Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hello,
I have been out of 4wding for a while and my wife and I are now able to get back into camping etc. We did have a Dmax but a financial problem resulted in its demise some time ago unfortunately.
To this end we have a budget of about 15k which should buy a petrol 80 series or Nissan GU or maybe high km 100 series.
I am thinking of a petrol model as we wont be using it much between trips and a petrol model gets a better car for the money from what we have seen.

Which would be better? Gu or Toyota? man or auto?I prefer manual myself. The car is to be used for camping trips and some 4wding but not over the top extreme 4wding as we are now both around 50 yrs old.
Advice gratefully recieved. Oh despite my name i'm not a ex 80 series owner, just a friend had one and I had to think of a nickname.
Thankyou.
Alan.

If you're not doing extreme 4wding maybe consider a Prado or Pajero? They are nicer to drive on the road and still capable enough for your average 4wd/camping trips.

Nissan make the better drivetrain.

Toyota make the better motor.

Thats my opinion on the matter, considering you wont be thrashing it around the drivetrain shouldnt be a problem.
The 1FZ-FE also responds quite a bit better to modifications (power and economy) over the TB45.

If the budget streches to find a good condition 100s 1FZ-FE, you would be hard pressed to find a better car for touring.

Or, Think about finding a good condition 1HZ 80series or GU/GQ if you can for less than 10K and spending a bit of money on turbocharging and possibly intercooling the standard diesel engine.

In either case a good couple of thousand of the buy price should be put aside for a major checkover and possible repairs if necessary as most GQ/80's these days require things like swivelhub rebuilds, diff seals, clutches, full drivetrain service etc...

Northside 4x4 wrote: In either case a good couple of thousand of the buy price should be put aside for a major checkover and possible repairs if necessary as most GQ/80's these days require things like swivelhub rebuilds, diff seals, clutches, full drivetrain service etc...

Good advice! I'd buy an 80 and spend some money for repairs. Moreover you should get some good AT tires, snorkel,... You maybe wanna buy a fridge, long range fuel tank,... It all costs some money

So don't spend all the 15k on the car!

Oh yes, Long range tank I forgot that one.

Most important on a petrol tourer if you dont want to end up either carrying a few jerry cans or being stuck in whoop whoop.

I previously owned an 80 series and now own a 105series cruiser. the 105series is a lot more comfortable, more refined, better layout, better seats etc, they are basically the same vehicle, but the difference in comfort is quite notice-able.
My personal preference is for a Toyota, but I think you will get better value for money with a GU vs 100 or 105series, GU are newer than an 80series which are getting a bit long in the tooth
GU maybe not as comfy as a 100series, but there are plenty of them to choose from and they are very capable offroad

it probably depends how far you intend on travelling.
you wouldnt need a long range tank in an 80. its like 145litres standard. which will be over 1000kms in a diesel unless the car is rooted.

but if your looking for just a 4wd for short trips i'd look at a petrol 100 series.
or late model 80series petrol and save some $$$.

Northside 4x4 wrote:Nissan make the better drivetrain.

here we go again.........

more research is required to back up that statement.

I was in a similar situation recently, had to sell my GU ute due to the arrival of our daughter so needed a wagon to take camping but not for daily duties. I started out with a similar budget as you but aimed to get the vehicle for 10G and have the rest to get it how I wanted it. Long story short but I now own a 80 series petrol. After driving a number of GU, GQs and 80's the 80 is more comfortable. Best bet is not to be brand orientated and test drive/look at as many vehicles in your price range and judge each one one it's merits. If it is just for taking the family camping you won't be really be finding the off road limits of either a GU or crusier so buy the best car not your favourite label. If you are happy to have a pretty standard car you can pick up a newer patrol or crusier but you will have very little money left to modify/repair it.

If the budget streches to find a good condition 100s 1FZ-FE, you would be hard pressed to find a better car for touring.

The thread should have ended here. Big fan of the 100 1fz as well they will do everything you ask, only complaint is a bit of fuel usuage.

I think fiscally the 80 series makes more sense. There aren't many GU's for 10 grand, but quite a few early 4.5 petrol 80s and even some high km diesels. That gets you a nicer car since in that price range you are comparing the 80 to the GQ. Leaving 5 grand for repairs and mods because inevitably an older car is going to cost you in repairs.

Hello again,

Thanks very much to those who have taken time to reply to my query. Some very good advice given which I have taken on board.
Just as an example of what I have found so far 3 sort of stand out as being ok before looking that is. All pretty standard units.

1. 1999 GU 4.5 Man ST gold colour 160 km 14500.

2.1999 GU 4.5 Auto TI Blue/grey 202 km 15000. Has diff lock option rear.

3. 1998 or 1999 100 auto silver GXL 215 km supposedly motor only 100km.
15500.

What do you all think? Is the 4.5 Patrol ok?

Thankyou again.
Alan.

1MadEngineer wrote:

Northside 4x4 wrote:Nissan make the better drivetrain.

here we go again.........

more research is required to back up that statement.

Dont take it out of context mate. Link what I said, and all of it. dont take a snippet to suit yourself.
I clearly stated that this is 'My Opinion on the matter' on the next line below it. Not facts or evidence or anything else. Based purely off how many toyota diff's and boxes I have had to replace over the last 10years or so, in comparison to nissan.

80alan wrote:Hello again,

Thanks very much to those who have taken time to reply to my query. Some very good advice given which I have taken on board.
Just as an example of what I have found so far 3 sort of stand out as being ok before looking that is. All pretty standard units.

1. 1999 GU 4.5 Man ST gold colour 160 km 14500. Good Buy. I would hit them up and see how much you can knock off the price before making a decision though.

2.1999 GU 4.5 Auto TI Blue/grey 202 km 15000. Has diff lock option rear. Ti is top of the range, diff lock is around 2K worth, high km's though

3. 1998 or 1999 100 auto silver GXL 215 km supposedly motor only 100km. 15500. Sounds to me like it has been an ongoing problem with the engine, Anything that has been rebuilt just to sell is almost always done on the cheap.
.

What do you all think? Is the 4.5 Patrol ok?

Thankyou again.
Alan.

Look around at a few more 80's Alan, you might be surprised to see some of the petrol versions going for 5-6K in ok condition.
That leaves you a good amount of money for repairs and modifications to build the vehicle to suit your needs.

Owning both a petrol auto 100 series and a slightly modified (engine wise) GQ TD 42 turbo, the GQ absolutely leaves the 100 series for dead in the economy stakes.

Around town the 100 gets approx 350 k's to a main tank (95l ?) with a 2.5 " mandrel exhaust and hi-flow air filter. It has approx 230 000 k's on the clock.
The GQ usually gets just shy of 500 k's to a tank (95l) running 13lbs of boost, tuned fuel screw, 3" exhaust and a heavy right foot. It has approx 290 000 k's on the clock.

On the highway the 100 didn't seem too much better getting maybe 400- 420 k's from the main tank.

Maybe consider spending a little bit more upfront an the purchase of the rig.......

Maybe consider a tidy GQ TI or the like and put an aftermarket turbo on the diesel......

My 2c.

Northside 4x4 wrote:
Look around at a few more 80's Alan, you might be surprised to see some of the petrol versions going for 5-6K in ok condition.
That leaves you a good amount of money for repairs and modifications to build the vehicle to suit your needs.

I saw a 4.5 RV model go for 3100 on ebay. Now that is cheap. Rego and all. Fair enough it was pretty scraggily, clear coat peeling and a few mech problems but damn that leaves a huge pile of change from 15k. Even fixing it all up you'll still have change and a car you know is in good condition.

My opinion on the 100 series is you are better off to get the v8 & IFS model. Other wise you are just paying more for an 80 series with a bit of extra fluff inside the cabin. May as well pay a little more and get the better steering/ride/power.

As for the patrols, really can't fault them. But apart from a newer year model and lower k's I don't see you getting much more for your money than you get with an 80 series. Only problem I've 'heard' of (other than the diesel engines) is the manual gearbox breaking 5th gear. But that just means i'd be more inclined to buy an automatic.


That 99 GU sounds nice. Redbook puts it's value at 11100 for 180k k's so there is definitely room to bargain. Remember redbook is pretty much what insurance goes off. So if you buy it for 15, then you will have to get agreed value to protect yourself.

It is a tough choice.

IMO - the eternal disclaimer...

all are totally capable of what you want to do.

gq feel super old - but if on a limited budget i would consider a well set up diesel one. bullet proof vehicle, power everything etc etc in a TI and if you can get past how they look will take you anywhere and do anything you want to do economically. I personally prefer to drive these onroad than cruisers as they feel more planted on the blacktop.

80's getting pretty old now - full time 4wd will be worn etc and $$$ to fix or live with the worn system. they are ok comfort wise, better than gq but still feel dated and old.

100's check out the gearboxes in them i know of a few with syncro etc getting scraggy in low km models - my mates 2nd gear was screwed by 110, 000km.
holy smoke they drink - loaded up (not hugely but loaded) we got 25+L per 100km on the hwy even more on the dirt and 4wd touring. but so nice to be in - drive line backlash was already there at 150, 000km. toyotas handbrake doesnt like to work for long which is annoying in an otherwise nice truck.
good power but your wallet shakes when you use it.

gu patrol dx still feels super basic but the st's are better inside, also drink like a fish, but i have less experience with their petrol engine. updated interior but probably only a step up from the 80 series and not yet as nice as the 100.

One of my fears with a petrol 4wd is that its usually bought to be conscious of budget... if you conscious of budget the cost of running it might stop you getting out and enjoying it as much as you would like. consider the 600km round trip sydney to coffs harbour - 200km locally seeing the sights etc and home again $500 trip in fuel alone. that would stop me using it.

On a final note for what you want... touring and not hardcore I would consider as mentioned earlier a paj or similar, ifs front but still perfectly capable as a tourer nice to be in and get a diesel paj thus keeping $ low to run.

my 3c

thehanko wrote:It is a tough choice.

IMO - the eternal disclaimer...

all are totally capable of what you want to do.

gq feel super old - but if on a limited budget i would consider a well set up diesel one. bullet proof vehicle, power everything etc etc in a TI and if you can get past how they look will take you anywhere and do anything you want to do economically. I personally prefer to drive these onroad than cruisers as they feel more planted on the blacktop.

80's getting pretty old now - full time 4wd will be worn etc and $$$ to fix or live with the worn system. they are ok comfort wise, better than gq but still feel dated and old.

100's check out the gearboxes in them i know of a few with syncro etc getting scraggy in low km models - my mates 2nd gear was screwed by 110, 000km.
holy smoke they drink - loaded up (not hugely but loaded) we got 25+L per 100km on the hwy even more on the dirt and 4wd touring. but so nice to be in - drive line backlash was already there at 150, 000km. toyotas handbrake doesnt like to work for long which is annoying in an otherwise nice truck.
good power but your wallet shakes when you use it.

gu patrol dx still feels super basic but the st's are better inside, also drink like a fish, but i have less experience with their petrol engine. updated interior but probably only a step up from the 80 series and not yet as nice as the 100.

One of my fears with a petrol 4wd is that its usually bought to be conscious of budget... if you conscious of budget the cost of running it might stop you getting out and enjoying it as much as you would like. consider the 600km round trip sydney to coffs harbour - 200km locally seeing the sights etc and home again $500 trip in fuel alone. that would stop me using it.

On a final note for what you want... touring and not hardcore I would consider as mentioned earlier a paj or similar, ifs front but still perfectly capable as a tourer nice to be in and get a diesel paj thus keeping $ low to run.

my 3c

some really good advice in this thread.

I have to agree the most with this one. try to stretch your budget to some sort of diesel or the smaller as the above mentioned pajero. in the long run the savings in fuel will pay for stretched budget.

As for your 3 cars to choose from i would pick the gold GU simply for the lowest kays. Are any of them on gas?

this may/will blow out the budget and i dont know very much about it, but i've heard of better economy results in the petrol GU's after installing a liquid lpg injection system?? maybe some one on here can shed some more light on the matter.

The diesel is cheaper to run is an interesting one. As I said above I have just bought a 4.5 petrol eighty after owning a 4.2TD Patrol ute. I decided that the difference in price of cars in this bracket and as it is not my daily petrol was probably a better deal. Below are some rough numbers (rounded for ease)

My petrol 80 = $10000
A TD 80 or non Turbo plus after market turbo = $15000

Average fuel for petrol = 20l/100km or at tonight's cheapest in my suburb = $28.38 per 100km
Average fuel for Diesel = 15l/100km " " " = $22 33 per 100km

Average distance travelled per annum 5000km costing an extra $302.25
Years to make back the difference in purchase price 16.5

I hope I got all those numbers right, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

There are as always plenty of arguments such as I don't need a turbo, I do more kms etc etc but the petrol option has more pluses as well such as cheaper running and rebuild costs (not out of the question when you are talking about a 10 - 15 yr old car)

Cheers Matt

Everyone forgets resale value. Diesels generally hold their value better than petrols. Although, if you are like me and usually stick with a vehicle until it is virtually worthless then resale isn't a factor.

You hit the nail on the head Matt.
There is a few more considerations to take into account though.

Diesels normally take a good 4L More oil per service (5000km's) than a petrol.
Rebuilding Diesel injectors $400-500
Diesel Injector pump rebuild $1500+

Replacing/Servicing Petrol injectors $300 tops.
Replace Petrol fuel pump & filter $300 tops.
Spark Plug replacement @ 50,000kms. $60
Lead Replacement @ 80,000kms $180

So the diesel will cost alot more in servicing, generally alot more if any repairs are needed etc...

I would buy a diesel if $$$ permitted, as I hate ringing a petrol motor's neck all the time for performance where the diesel just makes effortless torque.

Hello again,

Thankyou for all your replies. I will continue to ponder the varibles and pros and cons.

I still think im going to get a petrol power car that is in better condition than an equivilent diesel model, fixing up a older diesel I feel would be more expensive than a petrol engine should problems arise. Also the diesels in my budget seem to have heaps more Kms on them than some petrol models.
I am saying this but have no expertise at all the above is just what I thought.
Other thought I had was that at least I culd keep up with traffic in the petrol 80, 100 or Patrol, but the older diesels need turbos etc to get them going, add to the increased purchase cost kind of become impossible for us.

Thanks for indulging us.
regards Alan.

80alan wrote: Also the diesels in my budget seem to have heaps more Kms on them than some petrol models.

there is a reason for this, its because you dont want to drive the petrol far.

Matt and northside both make good points, but as also mentioned resale stays high on the diesels. matt on another note i dont know of any diesels that would use as much as 15L per 100 and in the petrol 100 i know of never got close to 20L it was always more like 25.

Good luck with the pondering alan - its an eternal question which will never be answered but as mentioned the info in this thread will help you realize which suits you best.

For me if diesel wasn't a choice and it was 80 v gu v 100 I would choose the individual vehicle that i found which ticked the boxes of maintenance, k's, condition and price to suit my needs. other than that they will all do much the same job. i.e drink and drive just about anywhere.

P.S The 100 i talk of would probably tick those boxes, from memory 170 odd k's and immaculately maintained. its been a tourer and is set up for it and always had what ever it needed spent on it - it would make baby jesus cry if i mentioned how much this guy paid to do things like have bearings etc routinely done for his trips. but it drives like new as a result. i dont know what he wants for it but i dont think it would be a huge amount over 15.

Off topic

thehanko wrote:Snip Matt and northside both make good points, but as also mentioned resale stays high on the diesels. matt on another note i dont know of any diesels that would use as much as 15L per 100 and in the petrol 100 i know of never got close to 20L it was always more like 25. Snip

I know arguing on the Internet is foolish but I will defend my figures a little. 15l/100 came from the 7 years I owned my GU. With 285s doing mixed touring (Fraser, Cape York plus highway runs Brisbane - Townsville) I could never honestly say I averaged well under 15. Sure at time I might of but when I did but then there were times when I went well above 15 eg towing a Kluger that was out of fuel from Lake Mackenzie on Fraser to Kingfisher to re fill and then helping it all the way back to the Eastern beach, that day the GU drank heartily.

As far as the 20l/100 goes well maybe that is wishful thinking on my behalf I only have one trip of mild camping to the Glasshouses area so far but I was pleasantly surprised by the fuel usage. Time and the soft sand of Fraser in August will tell I guess.

Back on topic

If you can find a 100 series in your price range buy it but be prepared to look at a look of cars before you find the one you are happy with.

Matt

15L isnt out of the question for a GU depending on what its towing, what mods etc...

But as for 20/100 out of the petrol. I have seen some down around 20-22 and lots that are closer to 24-28L.

Doing an extractor setup + unichip on 1FZ-FE and 2UZ-FE Cruisers is a pretty steady flow of work over the last 10 years or so.
I do get alot of inquiries regarding the fuel consumption of them. Alot of people now days though wont have the car long enough for the few thousand worth of work to pay for itself in fuel savings. The people that do choose it, mainly do so to have the additional power more than the economy though.

saying 15L for a patrol as an average inc towing - sure, but if you did the average of the cruiser inc towing... yee gods i hate to think.

my patrol is not the most efficient of its kind (modded turbo and pump) but i cant use 15 without towing more like 13.5 - 14 and my dads uses less (its stocker with turbo).

anyway semantics a bit, we can settle on diesels cost more to buy and repair though rare to need to, but use less fuel, petrols cost less to buy and repair but more to run.

each to their own. Its just in my experience we hesitated to ever use the 100 petrol as $40 wasnt enought to drive from penrith to sydney and back - the car ran out of fuel on the m4

Northside 4x4 wrote:15L isnt out of the question for a GU depending on what its towing, what mods etc...

But as for 20/100 out of the petrol. I have seen some down around 20-22 and lots that are closer to 24-28L.

Doing an extractor setup + unichip on 1FZ-FE and 2UZ-FE Cruisers is a pretty steady flow of work over the last 10 years or so.
I do get alot of inquiries regarding the fuel consumption of them. Alot of people now days though wont have the car long enough for the few thousand worth of work to pay for itself in fuel savings. The people that do choose it, mainly do so to have the additional power more than the economy though.

seriously?

My pretty kitted out 60 gets about 15-16L/100 with a 3f and auto

craz3d wrote:

Northside 4x4 wrote:15L isnt out of the question for a GU depending on what its towing, what mods etc...

But as for 20/100 out of the petrol. I have seen some down around 20-22 and lots that are closer to 24-28L.

Doing an extractor setup + unichip on 1FZ-FE and 2UZ-FE Cruisers is a pretty steady flow of work over the last 10 years or so.
I do get alot of inquiries regarding the fuel consumption of them. Alot of people now days though wont have the car long enough for the few thousand worth of work to pay for itself in fuel savings. The people that do choose it, mainly do so to have the additional power more than the economy though.

seriously?

My pretty kitted out 60 gets about 15-16L/100 with a 3f and auto

a 2.3+ tonne 4L petty, even with efi getting those figures is extremely impressive, especially in a dated auto.

craz3d wrote:

Northside 4x4 wrote:15L isnt out of the question for a GU depending on what its towing, what mods etc...

But as for 20/100 out of the petrol. I have seen some down around 20-22 and lots that are closer to 24-28L.

Doing an extractor setup + unichip on 1FZ-FE and 2UZ-FE Cruisers is a pretty steady flow of work over the last 10 years or so.
I do get alot of inquiries regarding the fuel consumption of them. Alot of people now days though wont have the car long enough for the few thousand worth of work to pay for itself in fuel savings. The people that do choose it, mainly do so to have the additional power more than the economy though.

seriously?

My pretty kitted out 60 gets about 15-16L/100 with a 3f and auto

Maybe 200s owners should go back to the 60 then. Most of my V8 Petro powered 200s customers are complaining of getting up in the mid 20's!

Where are you planning to go camping that you need the solid front axle?

If you're only going camping, and not too worried about weekend warriro action, my father's 90 series Prado doesn't have trouble following my brother's 80 series diesel, and uses less fuel. The 80 series feels like a truck to drive; the Prado doesn't.

If Prados are a little too new and pricey for your budget, consider the NL Pajero (last of the solid rear axle models). Not as comfortable on-road as the Prado, and the engines (both diesel and petrol) aren't quite as good - but they're nicer to drive on-road than a 'Cruiser, the 2.8 turbo-diesel will have similar performance to the 4.2 N/A diesel, and the petrol engine will be more economical (but less powerful?) than the 'Cruiser petrol. The 'Cruiser will definitely work better off-road than the Pajero, but the Paj has a very strong drivetrain, and an excellent LSD.

I'm more than a little biassed, and my Pajero isn't exactly stock, but I'm not aware of any touring destination in this country that it won't take me to with ease. I certainly don't struggle to follow my brother.