Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey all i'm looking at buying a surf and going the turbo diesel route.

The two models i was looking at are the 2.8litre diesel ( turboing it ) or the 3litre that is already turbo but looks like they only can be found in auto's

As far as i've found out the 3litre turbo diesel is an import model and has massive unsolvable overheating problems and more than likely would have to convert it to auto which would cost too much.

so the 2.8litre seems to be the wiser option, what pro's/cons are there for this model and what drama's can be encountered with them??

I've heard of auto hubs playing up and drive line issues , and of course head problems with the head . I don't mind doing preventive maintenance or rebuilding certain parts as long as it doesn't cost a fortune. Most of the driving i do is daily or weekend trips to the beach.

I will be towing a ski boat or car trailer down the track would this be able to handle it???

And what would costs be for turbo conversion and and preventive maintenance ???

All up my budget would be about 9K for a turbo diesel surf with bullbar/spotties/UHF/cold air con and 31's nothing fancy just for camping.

As far as i've found out the 3litre turbo diesel is an import model


thought all surfs were import, do you mean 2.8 4runner?

have a look here http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/index.php all the info you need is there. the factory 2.8's are all Aust. delivered 4Runners, the Surfs are all Imports and most have a 2.4ltr Turbo (2LT or 2LT-E) or 3.0ltr turbo (1KZ-TE) and normally a higher level of trim. The 2.4 is nearly the same engine as the 2L (2.4) that is found in a earlier Hilux's with a turbo strapped to it, they also came out with EFI. The 1KZ-TE (3.0ltr) is basically the same engine found in Turbo Hilux's and Prado's and are quite good. Both engines come with either manual or auto boxe's in the Surf's.

The Surf do have overheating issues esspecially the 2LT(-E) but if regularly serviced can be quite reliable.

the 2.8 surf is the budget model, basically a 4runner without the fancy trim. 2.4 turbo is the upmarket models.
the 3 litre models are far better but cost more. the overheating is fixable.

they don't use hubs, they use ADD which disconnects the half shafts at the diff end instead.

Coming from a 2.8 with a turbo... Definitely try for the 1kzte 3.0l turbo motor.

The 2.8 leaves alot to be desired, you will just have over heating problems in a 2.8 turbo when towing.

2.8 turbo is fine just to drive around but I wasn't impressed when it came to towing.

Only down side is the 3.0l is independent front suspension, but you can do a sas conversion if wanting more.

Brad

Have to agree, go the 3.0 (1KZ-TE) if you can you will be happier in the long run IMO.

brad 93hilux wrote:Coming from a 2.8 with a turbo... Definitely try for the 1kzte 3.0l turbo motor.

The 2.8 leaves alot to be desired, you will just have over heating problems in a 2.8 turbo when towing.

2.8 turbo is fine just to drive around but I wasn't impressed when it came to towing.

Only down side is the 3.0l is independent front suspension, but you can do a sas conversion if wanting more.

Brad

I did loads of towing with a turboed 2.8. overheating shouldn't be an issue if your cooling system is in good condition. sure the 3 liter is better but i would happily own a 2.8 turbo again.

btw my towing was sydney to melbourne towing a bigger than caravan size load of about 1.5T. could sit on 100 most of the time comfortably but speeds reanged from 80 - 120 depending on the up or down bits. though it would tow at 120 on the flats if i asked it to.

I never worked out the cooling situation, I changed water pump, thermostat, flushed motor, new radiator then new alloy radiator, repacked viscous fan- filled it with silicone fluid... And still over heated.. Then intercooled it and retuned it... Still overheating..

Now gone to a 3.0l EFI diesel motor n/a (had 70,000 kms on the clock) and that overheats as well...

Only thing it could be is bulbar, winch or maybe bonnet scoop disrupting proper air flow.

But even so the 1 kzte 3.0L td motor has more power standard then a 2.8 with a turbo and it is factory built. Wanting more power on that motor is only exhaust and dp chip..

But that's just my opinion

Did you swap to a 5L or 5LE ?, one of them has more blades.
Pulls a lot more air and bolts on to viscous hub & fits inside shroud.

Other wise could try vents like I used to have running factory origonal 2LT-E engine (factory head), auto & rad pushing 11psi through intercooler with bull bar, winch & spotties ..... no overheating.

brad 93hilux wrote:I never worked out the cooling situation, I changed water pump, thermostat, flushed motor, new radiator then new alloy radiator, repacked viscous fan- filled it with silicone fluid... And still over heated.. Then intercooled it and retuned it... Still overheating..

Now gone to a 3.0l EFI diesel motor n/a (had 70,000 kms on the clock) and that overheats as well...

Only thing it could be is bulbar, winch or maybe bonnet scoop disrupting proper air flow.

But even so the 1 kzte 3.0L td motor has more power standard then a 2.8 with a turbo and it is factory built. Wanting more power on that motor is only exhaust and dp chip..

But that's just my opinion

Faulty temp gauge.

I swapped from 3L to 5 Le motor using 3l radiator (5le radiator was bigger but plastic not copper- did not fit)

I used 5le (3.0l n/a EFI diesel) viscos fan (repacked it as well to make sure) with 5le fan blades..

And I have always run factory Gauge as well as quality aftermarket water temp gauge, you could see both senders on both motors did basically the same thing.
Edit- only overheats at highway speeds- 90+ km/h

let me guess, a 2.8 added turbo but no boost comp and fuel wound up. i wouldn't be surprised if EGT's where high at cruise. lack off boost comp can cause it to run hot as its over-fueling. the other thing is cam timing, sometimes the belts stretch throwing timing out. or the really weird is cavatation by the water pump and it chews out the back of the block behind the water pump.

I have a surf a 2lte 2.4 turbo dsl and have ever overheated it even when plugging through deep sand and reving the guts out of it... or towing the camper trailer...
the ADD system can be over ridden then throw in some manual hubs and you basically have a standard hilux driveline.. ok you don't but it will work the same...
around town you will get over taken by anything bigger then a mopehead but you get that.. off road it does fine and after some mods it will keep up with most.

just when buying an old can like these just remember to have a little set aside as you may end up with a lemo...

cheers

tweak'e wrote:let me guess, a 2.8 added turbo but no boost comp and fuel wound up. i wouldn't be surprised if EGT's where high at cruise. lack off boost comp can cause it to run hot as its over-fueling. the other thing is cam timing, sometimes the belts stretch throwing timing out. or the really weird is cavatation by the water pump and it chews out the back of the block behind the water pump.

I never had egt gauge on 2.8 but on the 3.0l it is controlled by the computer with dp type chip and dyno tuned.
Running 12-13 lb boost egts on a warm day towing up hills never exceed about 380-390 degrees that's with sender 1" from outlet of turbo on dump pipe.

I'm far from an expert on this topic but when my mate was looking at 4 runners / surfs the general concensus was to go 3ltr turbo diesel and put bigger radiator in as the overseas radiator is too small.

brad 93hilux wrote:

tweak'e wrote:let me guess, a 2.8 added turbo but no boost comp and fuel wound up. i wouldn't be surprised if EGT's where high at cruise. lack off boost comp can cause it to run hot as its over-fueling. the other thing is cam timing, sometimes the belts stretch throwing timing out. or the really weird is cavatation by the water pump and it chews out the back of the block behind the water pump.

I never had egt gauge on 2.8 but on the 3.0l it is controlled by the computer with dp type chip and dyno tuned.
Running 12-13 lb boost egts on a warm day towing up hills never exceed about 380-390 degrees that's with sender 1" from outlet of turbo on dump pipe.

but still using the small 2.4 radiator ? thats why the 3.0 would be overheating. with a small radiator things like spotties, bull bars etc will make a difference. don't forget bash plate's, that changes the way air flows through the engine bay.

edit: i forgot to ask before what temps it was getting up to. they all get hot under load. however a little odd that its overheating and its still going, it should have blown the head my now if it was really overheating.

my avice would be not to buy one.... my mate had one had nothing but trouble and it was really expensive on parts and was gutless

I've only ever driven one (factory turbo, auto), but it was soooooo gutless I nearly died of boredom.

Sorry to hear it sounds like your mate was getting ripped dave89.

Bearded1, sure it will be gutless comparing it to a bigger engine of the same era but get real, they are about 10-15 yo and if you wanted a power house you wouldn't be buying a little diesel in the first place.
My 2.4TD auto on 33's with more bar work (added weight) smoked them locked & went harder than a 3L Hilux on 31's ....

Mr DJ wrote:Sorry to hear it sounds like your mate was getting ripped dave89.

Bearded1, sure it will be gutless comparing it to a bigger engine of the same era but get real, they are about 10-15 yo and if you wanted a power house you wouldn't be buying a little diesel in the first place.
My 2.4TD auto on 33's with more bar work (added weight) smoked them locked & went harder than a 3L Hilux on 31's ....

Mate, I understand what you're saying, but I'm talking seriously gutless. I used to drive a 1982 2.2 (I think) diesel hilux for work and it had it all over the surf. Might have had something wrong with it I suppose.