Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Guys,


After a few months it looks like its time to get a Castor adjustment done. T

The miss'us just flat our refuses to drive the Mav anymore because it steers "Funny". I have to admit it does tend to "Follow" the marks in the road a bit, and is a bit twitchy at 100kph ,but ive just been putting up with it.

Its had a wheel alignment and that came up fine, so im hoping that the above is a sign of a need for castor correction.

Now ive done a little research and theres quite a few ways to have the correction done.


1. Castor bushes - This seems to be the easiest solution, but have been told that castor bushes can 'bind' up when the front articulates ??? ($400)

2. Castor Plates - I dont think these are legal in QLD ?? ($400??)

3. Have the mounts rewelded / redrilled, Ive heard that this is probley the best option as you retain the standard bushes, and it looks standard afterwards. ($500??)

Just wondering what other people have done and their experiences with different options.

Thanks again.

I used 3 degree bushes for 8 years with NO dramas. OME.
Had 2 sets in that time. removed last set last week and still in good nick.

I am now trying out drop brackets at rear of radius arms.

These make arm straighter, steer well but do reduce ground clearance behind wheel and require a bit of work to fit.

1st choice?? Caster bushes.

Bazzle

I personally haven't used bushes before so i can't compare I have caster

correction plates they are fine on my 4inch lift and if you have a 4inch lift

and worried about the plates being legal your lift isn't exactly legal either

technically your not allowed more than one third of your bump stop

rebond which works out to roughly 2 inches but there are ways around

things

Drop mounts if you buy from the right place and don't get touched are about $200-$220 and while you are getting them made up you can get the mount shifted 20mm forwards which stops the 35's touching the rear of the front guards. The wheel aligment is perfect and the mod is blue plate able @ $105 dollars. About 1 hour to fit with lots of beer and the round to a mates place with a welder. Caster plates suck. The wondering is from the jew factor in you not changing the steering dampner when you did the lift. And don't try and man up and buy one of those return to centre ones for the limp wristed mrs - cause they damage you pwr str box.

Bartso wrote:I personally haven't used bushes before so i can't compare I have caster

correction plates they are fine on my 4inch lift and if you have a 4inch lift

and worried about the plates being legal your lift isn't exactly legal either

technically your not allowed more than one third of your bump stop

rebond which works out to roughly 2 inches but there are ways around

things

In Queensland the better you hide it the more legal it is and I thought you bought your car like that?????

Those blue plates are in QLD.

I did have a new steering dampener fitted with the lift

Sorry to sound silly but whats the differnce between drop mounts and castor plates ??

Castor plates drop the front of the arm down and are fitted at the diff housing end of the radius arms. They roll the diff back restoring factory castor.

Drop brackets are fitted at the chasis end of the radius arms and lower the rear of the arm, this rolls the diff back also restoring castor.

If I had my time again....I would have used neither or bushes...

I initially had 3 degree castor bushes for a 4" lift in a SWB GQ. They didn't restore factory castor and the car drove terribly. I then bought new nissan bushes (ooohhh like $50 each) and fitted 5.5 degree castor plates, interestingly I still don't quite have factory castor of +2.5 degrees. Bearing in mind my vehicle is a shorty and everything you do to them is twice (Not a definite rule but comes close to the truth) as fiddly as a lwb.

I would probably save a bit of extra dosh and buy those 3rds productions swiveling radius arms with the correct castor already installed. As much flex as a 5 link and drives well on road. I can't justify this now having spent way too much on the front end already... sooo ... IMHO I would wait till you had enough dosh and purchase some of those arms....

Arent they like $1500 ? Hrrmm...Would be nice. But until then Ill have to get something a little cheaper to get it driving right

Thanks

After much thought and research I am going to save the extra money and buy the snake racing drop radius arms. They seem very pricey but will no doubt work out cheaper than mucking around with cheaper solution then going this way in the end. I to have a SWB. Just the parts alone and doing all the work myself doing a good 4-5" lift on a SWB that works on and offroad is expensive. 5" Lift Springs, modify front shock mounts to run dual shocks up front, 6 quality shocks with correct stroke for suspension articulation, chromemoly lengthened upper and lower rear trailing arms with Johnny joints in diff end and rubber nissan bushes in chassis end, extended front and rear Panhard rods with johnny joints at diff end, dual carden rear drive shaft and extended brake lines. I am sure their is something I have missed, I know you can do it way cheaper but this is the setup I am thinking of using. Has anybody had experience cutting and rotating the diff to correct caster as this would prevent the need for the aftermarket radius arms?

Dirty Dave wrote:

Bartso wrote:I personally haven't used bushes before so i can't compare I have caster

correction plates they are fine on my 4inch lift and if you have a 4inch lift

and worried about the plates being legal your lift isn't exactly legal either

technically your not allowed more than one third of your bump stop

rebond which works out to roughly 2 inches but there are ways around

things

In Queensland the better you hide it the more legal it is and I thought you bought your car like that?????

Those blue plates are in QLD.

A mate of mine has already tried that the department said it doesn't matter if you bought it like that or not he had to change the suspension

For info, lifting the front of a SWB is no different from lifting the front of a LWB. They are the same, the only time it starts to make a differance is when the gearbox angle is changed (ie packers or lifting the motor up).

Would be interesting to hear first hand info on the 3rd productions radius arms.

Honestly if you were going to spend 1400 + on some new castor fixed radius arms, I would go for the 3rds productions Billet Control arms.

These arms are designed similarly to the snake racing arms, that is they correct issues of castor, handling..., except for the chassis end which has a rotating joint.... Basically as much flex as a 5 link but actually drives well on road...

give them a call on

(02) 8814 9037

Apparently these arms are that popular he's having trouble keepin up with the demand. He has people changing from 5 links to these arms and they are REALLY happy...

$1495 a pair...

How do these arms flex better than a 5 link as you can only flex as much as your shocks will let you The standard arms including the aftermarket ones when traveling in a downward motion will travel in an arch rotating spring pads, shock mounts ect away from the car. 4 parallel links will always remin parallel throu out its entire flex range always keeping the springs, shock mounts ect horizontal.

I agree with cheezy although the aftermarket arms from thirds may have more articulation than standard a 5 link is the only way to get maximum articulation on the standard arms or thirds arms if the left hand side is going up and the right hand side is coming down the left hand side going up is rotating the diff backwards and the right hand side is going down is rotating forward with both sides going against each other it limits the amount of travel allowed and a 5 link prevents this correct me if im wrong this is the way i see it though

I don't know... This is what he claims....

I think the big go is that he was like "It drives well onroad"..... sooo... yeah...

I ama bolt on whore sooo I can't really suggest ne shite other than the bloke selling rates themm... sooo....

yeah..

Drop brackets are a good option as they keep bushes at rear of radius arms centally loaded. With a spring lift on standard arms bushes get compressed down and limit further droop. Drop bkts restore angle to zero.

This gives better artic than caster plates.
Harder to set up than bushes though which are simple and easy to fit.

Bazzle

Drop mounts - How do you mean hard....all your doing is unbolting the crossmember mounts and sliding the drop mounts in, then welding the plates to the chassis. Easy for me and I am a bolt on bandit. I have proof!!!!

And there are no other mods to be done.

See pix - 6 inch lift which always sags to five when using 17mm wire, nice ride though.

Dirty D

Not really hard but Mine required the curved section to be cut out of the chassis so the top section could be slid back against the old mount.
Then the large Washers needed grinding back as they bound up under extreme articulation.


Bazzle

Hows that thing go with a 6 inch lift....


What you do bout Vibs... A DC shaft... if so did you use a standard spicer type arrangement..... It's just Ima considering goink a bit higher than 4 inches and at the moment I got a DC shaft. But I am worried that at 6 inches it will be at its max operating limit ? anyone have and ideas.. It is a standard spicer DC joint..

I tend to stay away from xmember spaces....

Those drop mounts look like they would cop a bashing with rocks etc. Have anyone experienced those troubles ?

Yep!!!!

I have em on my truck and to be honest I think they are a stupid idea for offroad. But like everything they are a compromise. They seem to do the job onroad(and off I spose) for correcting steering geometry a bit. There are a lot of trucks using them.

But off road in the rocks they catch a fair bit. It is only a loud bang though so who cares. They are tuff and can cop a fair bit.

I went out with em and with three tonne of vehicle rockcrawling haha ha ha Landed hard a couple of times. Absolutely fucked my tie rod but these things are stll fine. Just some serious rock rash.

In my oppinion if I had the $$$ I would get the custom radius arms.
I think the drop brackets come in two different sizes too. One for above 5 or 6 inch and one for below. It is possible to go too far the other way.

For the record I don't like castor bushes either but are prolly the simplest way. Castor brakets on front of diff have been known to be totally off (ie not what they are meant to be as far as degrees goes) aswell so buy from someone you know etc.

Drop brakets prolly best but just put up with less ground clearance and it is quite a bit lower

So what about just welding and redrilling the brackets on the front diff ? Has anyone done this ? This sounds like a pretty good idea to me because you get to keep the std bushes and have correct castor.

Bolt in drop brackets from wizard.Dont get the weld in ones.

Mine are the Wizard 100mm drop bolt in ones
Smaller of the two.

Meant for 4 - 5' lift. (lower ones).
With 5" front springs Ive got 3.4 degrees caster.

Bazzle

Do you have pictures of the wizard kit fitted????


Taz

I heard that the custom radius arms with the extra swivel at the chasis end were no good on road as they add another point of vibration. Don't no if it is true or not.

go the drop brackets. with your small lift the suspension will still max out due to the shock / coil setup (especially the pin to pin front shocks). hence don't bother with 3rds arms or five link. the drop brackets will restore the piviot closer to the centre allowing further droop. the shimmy also has a bit to do with keeping the arms close to parallel to the ground. hence the reason my wizard 5 link sits as low as drop down brackets. castor bushes are a bad idea. urathane kills flex, increases stress on your mounts etc, increases vibration cost a shite load for what they are (quick castings in a cheap to make mould). go the dropdowns period.

also i cannot see why castor plates would be illegal in qld. i got my 5 link plated with no dramas, which has castor style plates at the front.
just depends on you plate man.

cheers bru