:Have you considered just ditching the idea of LPG and running it on petrol? It sounds like that would be a lot simpler.

I have gone back and forth with it quiet a few times. But the places I plan to take this thing are going to be some big angles and I need this thing to be able to run near upside down. I also think it will make the rig look better with the bottle on the back and most of all its my build and I want it on LPG. (that sounded bitchy but wasn't meant to)

EFI plus a well designed petrol tank will take care of the angles, won't it? You can put an empty LPG bottle on for looks if you want

I dunno man, maybe at least just do the sums on what it will all really cost and see if LPG is worth it compared to something else you could do with the extra dosh... particularly since you are now at a point where you are setting it up for dual fuel anyway.

To put it on LPG the only thing I have to pay for is the bottle. Everything else is free even the install by a qualified LPG guy. (some times I love being a Snap On dealer every one wants to be my friend hahaha)

Since we're talking about LPG, how much of a saga is it to get a system re-tested?

What sort of money is involved?

We have two forklift bottles here with automotive style filling points on them. We hired them nearly two years ago and as far as the gas supplier is concerned they've never been empty.