coil axel vs WT axels

[wideaz]

are the coil sprung sierra axels the same as WT sierrs?

front and rear, are they the same????????????????????????

thanks
guys

[V.W.Dave]

You realise that because you now have 3 threads on here all about the same thing. You are going to start to get some stupid answers. You could have asked this on one of the other 2 you have started.

You have a custom job from Joe you need to talk to him not us.

This is the reason I do not like the diff "upgrade" both Joe and G-man do down south of the boarder.

[zukmeista]

You realise that because you now have 3 threads on here all about the same thing. You are going to start to get some stupid answers. You could have asked this on one of the other 2 you have started.

You have a custom job from Joe you need to talk to him not us.

This is the reason I do not like the diff "upgrade" both Joe and G-man do down south of the boarder.

You don't like anything unless you built it

[V.W.Dave]

You realise that because you now have 3 threads on here all about the same thing. You are going to start to get some stupid answers. You could have asked this on one of the other 2 you have started.

You have a custom job from Joe you need to talk to him not us.

This is the reason I do not like the diff "upgrade" both Joe and G-man do down south of the boarder.

You don't like anything unless you built it

Hmm I don't know where that came from??? I just don't share the same love for how "strong" suzuki diffs/axels are like our freinds form south of the boarder. The fact that Joe has built this guy a front diff running 35" rubber using anything with Suzuki stamped on it floors me. Gearin up or down things may help spread the load of pushing them around but toothpick rear axels is a joke. Gman has a good thing going with his crazy rear floating diff but what happens when you brake it in the middle of no where???? You can't just pick up a custom made replacement at the local wreckers. If it was purely a comp truck and you kept spairs or could make your own its a different story.

This idea that suzuki diffs/axels are strong is a joke. The front cromo replacements are fairly good but there is no good option OFF THE SHELF for the rear.

[zukmeista]

Not all of us want to crawl ginormus rocks or ruin our suzukis by putting BIG, HEAVY TOYOTA diffs under them. If ya gunna run hilux gear, buy a goddamn hilux so you don't ruin a suzuki

[V.W.Dave]

Not all of us want to crawl ginormus rocks or ruin our suzukis by putting BIG, HEAVY TOYOTA diffs under them. If ya gunna run hilux gear, buy a goddamn hilux so you don't ruin a suzuki

He is running 35" tires under a SWB sierra you tell me what you think he is planning on driving? Through a grassy field may be? or may be it just for taking granny to church on sunday???

Give me stronger EVERY thing from stock, better brakes, 10 time more off the shelf upgrades,a wider stance more tire/rim options all for gaining 50kls (hilux diffs are only 25kls more per diff) and loosing 1.5" in diff clearance any day.

[zukmeista]

Not all of us want to crawl ginormus rocks or ruin our suzukis by putting BIG, HEAVY TOYOTA diffs under them. If ya gunna run hilux gear, buy a goddamn hilux so you don't ruin a suzuki

He is running 35" tires under a SWB sierra you tell me what you think he is planning on driving? Through a grassy field may be? or may be it just for taking granny to church on sunday???

Give me stronger EVERY thing from stock, better brakes, 10 time more off the shelf upgrades,a wider stance more tire/rim options all for gaining 50kls (hilux diffs are only 25kls more per diff) and loosing 1.5" in diff clearance any day.

That is why people think you are a retard. It's fine running big tyres on zook diffs, you've just got to drive sensibly.

[wideaz]

im only running 33s plus there silverstones so there prob only 31 or 32 lol

[grimbo]

That is why people think you are a retard.

Pot meet kettle

[Drew]

x2 what grimbo said

Why don't people who resort to insults over personal opinions just not bother posting anything.

also zook w/bearings don't live long happy lives with 33's or bigger either (years in the shed don't count).

[V.W.Dave]

You will never read me name say unless its in retaliation.

[Gutless]

also zook w/bearings don't live long happy lives with 33's or bigger either

This is true.

I also appreciate the idea of keeping stock axles under a sierra. I am building mine ATM for 33's but have tried to address a few issues that others overlook.

Front chromo's, possibly custom CNC hubs to allow for larger bearings ( playing with GQ bearins ATM) M14 wheel studs, 2.0L SV420 vented rotors and calipers, 1.6 wagon brake booster with 2.0L SV master cyl.

The rear will still be suzuki, but not sierra. I am shortening an SV420 axle assembly and doing full floater conversion at the same time. Also converting to disc rear.

I think the suzuki stuff has potential if you are prepared to put in the work.

[CanberraMav]

I can appreciate why people want to keep their cars all suzuki but when they spend shitlloads of time and money and basically 're-invent the wheel' so to speak i think they are missing the point of keeping it all suzuki.

Sierra stuff is pissweak. There is no 2 ways of looking at it. Why should people nurse their cars to compensate for piss weak driveline? What do you do when you get to a big hill? Turn around?

To me the "suzuki purist thing" is just the influence of some certain people who i admit, know alot and are very skilled. there is nothing wrong with this. For the average bloke who doesnt have a welder and a milling machine these mods they are doing are very difficult. This is where the average bloke starts handing over his hard-earned to keep up with the purists.

Diff upgrades are cheaper and easier and way stronger. From an engineering point of view obviously harder.

I used suzuki diffs for as long as i could with a huge range off different tyre sizes. They arn't strong enough.

[sierrajim]

I'm running Zook diffs with Q78 swampers and flog the a$$ out of my car. It's a full floater rear with chromo's and double toughs in the front.

I've had cars with Hilux diffs, 60 series diffs, MQ diffs and stock zook diffs.

The built zook diffs have much more clearance than the others but do not offer the additional track width. Adding wheel spacers/huge offset rims on zook diffs is a bad idea in my opinion due to the increased scrub radius.

My old car (now Canberramav's) was about the most stable bodied vehicle I'ver ever driven.

[V.W.Dave]

The built zook diffs have much more clearance than the others but do not offer the additional track width. Adding wheel spacers/huge offset rims on zook diffs is a bad idea in my opinion due to the increased scrub radius.

My old car (now Canberramav's) was about the most stable bodied vehicle I'ver ever driven.

Not all of us have seen his new toy can you please let us know what diffs are under it???? Cough cough yota ......

[Gwagensteve]

what happens when we break our floaters? Hmm. We'll see. as it stands, DT's are stronger than sierra hub bolts, and our floater rears are considerably stronger in the axle than DT fronts.

Why anybody would run a huge housing designed for a 3 tonne GVM with a crappy 1040 axle in it and consider that an upgrade is beyond me.

It has NOTHING to do with being a suzuki purist. I don't give a toss whose axles are under my car, I just want the smallest, lightest strongest combination I can get.

Steve.

[zukmeista]

what happens when we break our floaters? Hmm. We'll see. as it stands, DT's are stronger than sierra hub bolts, and our floater rears are considerably stronger in the axle than DT fronts.

Why anybody would run a huge housing designed for a 3 tonne GVM with a crappy 1040 axle in it and consider that an upgrade is beyond me.

It has NOTHING to do with being a suzuki purist. I don't give a toss whose axles are under my car, I just want the smallest, lightest strongest combination I can get.

Steve.

100% agree with you there G-man. I don't understand why someone would run 35's on lux diffs when they could run 33's on zook diffs and have more clearance, plus zook bits are cheaper than yota stuff. Besides, it's a destructive cycle. First you get big tyres, start breaking axles/c.v.s, upgrade diffs, put bigger tyres on then motor can't handle the load, so you put a bigger one in, resulting in a transmisson weakness, put stronger one in, break transfer case, put stronger one in, and what do we have? A hilux with a weak chassis and a suzuki body?

[11_evl]

Love this
Once again we have different states fighting about what is a better setup for diffs

VIC Mud/ off camber - when they say Suzuki duffs they ray mean, as Steve said. Lightest smallest, strongest combo, something you can't get from a non Suzuki diff. So it doesn't matter what other diff is suggested will not stand up to task. So what if there vit floater combo probably has similar specs as a stock lux diff, they have piece of mind knowing they built it by hand, it's original, it's best of the best that suits them with hrs of shed time, that's the level they are at. They have PROGRESSED past Suzuki so to speak gear.

Everyone other than Vic, ROCK - we need strength, tyre and length
Lux diffs are a great option. DT's on zook diffs are great up to say 31-33 on rock but they won't be liking it

Lux diffs can shaved for better clearance

But there will always be arguments.

As for answer. Front cv and axles are different

[11_evl]

what happens when we break our floaters? Hmm. We'll see. as it stands, DT's are stronger than sierra hub bolts, and our floater rears are considerably stronger in the axle than DT fronts.

Why anybody would run a huge housing designed for a 3 tonne GVM with a crappy 1040 axle in it and consider that an upgrade is beyond me.

It has NOTHING to do with being a suzuki purist. I don't give a toss whose axles are under my car, I just want the smallest, lightest strongest combination I can get.

Steve.

100% agree with you there G-man. I don't understand why someone would run 35's on lux diffs when they could run 33's on zook diffs and have more clearance, plus zook bits are cheaper than yota stuff. Besides, it's a destructive cycle. First you get big tyres, start breaking axles/c.v.s, upgrade diffs, put bigger tyres on then motor can't handle the load, so you put a bigger one in, resulting in a transmisson weakness, put stronger one in, break transfer case, put stronger one in, and what do we have? A hilux with a weak chassis and a suzuki body?

Thanks, for what I drive I think my hilux with weak chassis and body works well

[supazuk]

have people actually measured the differences in diff clearance?

my old landcruser which has the same sized diffs front and rear has
exactly the same amount of diff clearance as my sierra.
the sierra has 31s and the lardy car has 33s, so on the same tyres that would be a
very small difference.

[11_evl]

have people actually measured the differences in diff clearance?

my old landcruser which has the same sized diffs front and rear has
exactly the same amount of diff clearance as my sierra.
the sierra has 31s and the lardy car has 33s, so on the same tyres that would be a
very small difference.

i have about 9.5" with sierra and 31"s
and about 14.5 with lux and 40"s

[Gwagensteve]

DT's on zook diffs are great up to say 31-33 on rock but they won't be liking it

Out of interest 11_evl, are you running 8mm or 10mm front hub bolts on your hilux diff? We're wiping out 8mm hub bolts when we're bound up with DT's and 35"+tyres, but the CV's have been fine. I'd say thar

This bears out the US experience too, although some US users have broken early DT inner axles.

Do you know anyone who has broken a DT with a 31" tyre, or for that matter a 33" tyre, regardless of terrain?

Whilst I'm happy to say that we don't do a lot of rock here in Vic, we have lots of massively deep ruts with overhung tree roots. These will bind a driveline up just as easily as rock, and as a result we can still wipe our rear axles and stock CV's at will with 31-33"tyres. I've taken out two rear axles with my 660cc motor and one of those axles was on bald 9/34 tyres. The fact we now have a stable driveline with 35" tyres would indicate we have arrived at a pretty good package based on strength to weight and strength to clearance, which are enormously important to us. Is it a more expensive outcome than hilux diffs? Sure. I bet it's not much weaker though, if at all. With a setup like yours 11_evl, I have no doubt that hilux diffs are the smallest diffs you can run, but we're not all running 40's either, and neither are many of the people who are claiming that hilux diffs are the only way to go. Many of them are running smaller tyres than us.

There's very, very few people who have fully developed suzuki based diffs, I guess partly because of the expense and effort. To say we're doing it because we are suzuki purists or because we don't drive terrain that demands "bigger" diffs is nonsense. It's the solution that gives us the best capability.

Steve.

PS with 34's we're at about 305mm under a shaved vitara rear. A shaved sierra front is about 320mm.

[11_evl]

DT's on zook diffs are great up to say 31-33 on rock but they won't be liking it

Out of interest 11_evl, are you running 8mm or 10mm front hub bolts on your hilux diff? We're wiping out 8mm hub bolts when we're bound up with DT's and 35"+tyres, but the CV's have been fine. I'd say thar

This bears out the US experience too, although some US users have broken early DT inner axles.

Do you know anyone who has broken a DT with a 31" tyre, or for that matter a 33" tyre, regardless of terrain?

Whilst I'm happy to say that we don't do a lot of rock here in Vic, we have lots of massively deep ruts with overhung tree roots. These will bind a driveline up just as easily as rock, and as a result we can still wipe our rear axles and stock CV's at will with 31-33"tyres. I've taken out two rear axles with my 660cc motor and one of those axles was on bald 9/34 tyres. The fact we now have a stable driveline with 35" tyres would indicate we have arrived at a pretty good package based on strength to weight and strength to clearance, which are enormously important to us. Is it a more expensive outcome than hilux diffs? Sure. I bet it's not much weaker though, if at all. With a setup like yours 11_evl, I have no doubt that hilux diffs are the smallest diffs you can run, but we're not all running 40's either, and neither are many of the people who are claiming that hilux diffs are the only way to go. Many of them are running smaller tyres than us.

There's very, very few people who have fully developed suzuki based diffs, I guess partly because of the expense and effort. To say we're doing it because we are suzuki purists or because we don't drive terrain that demands "bigger" diffs is nonsense. It's the solution that gives us the best capability.

Steve.

PS with 34's we're at about 305mm under a shaved vitara rear. A shaved sierra front is about 320mm.

im trying to not base my set up against anyone hereas i am aware they dont run 40s!! just silly to compare

as for pricing, i have about $3000 min in each diff parts only, not including hydraulics or shaving

all four courners im running longs, trail creeper flanges, 10mm studs and 6 shooters

Do you know anyone who has broken a DT with a 31" tyre, or for that matter a 33" tyre, regardless of terrain?

.

im pretty sure Want33s broke cro-mos on one of his Ormeau trips on his 33 silverstones

i think the main arguement is an average person that is breaking suzuki stuff weighs up the COST of zook based cro-mos and basic upgrades AFTER buying bigger tyres and breaking stuff and than looks at a hilux in the paddock and says i can fit them and be strong with the sacraface of a little clearance and think they are better off....as for the more experienced people like you who have gone that path 15yrs ago and PROGRESSED past that you can only give advise and hope they learn and listen... as for all the web wheelers, they all listen to what they think is the best and spew it out like its the ONLY way of doing things..... thats my take on it all, shit i ran lux diffs on 32s and couldnt be happier

[V.W.Dave]

DT's on zook diffs are great up to say 31-33 on rock but they won't be liking it

Out of interest 11_evl, are you running 8mm or 10mm front hub bolts on your hilux diff? We're wiping out 8mm hub bolts when we're bound up with DT's and 35"+tyres, but the CV's have been fine. I'd say thar

This bears out the US experience too, although some US users have broken early DT inner axles.

Do you know anyone who has broken a DT with a 31" tyre, or for that matter a 33" tyre, regardless of terrain?

Whilst I'm happy to say that we don't do a lot of rock here in Vic, we have lots of massively deep ruts with overhung tree roots. These will bind a driveline up just as easily as rock, and as a result we can still wipe our rear axles and stock CV's at will with 31-33"tyres. I've taken out two rear axles with my 660cc motor and one of those axles was on bald 9/34 tyres. The fact we now have a stable driveline with 35" tyres would indicate we have arrived at a pretty good package based on strength to weight and strength to clearance, which are enormously important to us. Is it a more expensive outcome than hilux diffs? Sure. I bet it's not much weaker though, if at all. With a setup like yours 11_evl, I have no doubt that hilux diffs are the smallest diffs you can run, but we're not all running 40's either, and neither are many of the people who are claiming that hilux diffs are the only way to go. Many of them are running smaller tyres than us.

There's very, very few people who have fully developed suzuki based diffs, I guess partly because of the expense and effort. To say we're doing it because we are suzuki purists or because we don't drive terrain that demands "bigger" diffs is nonsense. It's the solution that gives us the best capability.

Steve.

PS with 34's we're at about 305mm under a shaved vitara rear. A shaved sierra front is about 320mm.

im trying to not base my set up against anyone hereas i am aware they dont run 40s!! just silly to compare

as for pricing, i have about $3000 min in each diff parts only, not including hydraulics or shaving

all four courners im running longs, trail creeper flanges, 10mm studs and 6 shooters

Do you know anyone who has broken a DT with a 31" tyre, or for that matter a 33" tyre, regardless of terrain?

.

im pretty sure Want33s broke cro-mos on one of his Ormeau trips on his 33 silverstones

i think the main arguement is an average person that is breaking suzuki stuff weighs up the COST of zook based cro-mos and basic upgrades AFTER buying bigger tyres and breaking stuff and than looks at a hilux in the paddock and says i can fit them and be strong with the sacraface of a little clearance and think they are better off....as for the more experienced people like you who have gone that path 15yrs ago and PROGRESSED past that you can only give advise and hope they learn and listen... as for all the web wheelers, they all listen to what they think is the best and spew it out like its the ONLY way of doing things..... thats my take on it all, shit i ran lux diffs on 32s and couldnt be happier

One of the guys I go out with killed a DT on 32" worn out mungrals. It was in transition from sand to rock.

One of the biggest upgrades you get with any other diff that is not Suzi that all the mexicans keep forgetting about is the huge upgrade you get is the brakes. In total you are adding about 25Lbs per diff ( stock for stock) going from W/T to Lux. In that you get about 4" of width Well over double the braking power. In the stock form they are twice as strong. OFF THE SHELF not custom made in a shed OFF THE SHELF there are 10 times as many upgrades.

Gman the things you build are great and if my suzi was a daily driver and I was a little close I would be first in line money in hand for you to build me one of your diff set ups.

[Gwagensteve]

One of the guys I go out with killed a DT on 32" worn out mungrals. It was in transition from sand to rock.

I don't believe you. Sorry, I just don't. If that was possible we would have broken a dozen by now. Have you read the Pirate thread on DT's? There's guys running 36" Iroks and water in the tyres and they're wiping out hub bolts but not DT's... which is the same for us. We had a car on 35" Krawlers so bound up the other day the tyre jammed into the body mount at the firewall and bent it up through 180˚ - That's bent the BODY MOUNT 180˚.

In the stock form they are twice as strong. OFF THE SHELF not custom made in a shed OFF THE SHELF there are 10 times as many upgrades.

More nonsense. A hilux front axle isn't twice as strong as a DT equipped sierra diff, and there aren't 10 times as many upgrades for a hilux diff as a WT sierra, there are solid spacers, and cro-mo axles. Whilst it's clear that with these things a hilux diff will, indeed, be very strong, from a capability standpoint though you are already 2" in tyre size behind, so you're at almost a 38" tyre in our terrain to match a built sierra diff car. It's harder to fit a 38" tyre on a sierra and keep it low enough to be functional, and the reduction in ground pressure from a 38" tyre is unlikely to be an advantage on anything except malls and rock, so outright, it might no even be advantage to run a 38, considering the 38" tyred car gets diffed out at the same spot as the 36" tyred sierra diffed car.

Sure, you might not break a 38" tyred sierra with cromo hilux diffs.... but how much more capable is it than a 36" tyred sierra with suzuki diffs that doesn't break either?

In any case, you only need to be just stronger than you need. anything more than that is just added weight, which equals reduced performance in anything except pure rock. A heavier diff takes more HP to push up the hill. This is an area where generally we are lagging well behind the cutting edge. for the leading edge US market now, it's all about cutting weight, and high strength to weight, not just running the heaviest junk you can find that's cheap.

Steve.

[V.W.Dave]

One of the guys I go out with killed a DT on 32" worn out mungrals. It was in transition from sand to rock.

I don't believe you. Sorry, I just don't. If that was possible we would have broken a dozen by now. Have you read the Pirate thread on DT's? There's guys running 36" Iroks and water in the tyres and they're wiping out hub bolts but not DT's... which is the same for us. We had a car on 35" Krawlers so bound up the other day the tyre jammed into the body mount at the firewall and bent it up through 180˚ - That's bent the BODY MOUNT 180˚.

In the stock form they are twice as strong. OFF THE SHELF not custom made in a shed OFF THE SHELF there are 10 times as many upgrades.

A hilux front axle isn't twice as strong as a DT equipped sierra diff, and there aren't 10 times as many upgrades for a hilux diff as a WT sierra, there are solid spacers, and cro-mo axles.

The DT did brake but it was given hell for a few months before it broke. It was also at full lock giving it hell when it let go. Anything and everything will brake in time.
As I said in there stock form....

So you dont count 6 shooter knuckles, fifth stud, marlin seals, any number of the after market gear sets out there, pre maid trus sets, High pinion diff, longfields, dirty 30s, 2 piston brakes, 3 piston brakes, 4 piston brakes, pre made link set ups, we don't even need to start talking about rim options for 6 studs over zook 5 studs here in Australia.

Yes you can get some of those for suzi diffs but the point is you have to put most of them into a suzi diff just to get what you do in factory form in the yota diffs.

After a quick look and measurement there is only 48mm difference in over all size of the actual diff housing. That is only 24mm more hanging down further. So that is 2" extra rubber needed for the same clearance. But you can shave 18mm off a lux diff...

A little simple question how many comp buggy zooks still run sierra diffs????
How many of the weRock zooks run zook diffs???
How about Tufftruck zooks how many of them run zook diffs????
I counted 6 studs on every one I could see.




Its strange to be on the right side of an argument for once. But I guess even a broken clock it right twice a day.

[grimbo]

They arent building them for those comps, they are building them for their terrain so not sure what it has to do with the argument.

[BlueSuzy]

VW,

Some still run 5 stud DANA'S.

Pointless discussion yet again.

Love it

[Gwagensteve]

So you dont count 6 shooter knuckles, fifth stud, marlin seals, any number of the after market gear sets out there, pre maid trus sets, High pinion diff, longfields, dirty 30s, 2 piston brakes, 3 piston brakes, 4 piston brakes, pre made link set ups, we don't even need to start talking about rim options for 6 studs over zook 5 studs here in Australia.

No I don't, because they're shit and glitter. I'm not breaking suzuki knuckles and I know nobody who has. There's nothing wrong with my brakes, and i can fabricate so I don't need pre made trusses or links. I'm fine with four studs on my kingpins, because I'm not hanging high steer off them. This is about axle strength. Your axle strength is coming at the expense of clearance, by my and your measure, 1" of clearance. You can take 18mm of of your hilux diff with shaving, and I can take 18mm off my sierra/vitara diff with shaving. So, your superior axle strength, (once you upgrade to cromo) is undermined by having to run a bigger tyre on a heavier housing to match the clearance of a suzuki diff. So my comment about having to run 38's to match a built suzuki diff based on clearance is 100% correct.

If you run terrain where diff clearance isn't important, like the mall you don't need to run small diffs, so run whatever you want. I think you're soft if you're not running rockwells. Comps have nothing to do with recreational driving, and that's because of the rules, not the terrain. We drive comp stages all the time and have no trouble at all, but we're not on the clock. If you want to run hilux diffs and 38's, that's fine. Just be prepared that a well driven sierra on suzuki diffs might outdrive you. It's happened before. Weight and diff clearance don't care how many studs you have on your knuckles.

It all comes back to the terrain. I've competed in rock crawling events and diff clearance wasn't relevant. Here in Vic, big diff housings are pulling winch cable all day, and it doesn't matter what car they're under. Hilux diffs mean you're pulling cable when the hilux guys do... ditto for patrol diffs. If you're going to have to pull cable when those guys do, you might as well have room in the cab so you're comfortable while you are winching, so buy a hilux/patrol. All due respect VW, but that car you are building wouldn't last the morning on a hard trip in Vic, strong as its axles might be.

Steve.

[supazuk]

hands up every body who has a sierra that actually runs and drives and hasn't sat in a shed for 12 months in bits.