Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day all,

I now have a second hand P76. I have no plans to rebuild it, just use it how it is (was running fine, if it eventually has a major problem I will refit my 3.5)

I have afew questions though.

How much gas do they use? it has a 2 barrel holly on it. My 3.5 has a 4 barrel on it, is it worth fitting the RR manifold and 4 barrel or will the 2 barrel be fine with no real differance in performance or economy? I want to keep as good economy as possible as my current 3.5, with abit more power available when needed.

Also it was in a 4 speed RR, I have a R380. is it likely to have a RR flywheel (redrilled) and clutch? or does the standard flywheel and clutch fit? reason I ask is I have a new clutch and starter motor (clutch is 5000kms and started was replaced about 12 months ago) and I would like to reuse them on the P76.

Its already fitted with RR front timing cover. I will fit my dizzy as i have indutive pickup as aposed to points.

As far as fuel economy goes, I've found that my 4.4 on gas is better than the old 3.5. It seems to drink a bit more petrol atm but its done very few kays and the injection side of things still needs to be better sorted.
I know that the std rover clutch and flywheel wont bolt straight up but not 100% sure where the difference is as mine was an auto.

You might have also seen in another thread that the rover starter will fit the P76 but is a sloppy fit. In the long run a spacer should be fitted although i haven't yet and havent had any problems. If you need a template for it let me know rather than paying $50 for it like i stupidly did.

I get about 20L/100K on gas in my 79 RR 4.4.
This depends on gas quality. Sometimes I get 27L/100K.
Going off road ruins fuel economy.

On petrol I get about 17-20L/100K.
It is tuned for gas.
I'm actually going to purchase a dual ignition map kit to make things better.

As I didn't put the 4.4 in the vehicle I can't say what goes and what doesn't.
I know I do have a RR starter, and it has NO spacers.
I rebuilt it a few months ago, and there was no sign of cracking.
The broken one in a previous post is a 3M100PE starter.
Mine is a M45.

There's a couple of web sites devoted to 4.4 conversions.
(Although the link I had to Simon & Maresa's site doesn't work)
The inlet manifolds are not interchangeable.
The P76 is 30mm wider, so inlet manifold spacers are required if you want to swap.

One thing I do remember is that the RR timing cover and water pump are to be used. The P76 ones are too long, and will not clear the fan.
But as you say this has already been done as it came out of a RR.

So is it worth while replacing my 3.5 with the P76? remember I don't plan to rebuild any motors so the problem of parts dosen't matter


infact the P76 doesn't have as many oil leaks as my 3.5 (will fix the P76 before i install if I do install it)

IMO putting in the P76 is definately worth it. Compared to the 3.5 it feels to have HEAPS more torque. I was able to drive a lot of hills off road in high range whereas i would have been using low 2nd with the 3.5. (The 3.5 was a bit tired though). Fuel economy is pretty similar to the 3.5 so for the extra power and torque, you'd be silly not to put it in.

I'd say go for it!!!!

for only a little more $$$$ than fitting an old motor in my pos... I would just go a new 4L or 4.6L.... straight(well almost) fit...lots of power....
AND NEW
But seeing as you already own the 4.4 i would just use it... maybe pull the sump and check internals before dumping $$$ into something you might replace in a few months

TuffRR wrote:IMO putting in the P76 is definately worth it. Compared to the 3.5 it feels to have HEAPS more torque. I was able to drive a lot of hills off road in high range whereas i would have been using low 2nd with the 3.5. (The 3.5 was a bit tired though). Fuel economy is pretty similar to the 3.5 so for the extra power and torque, you'd be silly not to put it in.

I'd say go for it!!!!

ahhh the pain is still clear in my memorey
i can rember is all so well

go a 4.4 if YOU have to they are going to get very hard to fix / rebuild in the next 5 years

Mick

mickrangie
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:06 pm

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TuffRR wrote:
IMO putting in the P76 is definately worth it. Compared to the 3.5 it feels to have HEAPS more torque. I was able to drive a lot of hills off road in high range whereas i would have been using low 2nd with the 3.5. (The 3.5 was a bit tired though). Fuel economy is pretty similar to the 3.5 so for the extra power and torque, you'd be silly not to put it in.

I'd say go for it!!!!


ahhh the pain is still clear in my memorey
i can rember is all so well

go a 4.4 if YOU have to they are going to get very hard to fix / rebuild in the next 5 years

Why are they going to get hard to fix/ rebuild?

cause they are million years old!!!

Cranks for starters good ones are getting hard to find.. unless u want to use a crank from a 3.5... (i fink they fit)

u can use holdon piston etc but with few good blocks around you would just use a holden one..

good fanks

mickrangie wrote:cause they are million years old!!!

Cranks for starters good ones are getting hard to find.. unless u want to use a crank from a 3.5... (i fink they fit)

u can use holdon piston etc but with few good blocks around you would just use a holden one..

good fanks

How can you use a 3.5 crank in a 4.4 - isn't a 4.4 a stroked 3.5? so the crank will have a bigger stroke than a 3.5 crank??? I always thought the block and the crank were the only bits that had to be P76 - all the rest could be 3.5 or other components.???

landy_man wrote:for only a little more $$$$ than fitting an old motor in my pos... I would just go a new 4L or 4.6L.... straight(well almost) fit...lots of power....
AND NEW

What do you call alittle more $$$ ???

ISUZUROVER wrote:How can you use a 3.5 crank in a 4.4 - isn't a 4.4 a stroked 3.5? so the crank will have a bigger stroke than a 3.5 crank??? I always thought the block and the crank were the only bits that had to be P76 - all the rest could be 3.5 or other components.???

Correct, the 4.4 has the same bore as a 3.5 but has a longer stroke which is what takes it out to 4.4 and also why the block is wider than a 3.5. Also, the block and crank are the only bits which aren't directly replacable with a LR or other supplier part.

so thats why they are going to be hard to get / fix very soon...

DAS wrote:

landy_man wrote:for only a little more $$$$ than fitting an old motor in my pos... I would just go a new 4L or 4.6L.... straight(well almost) fit...lots of power....
AND NEW

What do you call alittle more $$$ ???

I built my 3.9L for under $3500... just need to look around..

Landy_Man got a brand new 4L short for a steel (under 1K)

yep... i picked up a new (well, 12 km's old) 4L short for under $1000...

IMHO... the p76 blocks are getting a little old now...try finding a crank for one...
then there is all the stuffing around getting it too work... spacers here...adapters there... too much of a headache for me...
will bolt my 4L in and with the 4.5 diffs should be sweet...

PM tuffrr and ask for a total $$ on his conversion to a 4.4L...
yes they go very well and pull like a train... but all the stuffing around put me off... not to mention the fines for breach of EPA regulations if running on petrol

OK, I'll bite.

We've established that the crank and block are different to the 3.5.
And these are the hard parts to get hold of.

If you already have one, why would you want to buy a crank?
Spun bearing? Get it ground & new bearings.
Rusted? Get it ground & new bearings.
Out of round? Get it ground & new bearings.
Broken? Get a new crank.

The crank is not something that is replaced in an engine often, so why the big deal?

Yes I have a 4.4 RR, but I don't think it is the be all and end all.
However this info about cranks and blocks is blown out of proportion.
Anything is fixable if "slightly" stuffed.

DAS, since you already have the engine, just fit the thing, and then make up your mind if you want to keep it.

I think some of you guys miss read my first post

DAS wrote:I now have a second hand P76. I have no plans to rebuild it, just use it how it is (was running fine, if it eventually has a major problem I will refit my 3.5)

I don't have $3500 grand to spend on a motor, don't even have $1000 to spend. parts don't bother me, if something breaks internally I will put my old 3.5 in.

yes a 4l with 4.5's will be nice for you landy_man, but i have 4.1's installed, still have to fit different transfer case as I have auto high range gears) and I would like abit more power (and no EFI!!!), still got lockers on the bench to go in and I will comfortable run 35's (if I want, got 255/85 r16's atm)

just incase you guys weren't aware this is my daily driver as well. And I am building a new project Landy 300tdi 4.7's

I'm sure you will be happy with it DAS, although the fuel consumption will be a bit high.

A mate built a 100" S1/RR hybrid with a P/6 4.4. It ran 33's and 3.54's (LT95) and would idle up the steepest hill in 3rd low. They are an extremely torquey motor. He now lives in a small town with no LPG and high fuel prices though, so he pulled the engine out and fitted a 3.9ISUZU turbo.

Does anyone have a copy of Simon & Maresa's 4.4 conversion they used to have on their web site. I read it years ago and now need to refer to it again.

Thanks

bundyrum4x4 wrote:Does anyone have a copy of Simon & Maresa's 4.4 conversion they used to have on their web site. I read it years ago and now need to refer to it again.

Thanks

No, but here's a link to another site that maybe useful.
http://andic.co.nz/id22.htm

Ralf the RR wrote:

bundyrum4x4 wrote:Does anyone have a copy of Simon & Maresa's 4.4 conversion they used to have on their web site. I read it years ago and now need to refer to it again.

Thanks

No, but here's a link to another site that maybe useful.
http://andic.co.nz/id22.htm

Good one!

Thanks