Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I'm helping a mate rebuild his diff after gear failure. It's a Bundera diff using Nitro 1:4.3 V6 gears, an ARB locker and Locktup rebuild kit which includes a solid spacer and shims. I've rebuilt diffs before but only with collapsible spacers.

During initial setup/depth checking without the spacer we had no problems setting pinion preload, depth, ring gear backlash, carrier bearing preload etc.

When we came to install the spacer we started off using shims to set the length to approximate that of the old collapsible spacer. With this setup we were unable to get any preload on the bearings. We eventually removed all shims and whilst we were able to get a tiny amount of preload in the bearings it was nowhere near enough - even with the pinion nut tightened to max torque (max torque as per the factory toyota rebuild manual). During this phase we didn't include the oil slinger in the assembly and the nut/washer were greased.

Now i assume that we should be able to add/remove spacer shims until preload falls within the correct range with the pinion nut torque also falling within its correct range (all specs as per the factory manual). As we were unable to do this i assume the spacer itself is too long. Would it be acceptable to carefully remove some material off one or both ends of the spacer with wet and dry?

Does anyone have any other suggestions, or is the procedure/specifications for setting pinion preload/torque different for a solid spacer to that of a collapsible spacer?

Any help much appreciated

-Stu

Read through this stuff from a guy from the states. He is very good at what he does.......DIFFS

http://gearinstalls.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willy Hilux wrote:Read through this stuff from a guy from the states. He is very good at what he does.......DIFFS

http://gearinstalls.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers, a good link there, but (from a quick scan) it appears that he always uses shims and the need to machine the spacer never arises...this is what's thrown me here; why would an oversized spacer be supplied with shims? I'm concerned there has been an error elsewhere in our method.

PM 1madengineer he is the guru on solid spaced diffs

Are you sure you got the right bearings and or spacer?

If possible compare the size of new bearings to old and check for size difference.
Also is the solid spacer similar size as the collapsible spacer? length wise and size of hole to seat on bearings.
If the spacer is to long you can cut off extra materiel, but ensure that it is true and not at an angle.
With the range of shims supplied, I would not cut off anymore than what is supplied, and just cut more off as required.

What about ya pinion depth. This may be the problem.....

I just did mine. 80 series rear, solid pinion, arb locker, 4.1 nitro gear set and locktup kit.

With a solid spacer its a whole new ball game.
I had the EXACT same problem. I quickly realised I didnt know what the hell I was doing and didnt want to machine the spacer. I got a local 4x4 shop to do it. Unfortunately there is alot of d#cking around and some machining. If anyone has all the answers Im all ears as I still have my front to do aswell.

We ended up taking 0.2mm off the spacer and it all went together nicely. Incidentally the dust seal on the companion flange has more clearance to the housing (~2mm) so obviously one or both of the bearings are of different dimensions to standard. Hopefully there are no problems!

As a side note taking .2mm off the spacer with wet and dry is alot of work!

dogbreath_48 wrote:We ended up taking 0.2mm off the spacer and it all went together nicely. Incidentally the dust seal on the companion flange has more clearance to the housing (~2mm) so obviously one or both of the bearings are of different dimensions to standard. Hopefully there are no problems!

As a side note taking .2mm off the spacer with wet and dry is alot of work!

And after all that sanding, it won't be true either.......

RED60 wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:We ended up taking 0.2mm off the spacer and it all went together nicely. Incidentally the dust seal on the companion flange has more clearance to the housing (~2mm) so obviously one or both of the bearings are of different dimensions to standard. Hopefully there are no problems!

As a side note taking .2mm off the spacer with wet and dry is alot of work!

And after all that sanding, it won't be true either.......

It's true to within .01mm (the resolution of my verniers). Hopefully it's ok!

Had the same problem a while ago just machine a small amount of the solid spacer then use shims all good if you look at some of the builds on gear installs he also machines the solid pinion spacer sometimes hope this helps.

http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/blog/?p=400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there are 2 sizes of inner pinion bearings, 99% of the time the aftermarket US ones need the less common one . Its just that generally its the one that is least commonly available in ozzy rebuild kits. Also when setting the check depth make it jjjuuuuusstt slightly deeper than stock, and increase the carrier bearing preload to 150+ft/lbs.

Where can you get the gear marking paste from?

1MadEngineer wrote:http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/blog/?p=400

there are 2 sizes of inner pinion bearings, 99% of the time the aftermarket US ones need the less common one . Its just that generally its the one that is least commonly available in ozzy rebuild kits. Also when setting the check depth make it jjjuuuuusstt slightly deeper than stock, and increase the carrier bearing preload to 150+ft/lbs.

Thanks for checking in We set side bearing preload as per factory spec (flexed the housing +1.5 notches). Contact pattern wasn't deep but pretty spot on. Do you see any problems using the 'wrong' bearings as we appear to have done?

sloshy wrote:Where can you get the gear marking paste from?

Bearing blue (gear marker) should be available from any decent auto retailer or bearing supplier.

dogbreath_48 wrote: Thanks for checking in We set side bearing preload as per factory spec (flexed the housing +1.5 notches). Contact pattern wasn't deep but pretty spot on. Do you see any problems using the 'wrong' bearings as we appear to have done?

as a general rule of thumb we go 6 notchs each side as a starting point , then me on the end of a 2ft breaker bar. Get the right bearings!!! is all i will say..... and set some more depth (if possible)

1MadEngineer wrote:...me on the end of a 2ft breaker bar...

I use a similar style of torque wrench when my regular wrench isn't up to the task. How heavy are you and at what altitude is your workshop?

Thanks again everbody for the help. I'll let my mate decide if he wants to strip it all down again

Holy crap. What's wrong with these bearings? (it's my diff)

It seems strange that I got sent the wrong bearings. As I got the kit from locked and they knew what gears I had and so on

I know this is a bit of a grave dig but I just rebuilt a 9.5" Cruiser diff on the weekend with a locker, 5.29 Nitro's and a Locktup rebuild kit with solid pinion spacer. I had the same problem initially but realised you're supposed to set the pinion depth by shimming the big pinion bearing race, not the pinion. If you don't reuse your old pinion shim, you just shim the bearing race and then you'll need to add shims to get the pinion bearing preload correct as the solid pinion spacer will be too short.

I actually prefer this to shimming the pinion as the bearing supports the pinion closer to the gear/teeth.

She's setup nicely now: 0.05mm run out, 16in/lbs pinion bearing preload, 130ft/lbs on the carrier bearing nuts (not 150+ but it's for the street and I only plan on running 35's).

What? shim the bearing race?

Yep. There are shims for the large bearing race, not the pinion in the Locktup master install kit.

The only shims I got in my locktup master rebuild kit was the same size as the pinion spacer itself. It makes more sence to cut the pinion spacer down lower and then shim back to the desired preload.

TheBigBoy wrote:The only shims I got in my locktup master rebuild kit was the same size as the pinion spacer itself. It makes more sence to cut the pinion spacer down lower and then shim back to the desired preload.

And how did you set the pinion depth? Reuse the old pinion shim and call it good?

Most people don't have access to a lathe, making it impossible to "cut the pinion spacer down" and not have the pinion bearing preload oscillate.

It's much easier to use a drift and tap the bearing race out to adjust the shims several times then it is to use a bearing seperator and pull the bearing off/shim/press bearing on the pinion when setting the pinion depth.

If you use the shims for the race (which apparently you didn't get - maybe a new addition to the kit?) you don't need to cut the solid spacer down as the big pinion bearing is spaced further away from the small pinion bearing.

I was going to rebuild mine. But as with most confused people. No preload and I found the pinion spacer too big. So I just dropped it into a diff shop and they rebuilt it. WHY DONT THE SPACERS JUST COME SMALLER!!!

I just looked on locktups site in the 80 series master rebuild kit. And there was a set of larger shims (that I never got).

I had my last diff rebuilt at a 4by specialist shop and they had alot of problems installing it.. Long story short they had to machine my solid spacer from locktup too

Has anybody used a locktup kit without having to machine the spacer? Details?

Yep. Like I said, shimming the big pinion bearing race instead of the pinion means you don't need to machine the spacer.

Slightly off topic.

I have read a couple of articles about rebuilding the diff centers. I don't have all of the preload scales ect ect. Just wondering how did most of you guys learn to do this? Just reading or did you have someone with you to step you through it the first few times.

I handy on a spanner but this is something I wouldn't touch myself.

First you need the right tools. Dial gauge to check run out and backlash. Carrier bearing sockets and a big vice. A rebuild kit. The rest you can wing. Rebuilding a diff centre isnt hard. Rebuilding 1 with a solid pinion spacer is a pain in the ass but worth it. Put it in, check it take it out. in out in out. The normal ones have a collapsable pinion spacer. Its just crushes until the desired tensions are acheived.

Get a book and an old diff centre. Then have some fun.

Im running a locktup kit in the front of my 80 and had to cut down the spacer as well.

91Mav wrote:

TheBigBoy wrote:The only shims I got in my locktup master rebuild kit was the same size as the pinion spacer itself. It makes more sence to cut the pinion spacer down lower and then shim back to the desired preload.

And how did you set the pinion depth? Reuse the old pinion shim and call it good?

Most people don't have access to a lathe, making it impossible to "cut the pinion spacer down" and not have the pinion bearing preload oscillate.

It's much easier to use a drift and tap the bearing race out to adjust the shims several times then it is to use a bearing seperator and pull the bearing off/shim/press bearing on the pinion when setting the pinion depth.

If you use the shims for the race (which apparently you didn't get - maybe a new addition to the kit?) you don't need to cut the solid spacer down as the big pinion bearing is spaced further away from the small pinion bearing.

Wouldn't that affect the pinion depth? As far as I'm concerned the spacer under between the pinion and the bearing always stays with the housing.... It shouldn't ever get separated. I built a diff yesterday, changed ratio and fitted solid spacer ( machined 3mm off spacer) set it up with minimal backlash and the tooth contact was perfect.