Diesel Mech Help - Advise Required - They Seized My 80!

[Surfin Alec]

I took my 97 1HDFT 80 series to a reputable diesel tuning / turbo workshop to have a full fuel service (injectors, valves, dyno etc).

Left it with them this morning and asked them to do a compression test as it had started to use some water and to see if it was a head problem or a f'd hose clamp.

They rang me back around 11am telling me they had a slight problem with my car. What they did was hose the motor down to cool it down so they can start to check valves cool.

Then when they went to start it, it hyrauliced on them. Apparently there was an air / gasket leak on the cross over pipe (I didnt know about it) and it got some water inside and of course wont start or turn over.

He has told me they are going to take the head off and check and if a conrod is bent, they will replace it and re-assemble.

My question is, after you hydraulic a motor, what else would you have to replace / check?

I was thinking that you would have to do the big ends maybe after a big compression force like that???? Would you have to check the crank?

Than what about the head, I guess you would have to get that checked too?

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated.

I have tried to ring them for the last hour or so but (much to my annoyance) the phone lines are down to the area from the storms today so I dont know the extent of the damage yet!!

Cheers,
Alec - I'm going for a beer.

[80's_delirious]

Oh mate, that really blows!!

I cant understand how an air gasket leak that allowed enough water into an engine to cause it to hydraulic lock would go un-noticed by you, particularly with the turbo. If it was allowing that quantity of water in, you would have been hearing it screaming like a cut cat as boost pressure escaped. Something doesnt add up to me.

I would suggest you have someone independent check it all out. I would think you are right, you would want the whole box and dice checked so you don't have a related failure down the track if something is missed now.

I hope you end up with a good result, nothing worse than losing an 80 to a dead engine


edit: I will have a beer for you champ.

[Wozza244]

If you ask me its the best possible outcome.
They wrecked it and now they will repair it, saves you spending the money on it!
Being a reputable shop they wont want you walking out of there with a bad taste in your mouth so im certain that after its fixed and you encounter any associated problems with it in the future, they would be happy to repair it at thier own cost. Failing that, consumer affairs.
Make sure you have them document what happened while it was in the care of the shop, then you have a leg to stand on.

[oldmate]

If you ask me its the best possible outcome.
They wrecked it and now they will repair it, saves you spending the money on it!

I agree, let them handle it. Don't go getting second opinions or taking the truck else where, that will only hurt any potential consumer affairs case because you would be obstructing the workshops efforts to resolve the problem.

Only if they don't fix it or try and hit you with a massive bill will you need to be concerned.

As for the bottom end, if a rod needs to come out then so will the big end bearings. If there is a problem there they will fix it. If i were you i'd get some new bearings chucked in anyway. But chances are the old ones are probably ok.

[big lux]

I a diesel fitter, workd for a company at one stage that had a problem if you filled up the eng oil to quick on a certain machine, would go back through the pcv valve and lock up 1 or 2 depending on what valve was open. there fix was 1 piston 1 set of rings and one big end bearing and a head gasket so you had one piston up on compression, if the eng had a few hours on it. I would maybe consider seeing if you throw a bit of cash in you can get yourself a cheap eng rebiuld out of it if the eng has a few kms on it.

[Rilux]

Sounds like they left a hose off. Pretty wild hosing the engine down tho.

It won't be hard to fix mate, they will just order a VRS kit, and replace the bent rod. It may have a couple bent valves too, they are cheap.

[bluemq]

WTF @ hosing the motor down to cool it off.

Who on earth does that to any motor???? (or hot surface)

[shakes]

sounds odd. if the engine was revving hard cranks are also possibly bent.

[RAY185]

sounds odd. if the engine was revving hard cranks are also possibly bent.

Just how many crankshafts are there on these motors?

[tweak'e]

Then when they went to start it, it hyrauliced on them. Apparently there was an air / gasket leak on the cross over pipe (I didnt know about it) and it got some water inside and of course wont start or turn over.

sounds suss.
it takes quite a bit of water to hydraulic a motor. even a split pipe wouldn't get enough water just by hosing. it would have to stay completely under water or hose constantly pouring on the one spot.
are you sure the boys didn't take it out for a play and drowned it ?

[Surfin Alec]

Well after a couple converstations this afternoon with mister man, it turns out that maybe it was a good thing this happened.

My head was stuffed, a couple cracks around some valve seats and a head gasket leak between oil and water (ahh thats where the water was going and why some minor sludge appeared in the rad!). The engine also had some trauma before as the head in No1 was really pitted bad like an injector tip fell in there and played havoc and No1 piston is newer than the rest. He rekons I was lucky not to have a valve snap and completely F the motor.

So he is sourcing a reco head for me, he is paying to replace No5 piston, head gasket and big end bearings and all re-assemble labour.

But he did suggest that while he has it this apart its not that much more for a new set of pistons and rings an a couple hours to hone the bores. I am starting to think thats not a bad idea as I will end up with a vertually re-built 1HDFT for half the price of a reco.

I didnt give him too hard a time yet on the "cooling process" and how the hell that much water got in yet as I dont want to burn and bridges untill I know exactly how this story pans out and how cheap I can get a re-build.

Stay tuned....

[shakes]

If you have the engine this far apart and can afford the extra it's definately a good idea to do the rest of the rings and bearings as well as a hone and inspect for any other wear or damge.

[Northside 4x4]

It really only takes about a teaspoon of water in 1 cylinder to hydraulic it. If they were hosing the top of the motor this amount could have easily leaked in through a stuffed gasket and run straight down one of the manifold runners to an open valve.

Generally it wont bend a rod or anything on the starter motor though. Did they happen to do a cooling system pressure test before hand?

The pitting on the cylinder head is most likely from water being drawn into the cylinder when its cooling down.
I have seen this quite alot on the old QD diesels when their head gaskets start to fail.

[4 Ears]

This certainly justifies the old saying "You attract far more flies with honey than you do with vinegar!"
By being patient and polite you may have saved yourself a lot of grief.
The fact that your mechanic is honourable helped & you might get a timely & inexpensive rebuild to boot.
A good thing!

[chimpboy]

Yep, fork for the other pistons. Fingers crossed he is doing the professional thing in the situation and you will come out of it with a nice motor.

[Surfin Alec]

Well I got the 80 home yesterday.

The bill came to a bit more than I originally hoped for but now I have basically a reco motor that seems to have been done very well. I am looking at it as a bit of luck really that this happened as the motor was ready to drop either a valve or drop a big end real soon.

I ended up with a new head and 24 new valves as the old ones were too worn, new pistons, rings, honed bores, new big ends (old ones were just about stuffed with sections missing!). New conrod on No5. He had all the rods balanced and checked for roundness for the bigends. Oh and new injectors too as 4 from 6 were shot.

So in the end it does sound "newer and smoother", goes a fair bit better but tuned on the dyno so it should use a lot less fuel than before and vertually no smoke unless I stand on the pedal from the lights I get a little puff.

Now I just have to get it dirty over Easter and have some fun.....

[4wheelinls1]

It really only takes about a teaspoon of water in 1 cylinder to hydraulic it. If they were hosing the top of the motor this amount could have easily leaked in through a stuffed gasket and run straight down one of the manifold runners to an open valve.

Generally it wont bend a rod or anything on the starter motor though. Did they happen to do a cooling system pressure test before hand?

The pitting on the cylinder head is most likely from water being drawn into the cylinder when its cooling down.
I have seen this quite alot on the old QD diesels when their head gaskets start to fail.

I tend to agree, you have probably gotten off lightly truth be known, most likely a pressure test watered down the cylinder no fault of the workshop. Erosion of the injector tip can be caused by water entry into the combustion process.