Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Outers,

I am in the process of building a gq patrol and was wondering what people think are the needs to be able to do tuff truck????

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Regards
Mitch

Seat time

Yeh the plan is plenty of seat time.

I want to have testing before the Mudgee comp in August

Regards
Mitch

What kind of budget? What other comps you looking at?

Ok so far I have a lot of parts I just need to hook in and build it.

So far I have a dual cab gq patrol with this list of parts waiting to go on the truck

Gu front diff braced
New cvs , bearings and seals
X-link ( just need the pivot to weld to diff )
Front tjm pro locker
Warn high mount just need to rebuild and put rope on it
Winch cradle to build tube bar of for exo
EFI rb30 engine to either turbo at some point or put a Rb25 head on it
38 inch bias ply creepies on bead locked rims for now until I can get another set of 40s
Gu rear diff with locked lsd
Roll cage just need to chop cab to have less panels and put it in
2x4 point harness seat belts and racing seats
Efs big bore shocks all round with 4" coils to keep it low and hopefully stable
87% reduction installed already but I have the last marks twin stick adapters so that needs to be built
Full belly pan after transfer build
Endless air supply

Things I wanted to know is there any thing else that you can't do tuff truck without
Example
Rear Disconnect
Line lockers
Hydro assist or full
Queer steer
Heaps of seat time lol
And so on

I will be building this thing on a small budget. I already have most of the stuff just concerned I won't get far without rear steer etc. As the courses are getting very tight.

I will also be looking for sponsors to help get my rig into tuff truck, toperi , mudgee comp in August.


Regards
Mitch

Get rid of the Rb30. Gearboxs are very weak. They are different to TB/TD boxes.
If its comp only no road put in a Commodore V6 with a t700 and the patrol transfer or if you can stretch the budget a c4 and then go an atlas transfer. Probably alot cheaper than trying to turbo etc and u dont need that much horsepower

EFS shocks are going to be pointless with an x link. WAY to short.
If you still want to go to willowglen then Hydro assist as full hydro isnt allowed there.
If going full hydro why not go trianglulated 4 link front.

Even in the rear the efs will be too short. I have a GU with a long arm kit using EFS extremes and they are way too short. Can use 16 inch shocks from memory with that setup.

Very interesting point Turbo GU, I am keen to ditch the rb30 engine just as soon as it fails. The turbo idea was just an option.

As for commodore v6 and auto what is the advantage over say a v8 or similar?

As for the c4 and atlas that would be an awesome option as the atlas can have disconnects easier than patrol.

As for hydro I was just curious to whether it is really needed I am leaning towards. assist.

Willowglen would be good to drive but I currently navi for my work. I think once I start doing some hard comps it'll just turn full blown trailer queen.

The EFS shocks are in there for now but what brand shock would be suited to x link and possibly triangulated rear end??

Regards
Mitch

A V6 would be the easy option over a V8 as they are cheap to replace and have plenty of power.
The C4 and atlas is short and saves on any adaptors plus has all the good bits. Its cheaper in the long run.
I would go Triangulated front and rear suspension with around 14 coilovers and full hydro. Full hydro just gets rid of any issues with steering gear and when your trying to turn 40 inch tyres you will need all the help you can get

Look if your going to spend that much time building it I would just aim todo it once

Are you sure the gearboxes are that weak its known as being strong in most other cars. Its the same style of gearbox that the rb26 uses in the gtr. Im not sure how they go in a patrol as I dont have the experience with a patrol but they are very strong in all other things

You can use a nissan v6 if you want to stay nissan. you can upgrade there autos as well if you want them to handle big power

wax wrote:Are you sure the gearboxes are that weak its known as being strong in most other cars. Its the same style of gearbox that the rb26 uses in the gtr. Im not sure how they go in a patrol as I dont have the experience with a patrol but they are very strong in all other things

The box that comes behind the RB30 in the patrol is very weak! Compare it to the boxes behind a TB42/45/48 or a TD42 and its half the size.
I am pretty sure its not the GTR box I think its the same Jatco that came bebind the non turbo vl
Besides manual is not the choice for tuff truck

Damn you guys. Now I've just spent the last couple of hours pricing up an atlas and a built C4...... :s

The gearbox behind the rb30 patrol seems to be the FS5R30A which is the same gear set as the gtr and skyline and the latter model navaras.
The other nissan gearbox is the RB71C which came out behind the rb20det and rb30 skyline. With a different bellhousing its the same gearbox that comes behind the sr20 and the ca18 as well as the td27.
I just looked on ebay for a patrol gearbox for an rb30 and it looks like the FS5R30A which is a very strong gearbox on most applications , however I havent had a patrol so cant comment. If you say they break then your most likely right.
I know the terrano has the smaller gearbox and its made from noodles and breaks easily.

I also saw the td42 gearbox. Yup its a big sucker isnt it.
Of course all a moot point because you want an auto

If you use an rb30 then use a 25de head and not the 25det head. the de has smaller ports and will make more low down torque

If your going to build it to have a serious go at tuff truck then you wont be doing willowglen as you will be too modified!
As previously said linking it and full hydro is the way , either 4 link, 3link+panhard or A-frame is the way, with coil overs (budget friendly ones available) if you want to be smart I would be looking at building it to suit the new style of racing evolving here which is speed and crawling, so you will want to build something that can pick up some speed aswell as crawl. The commo v6 is a very cheap option with redily available parts. The c4 and atlas option is yes short and strong and will cost around $7k with converter as I have that setup behind a Lexus v8.
Another option if that is too steep would be commo v6, t700 to an lt230, dragtec do adapters at a good price and reduction gears are available out of uk.

I personally think a patrol is getting too big these days with the angles expected to drive, but if your keen I'd be chopping asmuch out of the bottom of the cab as everywhere else to drop it lower!
As I said b4 the kor comp in November is the start of hopefully Australias ultra4 so I would be definatley be doing homework on that b4 a new build. Oh and a commo v6 can be stroked and supercharged relatively cheap!

Cherrs

wax wrote:The gearbox behind the rb30 patrol seems to be the FS5R30A which is the same gear set as the gtr and skyline and the latter model navaras.
The other nissan gearbox is the RB71C which came out behind the rb20det and rb30 skyline. With a different bellhousing its the same gearbox that comes behind the sr20 and the ca18 as well as the td27.
I just looked on ebay for a patrol gearbox for an rb30 and it looks like the FS5R30A which is a very strong gearbox on most applications , however I havent had a patrol so cant comment. If you say they break then your most likely right.
I know the terrano has the smaller gearbox and its made from noodles and breaks easily.

I also saw the td42 gearbox. Yup its a big sucker isnt it.
Of course all a moot point because you want an auto

With that box in a patrol you have to remember you are pushing 2 plus ton of 4x4 plus combined with alot of load when in low range with all that reduction. They arent really designed for this application.

Mitch, superior have the armada extremes, they pretty good shocks on a budget. Id say do what you can at your own budget and try your luck. Big money trucks are boring, anyone can blow 30-40k on a truck and do reasonably well. I love seeing a truck that could just as easily drive down to Coles to get some milk, having a dig
At tuff truck. Do what u can and put ya nomination in. Doubt u get in this year but 2013 isn't that far away.

Yeh I've been looking at the Amanda extreme and also pro fender coil overs I guess it comes down to price in the end.

My first year at tuff truck will be 2013 as there is only 8 or so weeks till TTC this year. The reason for next years TTC is the car we sponsor is getting a full rebuild and won't be competing next year.

I am only doing TTC to have fun a full bodied rig ain't going to be able to compete with the big dollar trucks. Basically want to get there drive all the tracks and have fun doing it.

I am thinking hydro assist will be sorted and on the truck by then. As for the X-Link probably not I may just 5 link it and keep the standard spring and shocks for know.

Or at least till it gets an engine conversion.

Regards
Mitch

sounds like and interesting build! It should be a good toy, but as for even being half competitive it not really what i would build....

I say bring back the smaller trucks, it's tuff truck not tuff monster truck or tuff bank balance. I love watching the little battler giving it everything at tuff truck, like that near full bodied red Gq last year, what a champion. And some
Of the duel cab lux's that show up every year are still pretty close to rego worthy and they are great to watch. Go the under dog.

morewheeldrive wrote:I say bring back the smaller trucks, it's tuff truck not tuff monster truck or tuff bank balance. I love watching the little battler giving it everything at tuff truck, like that near full bodied red Gq last year, what a champion. And some
Of the duel cab lux's that show up every year are still pretty close to rego worthy and they are great to watch. Go the under dog.

x2.
Not taking anything away from the purpose built trucks as the time, effort, knowledge, skill is amazing and great to watch. Personally " I " enjoy watching the big rigs/more standard-ish trucks just havn a good go at it. May even get back there this year to watch again hopefully.

purplebus wrote:

morewheeldrive wrote:I say bring back the smaller trucks, it's tuff truck not tuff monster truck or tuff bank balance. I love watching the little battler giving it everything at tuff truck, like that near full bodied red Gq last year, what a champion. And some
Of the duel cab lux's that show up every year are still pretty close to rego worthy and they are great to watch. Go the under dog.

x2.
Not taking anything away from the purpose built trucks as the time, effort, knowledge, skill is amazing and great to watch. Personally " I " enjoy watching the big rigs/more standard-ish trucks just havn a good go at it. May even get back there this year to watch again hopefully.

I think that defeats the purpose of Tuff truck i go to see the best rigs in Australia compete, not weekend warriors, i can see them at any 4x4 park on a weekend. As stated patrols are a big rig to start with so hack as much body work as rules alow for and lighten it up as best you can.

johnsy86 wrote:

purplebus wrote:

morewheeldrive wrote:I say bring back the smaller trucks, it's tuff truck not tuff monster truck or tuff bank balance. I love watching the little battler giving it everything at tuff truck, like that near full bodied red Gq last year, what a champion. And some
Of the duel cab lux's that show up every year are still pretty close to rego worthy and they are great to watch. Go the under dog.

x2.
Not taking anything away from the purpose built trucks as the time, effort, knowledge, skill is amazing and great to watch. Personally " I " enjoy watching the big rigs/more standard-ish trucks just havn a good go at it. May even get back there this year to watch again hopefully.

I think that defeats the purpose of Tuff truck i go to see the best rigs in Australia compete, not weekend warriors, i can see them at any 4x4 park on a weekend. As stated patrols are a big rig to start with so hack as much body work as rules alow for and lighten it up as best you can.

exactly right, that is why this is the best 4x4 event in australia. There is something there for everyone as everyone is there to see something different. Where else can you watch an off tap sierra compete against a near full bodied patrol/cruiser and something like the unimog all in the one place on the same track in 2 days.? AWESOME.
We dont want a V8 supertaxi style event, we want variety amonst the competitors and their trucks.

I personally like to watch the bigger rigs that are something I could afford to build. Definately dont get me wrong though. If I could afford to build or had the skills I would build something along the lines of the front runners and what a buzz that would be driving it. Unfortunely I have no fab skills or $$$. Do have a weekend warrior truck though.....

You wouldn't be very suprised how cheap you can build a competitive rig these days with the products available from USA!
you could build an 'off tap' Sierra cheaper than most wkend warriors!
Evan

evanstaniland wrote:You wouldn't be very suprised how cheap you can build a competitive rig these days with the products available from USA!
you could build an 'off tap' Sierra cheaper than most wkend warriors!
Evan

What you will find is almost regardless of brand of vehicle, the same basic components are required to build a competitive Tuff Truck. So the cost (if done properly) will be almost the same..... There is almost a basic recipe for top 20, and its easy to achieve, every year its funny to see the bottom half of the field as they have generally spent the same if not more than most of the top half, BUT they have wasted it on crap!!!! (thats where my previous comment relates)
either way good luck champ!