Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok.. so i saw a turbo kit from a 3b that was advertised on here and jumped on it.. i was probably a bit lazy and got a cheap setup that had been on a rig without the proper research on the turbo,etc. i say that because after fitting it i'm not getting the performance i was expecting..

its basically an IHI (A/R ratio's unknown) Turbo, thats on a standard exhaust manifold, oil cooler and custom dump pipe on a 2.5" straight through exhaust.. some of the issues I have is that it only does about 5-6psi boost max and comes on boots around the 3000rpm.. anyone with a 3b know's that you don't see that RPM very often and this turbo isn't really doing much to help performance. EGT's are usually pretty high for pre-turbo pyro as well...

aim is a reliable setup that offers good low rpm pickup and is no slouch on the hwy.. I dont mind running an intercooler if its going to help keep EGT's down..

now i'm in a position financially where i can get it sorted once and for all, a big road trip coming up is further incentive to sort the turbo out so it actually comes on boost in a usable rev range.

so I have some questions... if you had some coin but were a bit of a tight ass like myself how would you go about sorting out a well performing turbo setup?

1) DIY - ih8mud has a wealth of knowledge on the subject and all the info I could possibly want.. do I want to try and piece together a better working setup?
2) drive in/drive out - do I just bite the bullet and put the 40 in to a shop and have them sort it out and provide a setup that works and is tested... this will probably be the most expensive option..

Do any of you reading this have or have created an affordable turbo setup for your 3b's. If so what turbo (A/R) and manifold setup did you use? can you post pics and give more info on it..

anyone planning this mod care to share any info they have collected so far...

cheers,

Andrew

I'll have a full running, bolt in, 13bt motor available soon....Might blow the budget but? Depending on what your could sell your current motor and turbo for?

Motor has 60k on it and turbo only around 2000kms.

As you said there is heaps of info on ih8mud and some very good setups, many a 3B running around the 20psi mark too which gets them moving nice. I dont have a 3B, but can offer a reasonable comparison to a 13BT. IMO I would buy a 13BT manifold and CT26 for it. I have one of these CT26's on my 13BT running 25psi max.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=220316

It builds boost FAST, EGT's are good and it HAULS estimated around 550NM torque, around 100-120kw at the wheels. 20psi boost by about 2000rpm and I can hold 25psi to the governor happily. If your near melbourne I can take you for a spin, I run 35's on 4.11 diffs and on road I can drive up and down most grades in 5th gear, overtake uphill easily etc etc.

hulsty wrote:It builds boost FAST, EGT's are good and it HAULS estimated around 550NM torque, around 100-120kw at the wheels. 20psi boost by about 2000rpm and I can hold 25psi to the governor happily. If your near melbourne I can take you for a spin, I run 35's on 4.11 diffs and on road I can drive up and down most grades in 5th gear, overtake uphill easily etc etc.

I wish I could talk myself into running the 13bt in the new 40 I'm getting would save some hassles and have it on the road quicker. Sounds like yours would almost be fun enough. Just don't think I could own a desiel.

just try it Dave, quicker and might be cheaper.. do you have to run the v8 straight away??

Anyway.. pricing kits they seem to be over 2k easy...

MTQ don't do a kit for the 3b
Turbo glide want $2800 for a kit or $520 for an exhaust manifold..
Mike Vine has a kit too for about 4k... and could source a manifold..



Looking on mud and Diesel42 has put together a kit from a 13bt exhaust manifold and a Garrett 2052 turbo ... might be something worth looking into..

$$$ wise I dont know how much a 13BT manifold can be had for, but a CT26 is about $1100 from above, Diesel42's kits use a GT2052 I think, not sure how much they are worth but I think they are good up to about 15psi on a B series, not sure what spool up etc is like.

I would go the turbo as Hulsty desbscribed and get a manifold made or buy one, did Ray make the one for his 40? It's not hard to get huge gains (in more than one area) out of a manifold.

So the Turbo and manifold is another $1600 ish then I would get Mike Vine to tune it for you and it will go as good as any 3b+t will go.

I wouldn't buy a kit without driving a 40 with that kit fitted. Some give 24% gains some give 50%.

I'v got a mate at MTQ I can ask if they do a turbo to suit? Let me know.

x2 on Sticking with the 13bt on the new build Twisty most 40 owners would give their left nut for that motor but I suppose that just means $$$ too.

Denco also have a kit for about $2900... didn't I see a bj40 with a shwitzer turbo in the member section? wonder if thats on the road yet..

ideally I'd like to get change from $2000 if I can manage it.. I mean I have a turbo on there at the moment.. I understand a different manifold will mean piping changes, dump pump and turbo adapter changes so thats no biggie...

Drive in/Drive out looks like it will be at least a $5k exercise.. hard to justify when you paid $2800 for the vehicle..

Hey Dan, yeh that might be what I need to do, get something that works and slap it on... it is most likely to be the most cost effective way, then get it tuned. Anyway.. will keep looking around...

You can always sell your current set-up on fleabay...

Mine was $5655 drive in drive out with mike vine including 6 brand new injectors, full exhuast system and mod plate. That was 7 or so years ago. I had the cash at the time, bought a house and been broke ever since.

TWISTY wrote:

hulsty wrote:It builds boost FAST, EGT's are good and it HAULS estimated around 550NM torque, around 100-120kw at the wheels. 20psi boost by about 2000rpm and I can hold 25psi to the governor happily. If your near melbourne I can take you for a spin, I run 35's on 4.11 diffs and on road I can drive up and down most grades in 5th gear, overtake uphill easily etc etc.

I wish I could talk myself into running the 13bt in the new 40 I'm getting would save some hassles and have it on the road quicker. Sounds like yours would almost be fun enough. Just don't think I could own a desiel.

ahha give the little fella a chance!! I know it would be a tough decision, v8 auto will be bloody good and sound awesome to boot, 13BT/3B sound crap unless your really up them with lots of boost etc. Atleast selling the 13BT should give you a pretty penny to put towards other things.

SCANAS wrote:You can always sell your current set-up on fleabay...

I'd imagine you would be able to sell your current setup on ebay for a solid few hundred, that would get you a 13BT manifold, then bolt on a CT26 or GT series turbo, new dump pipe and off you go. IMO I dont think you will need intercooling, I ran 18psi no cooler and it was fine re pre turbo EGTs. IMO I would use a graeme improved CT26, but if you want to use a GT series turbo I have a CT26 to T25 adapter for sale, CNC profiled etc etc with studs.

You can buy the Denco manifold by itself for around $420. Ring Pete at Redlands and get him to order 2 (I need one). They have a T2 flange. Either keep using your turbo (if suitable) or chase up a more suitable option. A smaller Garrett from a Hilux diesel kit would be great, would spool up quick, offer enough boost and be reliable. Piping etc is simple, use what you have, add what you need. Even if you bought a brand new turbo, you could do this for $2k.

I am doing this to mine, give me a call, might be able to get some discounts if we order 2 of eveything we need.

TWISTY wrote:

hulsty wrote:It builds boost FAST, EGT's are good and it HAULS estimated around 550NM torque, around 100-120kw at the wheels. 20psi boost by about 2000rpm and I can hold 25psi to the governor happily. If your near melbourne I can take you for a spin, I run 35's on 4.11 diffs and on road I can drive up and down most grades in 5th gear, overtake uphill easily etc etc.

I wish I could talk myself into running the 13bt in the new 40 I'm getting would save some hassles and have it on the road quicker. Sounds like yours would almost be fun enough. Just don't think I could own a desiel.

Unless you're going to race it, the 13BT would be my preferred choice over a 304 EFI motor. Personally I love the simplicity of these motors. Spend a weekend in the pits of a winch comp and notice the time spent in the engine bays of petrol trucks compared to the diesel trucks...

But you have got to go with what you will enjoy most.

so with the help of Ray and Rick I think i'm getting closer to a cost effective upgrade...

1) Denco exhaust manifold with a T25 Flange - ~$450
2) Garrett 2052 (p/n: 727264-5001) Turbo - $950-1200

This setup should closely match what ih8mud's Diesel42's kit contains..

Have you driven one or know someone with that set-up?

SCANAS wrote:Have you driven one or know someone with that set-up?

Not in AU... the A/R ratio's are pretty close to what is recommended for the 3b though and there are a heap of reports on ih8mud re: this particular turbo anyway.. I'll be a guinea pig for Ricko's turbo set up

shorty_f0rty wrote:

SCANAS wrote:Have you driven one or know someone with that set-up?

Not in AU... the A/R ratio's are pretty close to what is recommended for the 3b though and there are a heap of reports on ih8mud re: this particular turbo anyway.. I'll be a guinea pig for Ricko's turbo set up

Excellent

shorty_f0rty wrote:just try it Dave, quicker and might be cheaper.. do you have to run the v8 straight away??

Well I would need to sell one or the other to help fund the purchase price, otherwise I probably would give the 13bt a run for a bit.

And yeah Scanas, hoping the 13bt will fetch good $, specially as a full bolt in setup for a BJ owner, or weld the factory mounts on setup for FJ owners.

Ricko wrote:Unless you're going to race it, the 13BT would be my preferred choice over a 304 EFI motor. Personally I love the simplicity of these motors. Spend a weekend in the pits of a winch comp and notice the time spent in the engine bays of petrol trucks compared to the diesel trucks...But you have got to go with what you will enjoy most.

Well it does have go fast suspension in it, so am thinking a go fast motor will be the most suited for it. Wouldn't mind doing some competitions in it down the track possibly.

hulsty wrote:ahha give the little fella a chance!! I know it would be a tough decision, v8 auto will be bloody good and sound awesome to boot, 13BT/3B sound crap unless your really up them with lots of boost etc. Atleast selling the 13BT should give you a pretty penny to put towards other things.

Thats it. I think I'd need to mod it a bit to be really happy with it, which is more $ and potentially less reliability.



Good to see you've worked out a option that suits Andy!

TWISTY wrote:
Well it does have go fast suspension in it, so am thinking a go fast motor will be the most suited for it. Wouldn't mind doing some competitions in it down the track possibly.

True that!

shorty_f0rty wrote:so with the help of Ray and Rick I think i'm getting closer to a cost effective upgrade...

1) Denco exhaust manifold with a T25 Flange - ~$450
2) Garrett 2052 (p/n: 727264-5001) Turbo - $950-1200

This setup should closely match what ih8mud's Diesel42's kit contains..

That turbo was picked for the 3B by some kiwi guy. How much do you trust him?

I'd trust him like a bro, bro.

I am a kiwi too after all

shorty_f0rty wrote:so with the help of Ray and Rick I think i'm getting closer to a cost effective upgrade...

1) Denco exhaust manifold with a T25 Flange - ~$450
2) Garrett 2052 (p/n: 727264-5001) Turbo - $950-1200

This setup should closely match what ih8mud's Diesel42's kit contains..

The good thing about this combo is they both have a t25 flange so no adapter is required to mate turbo to manifold..

Manifold and turbo has been ordered, they should land mid next week..

Just remember you NEED 20psi of boost

hulsty wrote:Just remember you NEED 20psi of boost

Followed by the need for a new head, new precombustion cups and possibly new pistons.

I sized that GT2052 to get the broadest boost range on that engine with about 10psi max. IMO more on a 3B is asking for trouble. It's fine to run more if you are prepared to deal with that trouble. Both preventing it and dealing with it if it happens.

Greg in Canuckstan is running 20psi on a compound set on his 3B. But he considers heads and precombustion cups to be service items. It appears the 3B runs out of fuel around 20psi anyway.

yeh dont think i'll be needing 20psi.. but 10-15 will be nice.. hell anything is an improvement on whats there at the moment.. will look for a moderate tune and keep EGT's down and take it from there...

On thing mike vine said when I quizzed him about his turbo kit is that the cooling system needs to be in tip top shape when turbo'ing the 3b, otherwise you run in to a heap of other issues...

Do these things still need a relief value for between gear changes/butterfly throttle?

Yes the cooling is another reason I kept to 10psi for that turbo size. 50% more power = 50% more heat.

You won't need a relief valve. But you will need to secure all hoses that are subject to boost pressure. Pop the wrong one off and your engine thinks it's party time.

heres a vid of my current setup going up a hill under load..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozUX8HccfL0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure if anyone can get anything out of it, but interested in any feedback none-the-less..

Fair bit of jiggle, I can't read the numbers. Just tell us how it's going.

Did you see this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so6F-Wn5 ... r_embedded" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;