Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Okay, I've got some info on the nissan list and by PM but I figure the next bit I want to know about is of general interest.

So, the TB42 has developed a tiny oil leak, most likely the pressure sender. Therefore it is time to RIP IT OUT AND REPLACE IT WITH A V8.

So I want 200kW, petrol EFI, and good torque.

So far the most economical way I can see of getting this is a commodore V8, VN-VS (I guess) having probably ruled out windsors due to scarcity and VH45 nissans due to difficulty.

Problem is I know NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOLDENS. In fact, all I have ever done in the past is sneer at them.

So given that I want it to be:

- cheap
- 200kW
- torquey
- legally engineerable on petrol

... what sort of commo motor should I be keeping my eyes out for? And what should I be avoiding?

The reason I think this is "General 4x4 Tech" not just Nissan is that this is really a common swap into other 4x4s too, so I hope it's okay here.

Jason

ps I'd hate to look like a "gunner", so I'd better say it might be a few months before I actually do the deed, as I am waiting on some cash around Oct/Nov! Thought I might start looking for the motor now though.

edit: pps if there IS another motor I should definitely be thinking of please let me know...

You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

any vn to vs series 2 engine is roughly the same. late series 3 vs and vt had roller cam, and sequential injection. pick up a wrecked vn-vp for around $1500 - $2000. my mate sold his vn berlina with new reco mild engine, for $2000. another mate bought a vq statesman for $1200. buy a motor from the wreckers for about $1500 - $2000, then you still need the pump and other bits and pieces. you will be able to use the guts from the commodore tank in you patrol tank, with minor fab work. 200 kw is mild cam, minor porting,(part of any standard freshen up), quality air filter and exhaust.

by the way, i thought the ford v8 would have been cheaper.

Guts wrote:You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

I want to do a bit of driving in remote areas, so I just think straight gas isn't going to be practical. Fair call or am I being pessimistic?

Jason

Guts wrote:You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

chevs are dearer to buy, in the first place. and will make less power.in standard trim

the vn-vs 5 litre V8 puts out around the 185kw mark standard but can be chipped for more power. shouldnt be a prog gettin it approved in a gq.
i have seen motors going for around the $2500 mark with loom and ecu.
u will also need exchange memcal for ecu which is about $395 to get around the security feature.

chimpboy wrote:

Guts wrote:You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

I want to do a bit of driving in remote areas, so I just think straight gas isn't going to be practical. Fair call or am I being pessimistic?

Jason

Fair call, not all servo`s have gas. They all do in the cities but who knows in the outback

Are you going to rebuild it? They all piss oil out from the valley and sump so dont be too concerned about that. Just make sure that when you go looking to buy one that you pull the rocker covers off both heads to see how gunk/burnt oil is there. You can tell the bad ones it'll be full, so will the oil gallaries. Most wreakers will still have them running so you can see it go first hand..

killalux wrote:the vn-vs 5 litre V8 puts out around the 185kw mark standard ...

I don't think so! VR-VS vintage HSVs were 185kW - stock were significantly less than that. The 200-220kW motors were late VS/into VT era.

I don't doubt that any of this vintage motor can produce 200kW without too much trouble, but how "peaky" will it be - will it really be suitable for off-road work? (This isn't a rhetorical question - I really don't know...)

Scott

chimpboy wrote:

Guts wrote:You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

I want to do a bit of driving in remote areas, so I just think straight gas isn't going to be practical. Fair call or am I being pessimistic?

Jason

How remote? Some of the most remote aboriginal communities don't sell unleaded petrol - it's diesel or avgas

Scott

chimpboy wrote:

Guts wrote:You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

I want to do a bit of driving in remote areas, so I just think straight gas isn't going to be practical. Fair call or am I being pessimistic?

Jason

This is where I got into deep trouble ....... Mine was straight LPG and I had no dramas at all untill I went on my 4th monthly annual hunting trip into central NSW......
The local town (of which I was camping 60ks away from) had LPG at the local fuel distributor .....
Problem was he shut the gate at 5.00pm on Friday and didnt reopen till 8.00am on Monday !!, really handy when ya driving over 200ks a night !

I limped the Patrol into the next town ( 160ks away !!! ) just for fuel every day........ its now back to a duel fuel rig for that one reason, the local roads mob got angry at me and all I said to em was what I just wrote and that maybe I should sue em for "unfair discrimination"..... being that my rig couldnt be used in these remote areas because of the law....

never heard a thing back from em since !

Kingy

P/S
My "petrol" tank hold a massive 38 lits and I carry a jerrycan ( 20lits), its there just for outback work and emergencys only!

NJ SWB wrote:

killalux wrote:the vn-vs 5 litre V8 puts out around the 185kw mark standard ...

I don't think so! VR-VS vintage HSVs were 185kW - stock were significantly less than that. The 200-220kW motors were late VS/into VT era.

I don't doubt that any of this vintage motor can produce 200kW without too much trouble, but how "peaky" will it be - will it really be suitable for off-road work? (This isn't a rhetorical question - I really don't know...)

Scott

vn 5.0 standard 165kw
vn-vp sv5000 and gts 5.0 200kw
vn-vp-vr-vs clubsport etc 180-185kw
vn group a 5.0 215kw
vt 5.0 175kw
vt 5.0 hsv 195kw
vr-vs 5.7 215kw
vt 5.7 220kw

vt has roller cam and sequential injection
vn - vp 200kw has mild cam and head porting
vn-vs 180-185kw has exhaust and airfilter, and chip

CRUSHU wrote:vn 5.0 standard 165kw
vn-vp sv5000 and gts 5.0 200kw
vn-vp-vr-vs clubsport etc 180-185kw
vn group a 5.0 215kw
vt 5.0 175kw
vt 5.0 hsv 195kw
vr-vs 5.7 215kw
vt 5.7 220kw

vt has roller cam and sequential injection
vn - vp 200kw has mild cam and head porting
vn-vs 180-185kw has exhaust and airfilter, and chip

I take it that the 5.7s are pretty rare and expensive?

Also, based on what you've written, it sounds like the 165kW VN-VS motors would make 185kW with a chip and a custom exhaust anyway..? Or are they a different animal in other ways too?

Jason

Yep go the injected 5L

165kw standard
add a set of extractors and a good mandrel exhaust

a chip and a dyno tune ,u should see 190kw with plenty of torqe


Marks have the bellhousing engine mounts and wiring install kit

a bloke in maitland has one ina GQ

goes so much better with sweet note to boot

i had trouble keeping my injected 5l cool in my lux but u have plenty of room in the GQ

Are u keen 2 stik with the manual or go auto

Can anybody tell me what Holden model V8 I should be looking for manafactured after 1992 (VN VT) as I want to keep my mav running on Petrol, would like efi 5L. I am clueless to Holden vehicles

yeah the 5.7l stroker motors are onlt found in VR/VS/VT GTS and some senators and sum hsv statesmans and

i had one of these in my senator with a six speed manual and they do have alot more grunt then my 5l 5speed ute i had before

and yes they are a fair bit dearer and rare 2

any VN/VS 5l can be stroked to a 5.7l buy getting a harrop stoker crank new rod and pistons i think a new 355 crank is a $1000

also the 200kw motors out of Vn sv 5000 VP GTS and VN GRPa are all 4 bolt mains compared to 2 bolt

CANETOAD

All 5L from VN 2 VT are injected and all very similar

any of the above would be fine to use as a conversion

Vn-VP motors are getten cheap and are not that expensive to freshen up

Canetoad wrote:Can anybody tell me what Holden model V8 I should be looking for manafactured after 1992 (VN VT) as I want to keep my mav running on Petrol, would like efi 5L. I am clueless to Holden vehicles

Yeah this is the exact same question I am asking. I have the same model car as you, want to do the same conversion.

myv84b wrote:All 5L from VN 2 VT are injected and all very similar

any of the above would be fine to use as a conversion

Vn-VP motors are getten cheap and are not that expensive to freshen up

What would you say should be done to freshen them up before you put the motor in?

And - ballpark costs for the 5.0 and 5.7?

Jason

HSV 5lt new crate engine $4750.00
hsv 5.7 Lt (stroked 308) new crate $6750.00

http://www.cmr.uq.edu.au/~rotor/the_she ... is_rangie/



Michael.

VTs have a roller cam and their blocks dont need to be grounded to accept a 5.7 crank should you wish to stroke it in the future.

5 litre engines can be sourced for approximatley 3 - 5 grand wehre the 5.7s can be sourced from 4 to 7 grand.

Do your research and then LOOK hard for what you want. Dont settle for anything more than what you're willing to pay.

HSV Rangie wrote:HSV 5lt new crate engine $4750.00
hsv 5.7 Lt (stroked 308) new crate $6750.00

http://www.cmr.uq.edu.au/~rotor/the_she ... is_rangie/

From your site it sounds like these come with ECU but not with ancillaries like PS pump, alternator etc?

I was kinda thinking wreck/half-cut so as to get all the extra bits and pieces.

Jason

BTW thanks everyone for the info, I think this is going to be a useful thread for others besides me.

pirices vary greatly get the traden post or parts peddeler

VN - VS 5l $1500-$3000

5.7l $4500 +

depending on the motor aand if its farked but usualy piston rings bearings cam lifters etc + get the heads done

id try and buy a good runner and wack it in drive it to it crys enuff then look at rebuiling it

i flogged my 5l 5speed ute everyday 4 2 years did 150000kms in it on top of the hundred it had and i spoke 2 the bloke that bought it and he has since done 50k in it and it still runs sweet

I did how ever always warm it up before revin the date of it and decent oil every 5oookms

yes make sure u get P/S AC alternator starter exhaust cats charcoal canister complete wiring harness fuel pump ecu etc
otherwise buying these extras can add up a lot

Thanks guys I will keep my eye's out for a 5L VT with loom and ecu. Now I am of to the Marks Adapters site to price up everything else I need.

Canetoad wrote:Thanks guys I will keep my eye's out for a 5L VT with loom and ecu. Now I am of to the Marks Adapters site to price up everything else I need.

It might not hurt to try Dellows (www.dellowauto.com.au) and the Castlemaine Rod Shop (not sure of URL) as well. They are all good as far as I know although I have only dealt with Dellows myself.

Keep us posted on how you go okay? What's your timing gonna be?

Jason

chimpboy wrote:

Canetoad wrote:Thanks guys I will keep my eye's out for a 5L VT with loom and ecu. Now I am of to the Marks Adapters site to price up everything else I need.

It might not hurt to try Dellows (www.dellowauto.com.au) and the Castlemaine Rod Shop (not sure of URL) as well. They are all good as far as I know although I have only dealt with Dellows myself.

Keep us posted on how you go okay? What's your timing gonna be?

Jason

http://www.rodshop.com.au/

http://www.dellowauto.com.au/main.html

I should start within the next couple of months, after doing a couple of buildups in the past I have learn't it is best if possible to aquire all the parts first as much as possible before starting.

I spoke to Marks and all the bit and pieces to do the 5lt VT EFI conversion into a GQ Patrol are listed below. This is retaining the Nissan clutch and flywheel.

MFK605HT -Engine Conversion Kit Holden V8 using Nissan clutch and flywheel Includes: Adapter flywheel housing, input shaft extension, thrust bearing extension carrier, flywheel cover plate, sprigot bearing and adapter, oil pressure sender adapter, water pressure sender adapter.$925

MFK625H/CK-Engine Mount Kit Holden V8 Includes Left and right side chassis brackets, engine mount rubbers, all nuts bolts and washers $265

MFK690VS/T-Interface Wiring Loom Holden V8 EFI$385

MEMSVTM - Mem Cal exchange $330

MFK6823 Fuel and Bracket Kit to suit all Holden EFI Engines. Includes Relay mounting Bracket, purge tank bracket, fuel filter bracket, map sensor bracket, high pressure fuel pump, high pressure fuel filter, fuel pump bracket and damper bracket, fuel pump clamp with all fixings screws, nuts, bolts and washers $455

MKF696-Speed Sensor Interface Kit Includes: Sender unit pre programmed interface unit.$330

All up $2690

So the conversion will be the cost of a Holden VT V8 EFI with loom, ecu and all accessories approx $5000 plus headers and exhuast aprox $800 plus bits and pieces that always caome up aprox $1000
Total with all work done myself $9490.00ishhhh and that is using a low km 5ltr VT V8, how a shop could do this for 10k is beyond me?

Guts wrote:You need same year as your nissan or newer to get it passed. Or any aged motor on straight gas.


A chev on straight gas might end up cheaper. Just something else to consider.

This is not always the case. If your vehicle is MC or NA category and has a
GVM of over 2700kg then ADR37 does not apply. Most commercial vehicle dont have cat converters or any of the other associated parts to comply. I would get a copy of the ADR's, work out what is required (which ADR is applicable to your vehicle) and then work out which engine is suitable. If you have any other questions on ADR stuff let me know & I will help you. What I find is a lot of people only read what they want out of the
adr's & not what they actually need. This goes for rego inspectors and engineers.

P.S. you will find the category on the compliance plate under the heading "category".

Canetoad wrote:I should start within the next couple of months, after doing a couple of buildups in the past I have learn't it is best if possible to aquire all the parts first as much as possible before starting.

I spoke to Marks and all the bit and pieces to do the 5lt VT EFI conversion into a GQ Patrol are listed below. This is retaining the Nissan clutch and flywheel.

MFK605HT -Engine Conversion Kit Holden V8 using Nissan clutch and flywheel Includes: Adapter flywheel housing, input shaft extension, thrust bearing extension carrier, flywheel cover plate, sprigot bearing and adapter, oil pressure sender adapter, water pressure sender adapter.$925

MFK625H/CK-Engine Mount Kit Holden V8 Includes Left and right side chassis brackets, engine mount rubbers, all nuts bolts and washers $265

MFK690VS/T-Interface Wiring Loom Holden V8 EFI$385

MEMSVTM - Mem Cal exchange $330

MFK6823 Fuel and Bracket Kit to suit all Holden EFI Engines. Includes Relay mounting Bracket, purge tank bracket, fuel filter bracket, map sensor bracket, high pressure fuel pump, high pressure fuel filter, fuel pump bracket and damper bracket, fuel pump clamp with all fixings screws, nuts, bolts and washers $455

MKF696-Speed Sensor Interface Kit Includes: Sender unit pre programmed interface unit.$330

All up $2690

I'd be expecting to purchase the first two items and manage the rest myself, with the exception of the memcal which I think can be done more cheaply than $330.

"Speed sensor" I assume means tacho? There's a guy in Brisbane who put new electronics in my Jag tacho for less than that; you retain the faceplate, needle etc but replace the bit that actually drives the needle and match it to whatever type of engine you've got. I can't remember how much it was but it was definitely sub $200.

One thing to add to the $$$ is probably a new clutch; I reckon I'd be putting one in at the same time.

The wiring - the hard stuff would be what is between the motor and the ECU, which you get with the motor. The other stuff would all be pretty basic I would think.

Fuel pump stuff makes me think the best way to get the motor is by buying a complete wreck, otherwise the $455 stuff is probably worth it I guess.

Anyway... I am not saying the Marks stuff isn't worth it, just that you could probably pull the cost down a bit from what you've got there.

Jason

You are correct you could probably reduce the cost by a few hundred maybe evn a grand but the thing I like about Marks is if you buy everything from them they give great support if you run into any problems and it all goes together well. I forgot about the clutch I will use a cetreforce dual friction. I think it gives people a good ballpark idea of what dollars it takes to put an efi Holden motor into a GQ. Sure some will say they can do it for three grand but for most I think the above is realistic for a good conversion using a good low km motor.