Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gday,
I'm running a little test regarding 2 Stroke Oil mixed into my diesel to aid in lubricating my injector pump and injectors. I own a 2003 HZJ79 with 240,000km on the clock. My car had developed a strange whistle (which I was thinking was a exhaust issue) and was hard to start hot (cold started fine). Searching the good old interweb I found a forum with guys talking about using 2 Stroke MINERAL or SEMI SYNTHETIC as a fuel addative. I know not to believe everything on the web (like their big power and l/100km claims) but liked the idea of increased lubrication to my fuel system.

I'll keep a log here and let you know how it goes (good or bad)

Car Details- Toyota Landcruiser HZJ79 Trayback
- approx 240,000km
- Refuelled with 2 Stroke Oil mixed at 200:1 on 18/5
- Km driven so far 113km
- Driving type - daily run city driving approx 6km each way
- weekend normally up the highway and onto the beach to fish, approx 200km round trip. Occasional runs up to Glasshouse mtns and Sundown NP

So far I have noticed the car runs a bit smoother, less fluctuation at idle.
I have NOT noticed a power increase, but the delivery seems smoother now. (I used to have a flat spot at 2200 rpm)
To early for an economy reading
The whistling noise sems to have died down, not gone but seems better!
Have not hot started as yet, will keep posted.

I'll keep posting as I go through a few tanks of juice and keep you all updated.

Mic

ps. I added Castrol Activ 2T oil.

PM sent

wasn't their a discussion about flash-lube in the diesel?

I read about this a while ago and was under the impression you should ONLY use mineral 2 stroke oil not any synthetics - cant remember why though. Some thought synthetics were ok others were adamant that it was not ok.

if nothing else its a fraction of the cost of 2T and the like.

be curious to see your reports.

I add 2 stroke oil to my TD5 LR Defender, also added it to my Jeep Grand Cherokee 2.7CRD (mercedes sourced engine).

I know the garage that shared a yard with me in England would put 4-stroke (yes, normal engine oil) into their customers cars when they serviced them. At an approx 1:50 ratio.

My observations are noticeable decrease in Noise, and the engine 'feels' smoother. None of my observations have been tested, so they really mean F*** all.
I don't recommend anyone else does this.

Luke.

theres a hole threadd on it on 4wd action its been goin for 18 months and still goin so if u wanna know anything thats the place to look

Placebo effect if you ask me. I did it for about two months until my injector pump shat itself- won't ever do it again.

probably as effective as a highclone

but 2 hyclones are better than one so would that make 4 stroke oil twice as good as 2 stroke?!

Gee wrote:Placebo effect if you ask me. I did it for about two months until my injector pump shat itself- won't ever do it again.

what oil did you use?

If it helps your old shagged out pump hell why not do it.

But the injection pump is actually a very reliable device, and on the 1hz can easily outlast the motor. That's just using decent fuel and keeping on top of maintenance.

If I was back in a diesel wagon i'd save the money other wise spent on 2 stroke and just buy diesel from a Shell on a highway that sees a lot of trucks. They look after their tanks better and you never get old fuel.

If you fill up in the sticks, then get a second fuel filter setup and change them more frequently.

Its all about replacing the sulfur, which did act as a lubricant in diesel, that use to be in diesel pre 2003 , it was a government requirement that all diesel go ULSD ( Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel ) around 2005-2006. Some suppliers started refining and delivering to the Australian market in 2003-2004

Make of it what you will, some support the idea of 2 stroke in diesel, some don't.

Have spoken with a number of diesel mechanics, some claim it will trash the engine in 5 minutes and the sky will fall and others are more receptive or supportive of the idea, but ultimately the choice is individual.

As I have a 2003 vehicle and it doesn't mention anything that i can find in the hand book re it being USLD compatible other than the use of Cetane rating of 45+ is required i thought i would give it a go.

Remember this is about lubricating the injector pump and hopefully not having to rebuild or replace it in my time with the vehicle - I intend to change the vehicle over around the 500K mark, so if it last that long without issues or repair them maybe it will have been worthwhile and at something like .0025 cents per km traveled I don't think its a huge cost to pay.

I would rather put "Oil into Oil" , as an additive than some of the highly volatile diesel additives floating around which if used at recommended dosage are far more expensive.

Have used it for over 80,000km now , Vehicle now at 155,000 km, serviced every 5k by me, fuel filter changed every 10K, injectors were reco'd @ 120,000km ( my choice, not mech. reqd) and there are small but definable improvements in economy which outweigh the cost of the 2 stroke ( I only use Gulf and Western 2 stroke - Have only ever used Castrol 2T in one tank ) - it has worked out to just under 1/2 litre per 100 km fuel economy improvement overall - towing the 1.1 tonne camper trailer it isn't really detectable.

Vehicle did become marginally quieter - thats no longer detectable as i'm used to its current sound. I just hear other sounds now
And it did have and still has a slight improvement in power in the midrange 1500-2300 rpm range.

I will keep using it, it has done no detectable harm, has done some good but realistically the only time when a definitive or indicative answer as to it's effectiveness will be when an injector pump thats using it long term is pulled down and inspected.

I suspect that any issues with I/pumps suddenly going a*seup just after starting using 2 stroke are probably more a previous issue with the pump rather than the 2 stroke additive.

As said there is a long running thread over on 4WDAction, I have been part of that since early in the discussion, the European and USA info is quite interesting, particularly the abrasive reduction tests / info , and some overseas have been using 2 stroke since 2003.

So far, in Australia, Europe or the USA there has not been, that i can find , of one instance of engines or pumps detonating or trashing themselves whilst running the stuff, let alone causing any definable issues - if there was i reckon it would have hit the Net in about 30 seconds.

All my figures and info given are all there also .

Cheers

chris_stoffa wrote:Its all about replacing the sulfur, which did act as a lubricant in diesel,

This is incorrect. Sulphur is NOT a lubricant, however there is a common myth that it is. This is because the process used to remove the sulphur from the diesel also degrades the lubricity of the fuel. Additives (often including biodiesel) are added to ULSD to ensure good lubricity.

Some IPs are lubricated by the fuel, some are lubricated by engine oil. I doubt there would be much advantage in adding 2-stroke to the latter.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

chris_stoffa wrote:Its all about replacing the sulfur, which did act as a lubricant in diesel,

This is incorrect.

I'm not a diesel mech or Mech engineer - so what the sh*t would I know, I take it you can expand on the statement to clarify the issue for all.

ISUZUROVER wrote:This is because the process used to remove the sulphur from the diesel also degrades the lubricity of the fuel.

Hmmm...... degraded lubricity of the fuel, thats good enough reason for me until proven otherwise.

As I said, some agree, some disagree , it would appear that i was correct.

chris_stoffa wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

chris_stoffa wrote:Its all about replacing the sulfur, which did act as a lubricant in diesel,

This is incorrect.

I'm not a diesel mech or Mech engineer - so what the sh*t would I know, I take it you can expand on the statement to clarify the issue for all.

ISUZUROVER wrote:This is because the process used to remove the sulphur from the diesel also degrades the lubricity of the fuel.

Hmmm...... degraded lubricity of the fuel, thats good enough reason for me until proven otherwise.

As I said, some agree, some disagree , it would appear that i was correct.

?wtf?

My point was that sulphur is not a lubricant. It is a contaminant that is very bad for diesel engines (e.g. causes oil acidification, etc - which eats away engines). You could remove the sulphur without reducing the lubricity of the diesel.

Lubricity of diesel fuel is mandated in the standard. Commonrail diesels need higher lubricity than older diesels, because of tighter tolerances.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

chris_stoffa wrote:Its all about replacing the sulfur, which did act as a lubricant in diesel,

This is incorrect. Sulphur is NOT a lubricant, however there is a common myth that it is. This is because the process used to remove the sulphur from the diesel also degrades the lubricity of the fuel. Additives (often including biodiesel) are added to ULSD to ensure good lubricity.

absolutely correct.
the process used to remove the sulfur removed all the natural lube components as well.
oil co's then ad lube additives up to minimum spec. however all that is expensive. don't expect them to use the best most expensive additives, everything is done on price. even with the additives it seams that the fuel lube is not as good as the old diesel. you also have to remember that fuel temp changes the lube value, typically decreasing it. so common rail IP get a double whammy in that they are higher precession, can not handle contamination and also run a lot hotter. so while they need better lube they actually receive less lube.

Some IPs are lubricated by the fuel, some are lubricated by engine oil. I doubt there would be much advantage in adding 2-stroke to the latter.

still worth while. while the IP is only partly effected the injectors are totally. saving an injector from sticking is very very worth while, otherwise it can end up with hole in piston.
also it seams that the two stroke helps clean the combustion chamber.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

chris_stoffa wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

chris_stoffa wrote:Its all about replacing the sulfur, which did act as a lubricant in diesel,

This is incorrect.

I'm not a diesel mech or Mech engineer - so what the sh*t would I know, I take it you can expand on the statement to clarify the issue for all.

ISUZUROVER wrote:This is because the process used to remove the sulphur from the diesel also degrades the lubricity of the fuel.

Hmmm...... degraded lubricity of the fuel, thats good enough reason for me until proven otherwise.

As I said, some agree, some disagree , it would appear that i was correct.

?wtf?

My point was that sulphur is not a lubricant. It is a contaminant that is very bad for diesel engines (e.g. causes oil acidification, etc - which eats away engines). You could remove the sulphur without reducing the lubricity of the diesel.

Lubricity of diesel fuel is mandated in the standard. Commonrail diesels need higher lubricity than older diesels, because of tighter tolerances.

And my point was that , something has been removed as even you stated reducing lubricity of the fuel, sulfur or otherwise, even the Shell website ( below) agrees with you, they claim to rectify it and i don't use Shell all the time.
As said, I'm not a Mechanic or engineer so I don't know the Nth degree of the details, if you could explain it in detail I , and probably others, would be grateful.
I also said that some will agree and disagree in its use, you disagreed - no argument there with you.

Ive have used it for quite some time and Km, am happy with it and am willing to try it RATHER than any other additive until proven otherwise.
If it was phrased wrong them I'm sorry for the misunderstanding

http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/au ... ur_diesel/

Will my diesel engine require additional lubrication as a result of using a low sulphur fuel?

Sulphur content is linked to the lubricating properties of the fuel and some low sulphur fuels may require additives to provide lubrication to fuel pumps and injection systems.

Shell addresses this at the refining stage so you do not need to introduce additives into the fuel. Shell Diesel 10 will continue to be tested to ensure that they provide adequate lubrication.