Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Anyone got a 302 windsor v8 in their GQ, or some other ford v8?

I get a bonus later this year (we made more than $10M profit, yay) and I *might* put it into a v8 conversion for the Maverick, depending on how my finances are going in other respects.

Been looking at specs for chevs and of course the vh45 as well, but now the windsor 302 is starting to appeal as it's common and puts its torque pretty low in the rev range. Basically I want 200kW plus, as cheaply and reliably as I can get it... whatcha think of the windsors?

Also, it's gotta be a newish (post 90s) motor as I don't want to run straight LPG...

I am finding it bloody hard to even get reliable numbers on the ford and chev motors as all my web searches return these insane modified engines with 90000000 horsepower at 90000000 rpm...

Jason

chimpboy wrote:with 90000000 horsepower at 90000000 rpm...

Jason

I'll take 2 thanks

why not go an XR6T motor if you can get it to adapt / fit?

robbie wrote:why not go an XR6T motor if you can get it to adapt / fit?

would be well sought after and would not be cheap!!

RB30et? Same as the 3 litre nissan motor that came out in gq's but with a turbo (vl turbo engine) easy to bolt in makes 150kw stock with low boost and no intercooler - not hard to go over 200...... sandy from ausfwd had one - was recently in trading post.
Not sure about kits for windsors, most people use chevs for some reason?

Patroler wrote:Not sure about kits for windsors, most people use chevs for some reason?

cause you can get a kit for it, and dozens have done it, so plenty of info on the mods, and they are a better donk than a ford..

There's kits for windsors pretty readily available too.

Patroler wrote:RB30et? Same as the 3 litre nissan motor that came out in gq's but with a turbo (vl turbo engine) easy to bolt in makes 150kw stock with low boost and no intercooler - not hard to go over 200...... sandy from ausfwd had one - was recently in trading post.
Not sure about kits for windsors, most people use chevs for some reason?

I have an aversion to turbos. I know I can't justify it but I have it anyway. It's to do with revs and heat, but let's not have that debate. I also don't think I want to go down in cubic inches if I am going to the trouble of an engine swap.

According to the catalogue, Geoff Dellow does kits to fit a 302/351 to a GQ 5-speed, I assume these are windsors but I don't know that much about american engines.

It wouldn't sway me if the other options were clearly superior, but all else being equal I wouldn't mind having a ford engine in the "ford" maverick

Jason

302/351 to a GQ 5-speed, I assume these are windsors

Or could be Cleveland!!

The Windsor motors tend to rev more, where as the Clevo should have more stump pullin torque!

Ford V8 parts tend to be more $$$$$$$$$ than other makes!

Hope that helps a little!

The foward facing sump might be a problem with a Windsor. You might need to get a rearward facing sump from a BRONCO to solve this problem. Also you would definantly want to go for one with fuel injection.

Nick

I have an aversion to turbos. I know I can't justify it but I have it anyway. It's to do with revs and heat, but let's not have that debate. I also don't think I want to go down in cubic inches if I am going to the trouble of an engine swap.

According to the catalogue, Geoff Dellow does kits to fit a 302/351 to a GQ 5-speed, I assume these are windsors but I don't know that much about american engines.

Yeah no debate necessary I've had a couple of turbo cars and now have a 383 chev in my patrol , they all have advantages! but each to their own.
Often when people say 302/351 they're talking clevelands, as the main differences are crank rods pistons heads, same block.
With windsors the 302 is closer to the 289 in design, I think the 351w may have a different block (deck height??)
The 302w is also lighter and narrower than the 302c, the windsor was what was found in aussie fords from the EB falcon to AU - all injected.
Clevelands ran from early days 1970ish to mid 80s XE - all carbys.

the kit is for clevo, but should fit windsor as well, as the bellhousing, and mounts are the same. maybe the spacer for the crank MAY be different. if you put in a clevo, all you need is a standard rebuild, with minor porting, and a cam and manifold, extractors, and you should quite easily make close to 350 - 400 hp, with plenty of torque, all at reasonably low revs. peak around 6000rpm. you would have to spend MORE on a chev, for that power. either a good holley, or aftermarket efi will be fairly easy. i think crawler had a projection kit for sale?

How would these Holly Projection or any other aftermarket style throttle body injection go in a fourby?
Are they still legal? Ie when you have to use an injected motor because of regulations could you put this on and be legal??

What year model is yours Jason?

if you tuned it and it made the same emmisions, it should be ok.

fatassgq wrote:What year model is yours Jason?

The Maverick is a 93 - technically December 92 I think.

So I think I would need a later motor than this to transplant in.

I am tossing up wether or not to do something like this also at the moment!
I have a perfectly good intercooled turbo diesel in the truck but I want a petrol!
Go figure. Sometimes I annoy myself being so unreasonable!! lol

Would love an injected big block. Just a full stocko one that is just monstor torque. The windsor would be a good motor too but I don't think the adaptor parts are as readily available.

The vh45 just wouldn't have the torque down low I feel for my truck it is too heavy.

Do you want to keep the manual or go auto
I know the nissan boxes are strong but I am not sure if they would take a big block or even a 351 injected ford motor. Would be a lot cheaper if they did though.
Good luck with it. please share any info you get I would appreciate it heaps.

i would believe that the nissan manual gearboxes are strong enough to cope with the power, what it will come down to, is your driving manner,
i have seen many GQ boxes with v8's in front and they are running fine.

fatassgq wrote:Would love an injected big block. Just a full stocko one that is just monstor torque. The windsor would be a good motor too but I don't think the adaptor parts are as readily available.

I will get in touch with Dellow Auto and see if there are any availability problems with their 302/351 -> GQ adaptor, maybe find out prices as well if I can.

fatassgq wrote:Do you want to keep the manual or go auto
I know the nissan boxes are strong but I am not sure if they would take a big block or even a 351 injected ford motor. Would be a lot cheaper if they did though.
Good luck with it. please share any info you get I would appreciate it heaps.

I would prefer to keep the Nissan manual gearbox. By all reports they are strong enough to handle pretty much anything.

I really want to see some side by side torque/power graphs for the chev and the ford v8 options, my impression is that the windsors offer more torque down low. I'm also getting the feeling that the 302 is preferable to the 351 overall, as you can get almost the same power but you can also get something resembling fuel economy.

But I dunno, I'll keep looking!

Anyway nobody's said anything yet that makes it sound like a windsor would be a really bad choice. I wish people who say "chevs are better" would say why!

Jason

*I'm just suddenly, on a totally separate point, wondering whether I could easily sit the new motor a bit further forward, and the gearbox as well, to make it easier to fit a 2nd transfer case...

chimpboy wrote:Anyway nobody's said anything yet that makes it sound like a windsor would be a really bad choice. I wish people who say "chevs are better" would say why!

Jason

I did .........

In the PM I wrote:Biggest problem is the dizzy .... well not so much the dizzy but its location, because its up the front on a ford it is very prone to water getting in. It absolutely flies off of the fan and is virtually "pumped" into the dizzy.

With the chev motor the dizzy is at the back of the block and is behind the carby/injection setup so it doesnt cop the direct water spray off of the fan, even a smear of Petroleum jelly ( vasoline) will keep the chev dizzy water tight.

other issues are with costs IE: replacement parts, rebuild costs, and "hotup" parts being dearer than for a Chev motor, there were a few issues with parts availibility too

Kingy

Marks Adapters site has listings of power (in kw) and torque figures for a heep of different motors. Could be of assistance but I am not sure where these figures would come from. Any small changes in motor would change these figures too probably.

check out the big block!!! peak torque is at 1600 revs OH yeah I want one!

V8Patrol wrote:

chimpboy wrote:Anyway nobody's said anything yet that makes it sound like a windsor would be a really bad choice. I wish people who say "chevs are better" would say why!

Jason

I did .........

In the PM I wrote:Biggest problem is the dizzy .... well not so much the dizzy but its location, because its up the front on a ford it is very prone to water getting in. It absolutely flies off of the fan and is virtually "pumped" into the dizzy.

With the chev motor the dizzy is at the back of the block and is behind the carby/injection setup so it doesnt cop the direct water spray off of the fan, even a smear of Petroleum jelly ( vasoline) will keep the chev dizzy water tight.

other issues are with costs IE: replacement parts, rebuild costs, and "hotup" parts being dearer than for a Chev motor, there were a few issues with parts availibility too

Yes, you did, nobody else does though

Jason

fatassgq wrote:Marks Adapters site has listings of power (in kw) and torque figures for a heep of different motors. Could be of assistance but I am not sure where these figures would come from. Any small changes in motor would change these figures too probably.

check out the big block!!! peak torque is at 1600 revs OH yeah I want one!

Their listings seem to be a bit out of date, I am pretty sure they are nearly all carburetted versions.

Dellow adaptors may have something .....

http://www.dellowauto.com.au/main.html

or try Rod .....

http://www.rodshop.com.au/

Hey Jason

I totally agree with what V8Patrol said in his PM to you! certainly nothing wrong with them. just the parts especially "hot up" are more expensive then they are for Chevs! But if your willing to spend the $$$$$........

Then hey theres nothin better then the sound of a screamin windsor at full noise!

i cant see a chev being the same price as a windsor, out of an eb - el or something, and they have a plastic hat, to keep water under pressure out.
for the power requirement it sounds like you are after, it should be cheaper for the windsor.

i still dont see the price difference on the parts required for a minor rebuild and power up? cams, springs rings etc are all similar prices.

Okay, thanks for all the thoughts everyone.

Just to clarify, I am not hell bent on having a windsor, I just thought it would be useful to get some info on that option as well as the more common chev/holden option and the VH45 option.

So now I have a bit more to think about.

Still waiting on a return email from Dellow, too. I'll post it when I get it.

Jason

Very interested to hear the outcome of this as there is a 4 bolt clevo block sitting in the shed waiting for me to decide wether it will be powering a 2wd or a 4wd.

Patroler wrote:The 302w is also lighter and narrower than the 302c, the windsor was what was found in aussie fords from the EB falcon to AU - all injected.
Clevelands ran from early days 1970ish to mid 80s XE - all carbys.

Early Falcon V8's came first with the windsor (eg XR GT 289, then went cleveland with I think the XW or XY until the XE).

All the EB on are all EFI Windsor, as there's no way an early tuned up carby Clevo 351 would pass 90's emission requirements.

Yea i didn't mention them as they are not injected or emission compliant for the gq, xw was windsor and xy was clevo

marks4wd.com has all the info on what you will need