Outer Limits 4x4 Board

anyone seen the latest mag of 4wd monthly, apparently they have a simple yet effective modification for the 4.8 pettys, anyone know what exactly they were talking about on here. i should stop bein so tight and just buy the mag, if anyone has it and could let me know would be great

RIZZO wrote:anyone seen the latest mag of 4wd monthly, apparently they have a simple yet effective modification for the 4.8 pettys, anyone know what exactly they were talking about on here. i should stop bein so tight and just buy the mag, if anyone has it and could let me know would be great

zip tie the ??vacuum?? something?? valve open.

i have only just read on the nissan patrol forum about a guy doing this, there was an mod for making the auto shift more aggresively and another mod where a power valve actuator is cable tied open, apparently resulting in more power and less fuel usage, not sure if its what you are talking about but thought i would share anyway

Here is the link to the thread

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/diy-modi ... mod-44263/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yes thanks guys this is what i was on about, thing i dont understand is why wouldnt nissan just do this from the factory if its more power and less fuel,,,

McGyver wrote:i have only just read on the nissan patrol forum about a guy doing this, there was an mod for making the auto shift more aggresively and another mod where a power valve actuator is cable tied open, apparently resulting in more power and less fuel usage, not sure if its what you are talking about but thought i would share anyway

Here is the link to the thread

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/diy-modi ... mod-44263/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is for the auto this thread isn't it,, someone was saying about some vaccuum line off the air intake or something which helped with lower down torque. ill read the full thread later when get time, thanks anyway

Ive tested it endless time for so many customers claiming to have found a magical way to make more out of the 4.8's.

Its to do with the variable manifold runner length system.

When it is held shut, the manifold runner length is short hence will provide the best top end power.
All it has to do with is the air pulse wave timing at a particular rpm.
If there is 1 second between valve opening events you want that pulse to take .5seconds to go back from the valve and hit the plenum. And another .5seconds to return to the now open valve.

What the customer feels is a surge in power as it gets into its working RPM range.

What they dont understand is that they can now feel the surge of power because it is making substantially less power and torque just below the optimium rpm range..

Having fitted mulitiple aftermarket ecu's to these engines I can tell from the dyno results that the manifold valve increases power from 2500 to 3500 rpm. In tuning these types of variable maniflods and variable camshafts it is normal to do a power run with the valve open and then closed and then switch the valve in such a way as to maintain the highest power or torque.

Do not jam the valve open or shut.

Cheers

Joel

4wheelinls1 wrote:Having fitted mulitiple aftermarket ecu's to these engines I can tell from the dyno results that the manifold valve increases power from 2500 to 3500 rpm. In tuning these types of variable maniflods and variable camshafts it is normal to do a power run with the valve open and then closed and then switch the valve in such a way as to maintain the highest power or torque.

Do not jam the valve open or shut.

Cheers

Joel

Glad you said that. do these aftermarket ecu's make much difference power and torque wise or not worth the money?

The ecu or piggyback's are used to make the most out of other modifications.

There is round about 15% in power and torque to be had just in tuning, but with airflow modifications such as good air filter, exhaust system etc.. You can tune them to the full potential.

Northside 4x4 wrote:The ecu or piggyback's are used to make the most out of other modifications.

There is round about 15% in power and torque to be had just in tuning, but with airflow modifications such as good air filter, exhaust system etc.. You can tune them to the full potential.

how much does this cost for these tunes. just in the process of extractors and new exhaust for mine, was thinking a turbo setup bit this is a little extreme i think

Haltech do an Ecu for the manual tb48, which is a plug and play.
I went an Autronics Sm4 cost me $1500 from ebay, another $200 for chip upgrade, pc link cable and a new plug. Did a lot of the cable running myself had a pro do the final connection and run the last cables for $550. Tuning of the Ecu cost another $1000.
You can spend a lot more than this, can also do it for less just depends on how much you can do your self.

Wolf also do a plug in for the 4.8, it is their V500 and I have used both the V500 and Haltechs earlier E11 (In my own vehicle). Off our dyno a stock 4.8 makes 125 rwkW give or take, I have acheieved with 98 fuel, a Gen III throttle body, 3" exhaust and a V500 tuned, 165 rwkW, I got similar but slightly lower numbers from my own vehicle that had a Ford throttle body and a more restrictive exhaust.

Cheers

Joel

4wheelinls1 wrote:Wolf also do a plug in for the 4.8, it is their V500 and I have used both the V500 and Haltechs earlier E11 (In my own vehicle). Off our dyno a stock 4.8 makes 125 rwkW give or take, I have acheieved with 98 fuel, a Gen III throttle body, 3" exhaust and a V500 tuned, 165 rwkW, I got similar but slightly lower numbers from my own vehicle that had a Ford throttle body and a more restrictive exhaust.

Cheers

Joel

165 kw at wheels, thats quite impressive, how do you go with these gen 3 throttle bodies bolting up, is there much muking around with it.? how much are these v500? im keen to do this

Heres a picture of my engine, bit messy this was half half way through the install. You can see the Ls1 throttle body and the modified manifold. Its not a bolt on item.

RIZZO wrote:

4wheelinls1 wrote:Wolf also do a plug in for the 4.8, it is their V500 and I have used both the V500 and Haltechs earlier E11 (In my own vehicle). Off our dyno a stock 4.8 makes 125 rwkW give or take, I have acheieved with 98 fuel, a Gen III throttle body, 3" exhaust and a V500 tuned, 165 rwkW, I got similar but slightly lower numbers from my own vehicle that had a Ford throttle body and a more restrictive exhaust.

Cheers

Joel

165 kw at wheels, thats quite impressive, how do you go with these gen 3 throttle bodies bolting up, is there much muking around with it.? how much are these v500? im keen to do this

The mounting of the throttle just requires an alloy welder and 10mm alloy plate, you can cut off the origional mount flange, weld on a new fabricated one and port match. Wolf V500 is $2095 as a plug in but some wires will need to be run as well for idle speeed control. They are not too bad to do a wire in for as well as I go to the factory connectors on the factory engine loom where they disconnect as large multipin connectors. We are a Wolf dealer and I can supply, fit and tune.

Regards

Joel

Unichip is a cheaper option to the full aftermarket systems, I do them on the 4.8's for $1695 In the car and fully tuned.

Or if you have the cash to spare, go Autronic. Nothing else on the market comes close to being in their shadow.

Yes a unichip or similar product is fine on stock engines, they are good to fine tune but not so hot for modified engines turbo's and alike. Personally I'd use an exed from chiptorque or a Haltech interceptor before I used a unichip as I think they have a superior product. I use an SMT 8 from Perfect power as they have all the functionality of a unichip at a couple of hundred less. You also won't find it easy to install a larger throttle body using that type of chip as the 4.8 is a motor drive throttle it has a cable but the caable does not drive the throttle directly.

Cheers

Joel

I think the man that designed the unichip would be upset at your comment, and I also think he got sick of comments like that being made about the product.

So he built this just to prove them all wrong.

Also the unichip can do electronic throttle control no worries, Either manipulate a signal from the standard ecu, or drive the motor itself with input from the throttle.

I think alot of people still arent up to date with the functionality of the UniQ when compared to the older chips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqXvQ8X4UJI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and some photo's to go with the Veyron eater
http://www.quartermile.ws/forum/index.php?topic=6866.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the GenIII throttle body is a practical upgrade, is it possible to bootyfab an adaptor and if so, why isn't someone?

Or is there a bolt on one from the Arab's? Even though they don't use the OE manifold.

cool vid

Northside 4x4 wrote:I think the man that designed the unichip would be upset at your comment, and I also think he got sick of comments like that being made about the product.

So he built this just to prove them all wrong.

Also the unichip can do electronic throttle control no worries, Either manipulate a signal from the standard ecu, or drive the motor itself with input from the throttle.

I think alot of people still arent up to date with the functionality of the UniQ when compared to the older chips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqXvQ8X4UJI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and some photo's to go with the Veyron eater
http://www.quartermile.ws/forum/index.php?topic=6866.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You are not reading what I am typing, the factoy ecu is not likely to cope with a conversion to a cable throttle. I am suggesting a mechanical change to a larger throttle body as opposed to changing the opening rate via a chip or using another drive by wire throttle, the SMT can also do that. I must confess I am anti UNI chip due to thier early policy that meant you couldn't have any other software for tuning if you were a unichip dealer, they pulled the pin on a workshop I was at as the workshop bought LS1 edit when it came out. The eary UNI chip could only manipulate the MAF and not adjust timing independantly on the LS1 so when we started upgrading UNI chip vehicles to LS1 Edit they cracked it and pulled the dealership rights.

4wheelinls1 wrote:

Northside 4x4 wrote:I think the man that designed the unichip would be upset at your comment, and I also think he got sick of comments like that being made about the product.

So he built this just to prove them all wrong.

Also the unichip can do electronic throttle control no worries, Either manipulate a signal from the standard ecu, or drive the motor itself with input from the throttle.

I think alot of people still arent up to date with the functionality of the UniQ when compared to the older chips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqXvQ8X4UJI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and some photo's to go with the Veyron eater
http://www.quartermile.ws/forum/index.php?topic=6866.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You are not reading what I am typing, the factoy ecu is not likely to cope with a conversion to a cable throttle. I am suggesting a mechanical change to a larger throttle body as opposed to changing the opening rate via a chip or using another drive by wire throttle, the SMT can also do that. I must confess I am anti UNI chip due to thier early policy that meant you couldn't have any other software for tuning if you were a unichip dealer, they pulled the pin on a workshop I was at as the workshop bought LS1 edit when it came out. The eary UNI chip could only manipulate the MAF and not adjust timing independantly on the LS1 so when we started upgrading UNI chip vehicles to LS1 Edit they cracked it and pulled the dealership rights.

You make no sense, you can feed the ecu any signal you like with the unichip, weather it be from a cable throttle or electronic throttle setup.
A couple of resistors is all that is required to make the ecu think it is still driving an Electronic butterfly.
Ontop of that, there is no reason you cannot electronically drive any cable type system you install.

APS/Dastek/Unichip has never had that policy, either unofficially or officially, As I have tuned almost every other type of ecu and flashing software while maintaining a Unichip distributor license for nearly 10 years.
Unichip released the LS1 Unichip which took care of all these problems before LS1Edit was released, so im not sure why you weren't using the available product?
APS/Dastek did have a very strict customer satisfaction policy however, which did result in quite a few licenses being removed.
Its a shame they dont pay more attention to this policy still to be honest.

Me smells a dyno shootout. Pick me, pick me......

BowTieGQ wrote:Me smells a dyno shootout. Pick me, pick me......

Sounds good. 4.8 Dyno day would be treat.
I hear of alot of uber HP cars out there. But that is only talk until I see it in the flesh

ETC throttles in general need two forward and reverse voltages to satisfy the ecu, this is true for Holden and Ford, resistors offer a static resistance and a varible resistance would be required, yes it could be done but seriously with that level of modification on a stock ecu you'd be better off with an aftermarket ecu in my opinion.

In regards to APS, the fact is, regardless of current policy, we were given an ultimatem, that was to use UNI chip exclusivly or not at all, we opted for not at all. My opinion is that we were given the raw end of the deal, you can't argue with the way they treated us, you were not there.

As for a dyno shootout, it's only relevant if the same car can be on the same dyno with both tuners having an opportunity to do a tune, the figures of our dyno are generally lower as I tune in SAE- J1349 and we don't have the fudge factor offered by many dyno manufacturers, that is why we use the Dynamic Test System Prodyne. I have had vehicles on my dyno that have been tuned elsewhere with figures as much as 50-100 kW more than what we saw on our dyno before I commenced doing any tuning.

far out you guys have confused me now, so these uni chips any good or not ? as they seem to be the cheapest option then if i decide to go a turbo down the track i got the chip in ready to go,, is this correct? whats so good about these autronic chips?? with a aftermarket chip il pick up roughly 30rwkw is this correct?

cheers

Wire in chips such as the Uni Chip, XEDE, Interceptor, SMT 8 and so on are all good to a point. They all rely on manipulating the factory ecu by varing input voltages and signals such as crank/cam, MAF, MAP and so on. They often have injector drivers for additional injectors when turbocharging vehicles. You can in many instances you can fit larger injectors MAF's and so on however there are some limitations due to the limitations of the factory ECU.

Joel

Well I think if we have a dyno day. Each car should come already tuned. Regardless of what ever HP was made on another certain dyno the car will be tuned right and what ever difference there is between say our dyno and your's will be the same for every car on the day.

You are right about some really happy dyno's though. I get told all the time how much HP cars are going to make before I even put them up (generally the TD42 guys saying 250+HP) only for them to have the shits with me! because it only made 170-180hp if that, and that there must be something wrong with our dyno because the amount of smoke they are bowing equals 250hp apparantly

Yeah there is someone on Mudrhino claiming 230 rwkW on 37's with an 11mm pump, yeah right. It pisses me off to be honest, some shops just claim the biggest figures and adjust the dyno to suit. We have a VL on 98 octane that runs 9.92 on 8" street ET's and it makes about 350 rwkW on my dyno, we constantly beat guys claiming 400+ rwkW who are running in the 10's 2-3 mph slower. It's a difficult industry when the consumer is lead to believe that dynos are gospel when if fact most can be easily manipulated.

Joel

4wheelinls1 wrote:Yeah there is someone on Mudrhino claiming 230 rwkW on 37's with an 11mm pump, yeah right. It pisses me off to be honest, some shops just claim the biggest figures and adjust the dyno to suit. We have a VL on 98 octane that runs 9.92 on 8" street ET's and it makes about 350 rwkW on my dyno, we constantly beat guys claiming 400+ rwkW who are running in the 10's 2-3 mph slower. It's a difficult industry when the consumer is lead to believe that dynos are gospel when if fact most can be easily manipulated.

Joel

At least we can have a bit of a laugh at them while they are telling their story
But yes, a disappointment that there isnt more facts and evidence out there to shame the people that practice that way.

Lindsay