Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Thinking of buying a MIG to replace the Arc welder.

What are peoples thoughts on gasless MIGs as opposed to the gas setups ?

Any other things to look for or avoid ?

This is similiar to what I was looking at.

http://www.tradetools.com.au/ProdView.a ... uct=PAN172


Thanks all

Gasless migs have been around for awhile but never really sold that well, their bigest advantage is no cumbersome gas bottle which you have the additional cost of renting to add to the costs of running.

I have used them and they are ok and they are best suited for outdoor work, ideal for the onsite tradesman as such. The problem with the bottle type mig is wind and how it blows the gas away from the welding point, this causes perosity in the weld.

Its a personal choice thing but I would go for a bottle type mig over a gasless setup every time, main reason being that you can always get the gas cored wire and fit it to a botle type mig, this way you have the best of both worlds.

You also didnt say as to the intended use if this new toy, If your use is only occasional then maybe a small unit would suffice but if you intend to work it on a daily or even weekly basis then perhaps a larger unit would be better. I'd recemend a mig that is capable of atleast 180amps or higher, also check the "Duty Cycle" of the unit.

The duty cycle is a scale of availiable use for want of a better description, nothing worse than having to do a heap of welding only to find out that the machine stops to cool down every 10 mins and there aint nuthin ya can do about it.

the other fing to think about is do u want 10 or 15 amp unit???

The biggest 10amp unit i could find at the time of buying my mig was a CigWeld 165... does the job i do a sh!t load of welding on all sorts of different steels up to 15 mm cracks the shit a little but does the job...


HTH
Mick

Just want to use it as a weekend hobby tool.

Welding trailer frames and a bit a fab and repair work. Didn't even think about amps but as I think I understand it, you need 15 amp outlets if not already fitted ?

If so definitely 10 amp as I rent the place I'm in....

Go the gas mig, you can set it up to weld Ali and stainless, and get the biggest one you can afford. Buy it once and you will never regret it

I use a 260 amp Migomag and can't complain, never had a problem with it and its gets used all the time for farm machinery fab and repairs, use it on a 10 and 15 amp supply, If you have a 10 amp supply don't turn it up so high. And yes if you use it outside/windy conditions it is a PITA.

whats duty cycle mean can some1 explain it 4 me

which is betta?
Duty Cycle 35% @ 160 Amps
or
Duty Cycle 20% @ 200 Amps

DO NOT BUY A GASLESS MIG
Their I said it and I know some is guna flame me for it and I don't give a
I brought one and it was the biggst waste of money ever.
no good for sheet metal coz it just blows holes in it, no good for tube because it dosen't have the penetration, and no good as a door stop because I don't want my mates to know I blew my cash on it. Do what I should have done and spend the extra and get a gas one.

BTW It's not my welding either because my father in law who is a qualifed and working boiler maker spent one whole day and a mini spool of wire trying to get it to weld 1in box

I just filed down the 15 amp plug on my welder to make it fit a 10 amp socket. Had to do the same with my compressor.

Welding at high amps for a while and the circuit breaker will trip occasionaly. I dont think it does any harm however am willing to stand corrected by an electrician.

Mark2 wrote:I just filed down the 15 amp plug on my welder to make it fit a 10 amp socket. Had to do the same with my compressor.

Welding at high amps for a while and the circuit breaker will trip occasionaly. I dont think it does any harm however am willing to stand corrected by an electrician.

it will eventually burn out the wiring dude, get some1 2 run a 15amp circuit and do it right. but its your house thats gunna burn not mine

hypolux wrote:

Mark2 wrote:I just filed down the 15 amp plug on my welder to make it fit a 10 amp socket. Had to do the same with my compressor.

Welding at high amps for a while and the circuit breaker will trip occasionaly. I dont think it does any harm however am willing to stand corrected by an electrician.

it will eventually burn out the wiring dude, get some1 2 run a 15amp circuit and do it right. but its your house thats gunna burn not mine

Are you an electrician???

While I agree it's not ideal I use a 15A welder on a 10A circuit too. An electrician mate said it won't be a problem, just try not to run too many other appliances at the same time.

redzook wrote:whats duty cycle mean can some1 explain it 4 me

which is betta?
Duty Cycle 35% @ 160 Amps
or
Duty Cycle 20% @ 200 Amps

any1?

ISUZUROVER wrote:

hypolux wrote:

Mark2 wrote:I just filed down the 15 amp plug on my welder to make it fit a 10 amp socket. Had to do the same with my compressor.

Welding at high amps for a while and the circuit breaker will trip occasionaly. I dont think it does any harm however am willing to stand corrected by an electrician.

it will eventually burn out the wiring dude, get some1 2 run a 15amp circuit and do it right. but its your house thats gunna burn not mine

Are you an electrician???

While I agree it's not ideal I use a 15A welder on a 10A circuit too. An electrician mate said it won't be a problem, just try not to run too many other appliances at the same time.

the cable that runs into the back of your 10 amp power point is actually rated at 16 amps. so while not ideal, if you don't run too much other junk at the same time, you're not going to burn anything out..

redzook wrote:

redzook wrote:whats duty cycle mean can some1 explain it 4 me

which is betta?
Duty Cycle 35% @ 160 Amps
or
Duty Cycle 20% @ 200 Amps

any1?

with that example you can weld for 35 minutes out of every 100 minutes at 160 amps, or 20 minutes every 100 minutes at 200 amps..
which is better depends on what amperage you want to weld at..

Duty cycle is as mentioned how much percent of the time you can weld at the given amps.
Most MIGs will have a low duty cycle at their maximum amperage.
For CIG this measurement is percantage in 10mins at 45deg C.
So usually you can get a bit more at lower ambient temps.
As an example the CIG transmig200 has a duty cycle of 15% at 190 amps and 100% at 90 amps.
Paul.

Wendle wrote:

redzook wrote:

redzook wrote:whats duty cycle mean can some1 explain it 4 me

which is betta?
Duty Cycle 35% @ 160 Amps
or
Duty Cycle 20% @ 200 Amps

any1?

with that example you can weld for 35 minutes out of every 100 minutes at 160 amps, or 20 minutes every 100 minutes at 200 amps..
which is better depends on what amperage you want to weld at..

cool thanks for that

Anyone else reckon the gasless ones are no good?

Cuz i'm thinking of getting one of those Unimig Gasless Welders at Tradetools.

Mad Cruiser wrote:Anyone else reckon the gasless ones are no good?

Cuz i'm thinking of getting one of those Unimig Gasless Welders at Tradetools.

IMHO Gassless MIGS are just like Arcwelders... only good for a mid range of weekend type work....

Get the bigest gas/gasless mig u can afford and you will never look back..

BTW gasless wire is about $98 buks a 5kg roll v's 15 - 20 buks for gas wire..
bottle rental is about 130 buk for the first time with a full 'e' size bottle and 60 buks to fill it everytime after... so do the math if you want nice clean weld you don't have to grind and hide it must be a gas mig if you don't want gas get a good arc welder DON'T get just a GASLESS MIG they are rank!!!

HTH
Mick

Mad Cruiser wrote:Anyone else reckon the gasless ones are no good?

Cuz i'm thinking of getting one of those Unimig Gasless Welders at Tradetools.

MC -gasless - no good as we spoke the other day. Andrew and Greg (welders) here the other day who welded up my rear bar used a 100 amp gas mig.. Just did both sides of the weld as the 100 amp wasnt enough. Now its strong as hell

TOM

All good info, thanks guys.

Gas MIG it is

Go with a gas mig. Much cleaner weld and cheaper in the long run. Try and get one with a copper core transformer and internal fan for cooling. Don't skimp on the price, you get what you pay for. See if you can get a roll of wire and/or a face shield thrown in for free when you get it... Worth a try.

Duty cycle is the period of time that you can use the equipment at that amperge in a 10 minuite period.

Michael.

Wendle wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

hypolux wrote:

Mark2 wrote:I just filed down the 15 amp plug on my welder to make it fit a 10 amp socket. Had to do the same with my compressor.

Welding at high amps for a while and the circuit breaker will trip occasionaly. I dont think it does any harm however am willing to stand corrected by an electrician.

it will eventually burn out the wiring dude, get some1 2 run a 15amp circuit and do it right. but its your house thats gunna burn not mine

Are you an electrician???

While I agree it's not ideal I use a 15A welder on a 10A circuit too. An electrician mate said it won't be a problem, just try not to run too many other appliances at the same time.

the cable that runs into the back of your 10 amp power point is actually rated at 16 amps. so while not ideal, if you don't run too much other junk at the same time, you're not going to burn anything out..

That may be true but the problem comes from when you actually read spec plate of a 15A rated welder, especially inverter type caddies, that they may in fact draw somewhere near 30 amps when at full load. They get away with this by having a low duty cycle to stop nuisance tripping of circuit breakers. Running 15 amp rated devices on an old school 10 amp cicuit is bad news, not always, but I've seen it many times around where I'm from, that being a farming area where everyone man and his dog has a welder of some sort. Rewires are very popular with farmers.

You can get caught out when you lend your converted 10 Amp welder to a mate who lives in an older house with old wiring. Food for thought.