Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just wondering if getting my panhards down further and more level will help with articulation? I heard this somewhere wondered if it's for real?

a level panhard will keep your diff more central during articulation and possibly end up with less binding of your control arms so, yes.

if its on your front diff, you'd have to take into consideration your draglink setup as it's advisable to have pretty close to the same angle on both draglink and panhard to reduce/eliminate bumpsteer.

no because you would be stock standard.
If you drop the mounting points you have to make sure you do the same for the drag link otherwise you would get wicked bump steer. Keep drag link reletively parallel to the panhard rods.
Beyond level is best for flex.

Has anyone converted panhard mounts to rose joints? And same as with steering links ? It just seems my steering arm at the front looks a little maxed out, I've got
Molley steering arms but I feel sorry for the ball joints. Do rose joints have a bigger working arc?

Not sure which would have a larger angle of operation. The easyest solution would be to unbolt the the ball joints and measure what angle they reach before binding. Then refit to the truck flex up and see how close you are. You can also then compare the results you got to the manufactures specs on the rose joints compared to the the stock ball joints.
I mate of mine has been moving his panard rods to a level position with good results. Cannot tell you much more as he lives some way from me, so i only know hat he has told me. Moving the hight of the panarard on the diff will effect your roll centre though, which will change the stabilty of your 4by in different situations.

many kits for the JK wrangler lift the roll center from the axle end (relocate axle end mounts upwards). Generally they lift the front 3" as they are able to flip the drag link on the steering knuckle and this sits it approximately 3" above its standard location, so keeps them nice and level - also corrects the steep angle the drag link ball joints on the larger lifts) and the rear gets lifted anywhere from 1" to 5" depending on what bracket you buy.

The result of these modifications on the JK is the lifted vehicle has very similar ride to standard, less bodyroll, less squirm over bumps and a vehicle that is more stable when put on extreme angles and also when fully flexed out.

I do not have enough travel in my front end to fit a larger bumpstop so the modified axle mount and drag link do not smash into the chassis rail so I cannot flip my front end but I am seriously considering lifting the rear only. They just drive so much better. Also lifting the panhard (or trackbar as the yanks call them) higher from the ground reduces the potential for carnage?


From memory though the Patrol's front draglink is already on the upper side of the knuckle so cannot go any higher without custom a custom knuckle?

It is far far better for drivability or bump steer to drop the mounts on the chassis not raise at axle. In fact raising the mounts on the axle won't help at all.
If you raise the mount on the axle housing and hit a bump on that wheel the vehicle will still shimmy because the vertical bracket will kink out. Do some experimenting with models before you build it.

know much about roll center suspension stuff?

There is some good information on Pirate 4x4. Anti-squat is also good to learn. here is one link of an interesting thread http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is no one perfect setup. Each setup has advantages and best for different applications.

You do not have to drop the panhard to gain flex, think about the bushes ? how are they mounted?
look at the problem area first and that is the drag link ends , these will snap with any more articulation than you can push from a standard panhard mount setup.

The panhard does not need to be moved to gain flex.
Mick

Daily updates - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Superior- ... 9670614605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SuperiorEngineering wrote:You do not have to drop the panhard to gain flex, think about the bushes ? how are they mounted?
look at the problem area first and that is the drag link ends , these will snap with any more articulation than you can push from a standard panhard mount setup.

The panhard does not need to be moved to gain flex.
Mick

Daily updates - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Superior- ... 9670614605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are there any bolt on options to increase the working angles on steering arm ball joints?

will i get more flex if i disconnect the sway bars and will it still be safe to drive at high way speed

Technically, as the panhard pull the diff to one side eventually the trailing arm bushes at the rear and control arm bushes at the front etc tend to bind up reducing downward and upward pressure, and the bushes tend to not last very long.

In reality though as Superior said, flex isn't a problem with the panhard rods on a Patrol.

Any vehicle will drive much nicer and actually be more capable on and off road with level panhard rods.

So has anyone here raised there panhard mounts? And done something to make the draglink more level.

SIM79 wrote:So has anyone here raised there panhard mounts? And done something to make the draglink more level.

People have. There was someone on here who was going to get some dropped drag links made up. I think money is what is stopping him.

SuperiorEngineering wrote:You do not have to drop the panhard to gain flex, think about the bushes ? how are they mounted?
look at the problem area first and that is the drag link ends , these will snap with any more articulation than you can push from a standard panhard mount setup.

The panhard does not need to be moved to gain flex.
Mick

Daily updates - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Superior- ... 9670614605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes but also think about how the diff rotates during flex. This puts a lot of stress on the panhard bushes and why they wear out quicker on Patrols that can use more than 10" travel shocks in the front. If the the bushes at each end aren't aligned with each other at ride height or at mid travel position the bushes are stressed even more when it's flexing.
A mates GU with 4" lift has a reverse taper on the pitman arm to lower the draglink and a lowered panhard the same distance (braced to lhs of crossmember). The two arms are nearly parallel with the diff now at ride height and bump steer is hardly noticeable now as it's arcing starts almost parallel with the diff. It has 11.5" travel 80 series shocks in the front and can use it all without the draglink rod ends binding. Std arms and dropboxes too. The ride is so much better than before when it was 6" lift and drop arms.

Wizard Performance use to do the reverse taper on GU's only (GQ's already bolt the drag links underneath the pitman arm) and panhard rod drop to match but he hasn't done them for ages and so doesn't have the tapers anymore.