Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just wondering if it is a bad idea to try to charge the battery with all the terminals connected to the car still? And could a battery charger be used to aid in jump starting the engine?

Mark

As long as the terminals & clamps are all clean & the ignition is off not a problem.

Slow trickle chargers will not assist in jump starting, if you cannot fit a dual battery system buy yourself a heavy duty jump start.

Why has it gone flat, lights left on or just went out to start the car & it was dead?

If the later, check the fluid levels & battery condition if you can, if that's all fine check the alternator or that there are no other power drains still occurring even with the ignition off.

Longlux how would you check for power drain?

stilivn wrote:Longlux how would you check for power drain?

I know I have one on my surf, I just fitted a battery Isolation terminal, then isolate it when parked

I can hear something up the rear of the vehicle go click, when I disconnect & reconnect the battery. I only use it for work & back & collecting fire wood, so not overly bothered looking for it.

But if I where bothered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCT-YZbU5o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I havent run the engine for a while and it has gone dead so I am assuming it has a drain somewhere. Could even be the alarm.

But the main reason being that I had to take the fuel pump off to take out a welch plug and now even after it has charged on the battery charger I don't get long of cranking the engine to try to fix the timing just with the battery. I have tried to set it using another car as a jumper but don't get a chance to do it often and when I have. Haven't been able to reset the timing properly.

I got it to start and run twice but both times there was a huge amount of smoke and it wouldn't idle at all. In the manual it says use a specialty tool which I don't have so I was hoping I would be able to get it to run. Even if it's rough so that I can get it to a mechanics

Petrol engine?

2.8l diesel 4runner

shiremark wrote:2.8l diesel 4runner

I no nothing about timing on diesels.

The poor cranking time could be:

Engine hard to crank over (caused by the timing being out maybe, not sure one of the diesel experts would be able to answer this)
Battery in poor condition
Poor earth to starter (I've had this one)
Stuffed starter

If its smoking and running rough on start up the battery may not have enough power to get the glow plugs heating up properly, hence the poor cold start / run.
If you warm it up it should settle after a few minutes.

Charge it up, get it going and take it for a decent run to get the cobwebs out.
If after that it doesnt smooth up then it may be an injection or mechanical problem.
If it does smooth up, but a cold start next day it runs rough again it could be the glow plugs or circuitry is not operating.

The battery may have lost is capacity due to sulphation and its difficult to get it to come back to full capacity.

To answer your original question, yes you can run a modern voltage regulated charger on your battery without disconnecting it. However best to connect it to the battery first, then plug it in to the power, and power off first before disconnecting.
The idea is to not create any sparks or arcs which can destroy car electronics or the battery charger itself

If the charger is some old unregulated thing I would disconnect it from the car just to be safe.

Before I removed the timing belt and injection pump it was the dead battery from lack of use so I think the betters may have been on its way out already.

But after I put everything back together it just doesn't want to idle so I'm leaning more towards the timing being out and that is also causing smoke due to the lack of burnt fuel from a timming miss

When I have tried to start the car in the past the battery always drops to under 12v. Could this mean that the battery is not big enough for the strain of starting a diesel or is this normal?

shiremark wrote:When I have tried to start the car in the past the battery always drops to under 12v. Could this mean that the battery is not big enough for the strain of starting a diesel or is this normal?

It is normal for the battery voltage to drop several volts during cranking.

-Scott- wrote:

shiremark wrote:When I have tried to start the car in the past the battery always drops to under 12v. Could this mean that the battery is not big enough for the strain of starting a diesel or is this normal?

It is normal for the battery voltage to drop several volts during cranking.

There is always a voltage drop with cranking, however 'several' volts will definitely be a problem

Clanky wrote:

-Scott- wrote:

shiremark wrote:When I have tried to start the car in the past the battery always drops to under 12v. Could this mean that the battery is not big enough for the strain of starting a diesel or is this normal?

It is normal for the battery voltage to drop several volts during cranking.

There is always a voltage drop with cranking, however 'several' volts will definitely be a problem

I disagree.

- Cranking amperes (CA), also sometimes referred to as marine cranking amperes (MCA), is the amount of current a battery can provide at 32 °F (0 °C). The rating is defined as the number of amperes a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12 volt battery).

- Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures.

- Hot cranking amperes (HCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 80 °F (26.7 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive ... nd_ratings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check all timing marks again on timing belt sounds like you are out a tooth or 2

76 Tourer wrote:Check all timing marks again on timing belt sounds like you are out a tooth or 2

x2. One tooth will make it really rough, two teeth and it'll barely run. You shouldn't have to 'set' any timing if all you did was remove and replace the same pump - assuming the belt is set correctly.

I did mark the side of the injection pump before I removed it but think I may not have it dead on the mark again. Would rotating the pump only make small adjustments or could this be an issue aswell

Is there a minimum amperage reccomended for a dual battery system used for internal jump start?

Thanks for all the info so far

-Scott- wrote:

Clanky wrote:

-Scott- wrote:It is normal for the battery voltage to drop several volts during cranking.

There is always a voltage drop with cranking, however 'several' volts will definitely be a problem

I disagree.

Me too; imho dropping to 9-10V would be pretty normal when cranking.

Dep on the battery.... The optima in the Pootrol doesn't drop much below 12 when cranking.