Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gday, I did a search but couldnt find any definative answers. I want to run 37's with 550hp in a 2 tonne vehicle i want to be able to drive aggresively without fear of breaking stuff and i want to be able to jump it, would prefer high pinion front and maybe rear. i currently have gq diffs but i dont think even upgraded that they will be up to standard. i appreciate everyones input and experiences and feel free to ask your own questions in the thread. say a budget of 4000 for front and rear
GU: will stock axles and cv's handle what i want and if upgraded will the knuckles handle it?
80: as above, compared to GU which has better brakes and which is strongest when upgraded?
MOGS: after the added cost of pinion and disc conversions on top of the higher purchase price will the stock knuckles and axles etc be strong enough? will they handle high speed driving on 37's
D60: is stock strong enough if not what needs to be upgraded?
thanks in advance, Mat

Budget, I would say 80series, or 105series, 105series rear is tougher in stock form, front definitely needs to be built up. Braced housing, air locker (solid 4 pinion carrier), solid pinion spacer, Longfields CVs, 10mm hub stud upgrade(105series have 10mm studs already), late model disc brake rotors (oct '92 onwards) calipers and 105series pads.

D60s still need to be built up.

Mogs are big and heavy, not sure they'd be suited to high speed stuff, they would add a lot of unsprung weight.

Beefed up GU's would be the best you could go with if you wanted to stay within that sort of budget. Brace the housings,e-Lockers, Cal's and standard rear axles.

Possibly gu/80 diff. Buds customs has been doing housing to take the bigger Nissan HP center, change the side gears in your Arb locker and run 80 series swivel hubs. This allows for longfield axles and cvs which have a life time warranty unlike cals with no warranty!

$4k isn't much for diffs to be bought and built. If you want something that can handle what you want to do I'd be allowing 3 times that and look at spidertrax 9" housing, brakes etc

Call and talk to Chris ( Criddy ) at Drag Tech tell him exactly what your wanting to do and he will fill you in on just about everything you will ever want to know about every option. Chris knows his stuff and is always willing to help. 0400884088 you may have to call him a few times. His workshop is a little lowed.

thanks guys, Nothig will be happening for a while so wont be bothering any buisinesses yet, just wanted to get an idea on which way to go mainly 80 vs gu as i can probably get a set of 80 series diffs cheap. why build a h223/80 hybrid is the 80 centre not strong enough?

440 BB wrote:thanks guys, Nothig will be happening for a while so wont be bothering any buisinesses yet, just wanted to get an idea on which way to go mainly 80 vs gu as i can probably get a set of 80 series diffs cheap. why build a h223/80 hybrid is the 80 centre not strong enough?

8" crown wheel vs 9.5"

Better aftermarket support with Toyota.

Some 80series and 105series front centres have 2pinion carriers which are not rigid enough, they flex under load and crown and pinion end up failing. The other weakness is collapsable pinion spacer, they crush down more under load reducing pinion pre-load, again crown wheel and pinion fail.
Air locker, or another locker with a four pinion carrier solves the first problem, a solid pinion spacer solves the second.

My mogs cost me 3k landed... Tell me where you can get either a Toyota or Nissan setup with lockers for that price.... You do away with reduction gears and transfer case issues....

Stronger than yota or Nissan diffs that have chromo axles, heat treated gears etc...

You brake them tho! And yours isn't 450hp!!

mogs + speed = :(

My D60/D70 combo fully loaded and landed were around the 10k mark.

You'll prolly look at the same kind of coin making a toy/nissan hybrid setup hold up. And even then, with 550hp youll lunch them before long.

how high speed is too much for mogs?
110kmph for say 500km going to kill them or is it only the dessert racing stuff
what about rockwells?

The 404 Unimog stuff is the only thing you'll get in there for 4k. Making pinion adapters is a lot cheaper than buying lockers.
Their 7.35:1 final drive is not going to give you any speed with little 37" tyres though. I also don't think the portal boxes will handle landing jumps long term, especially with anything less than an 18" rim and all the offset and leverage that goes along with it.

The Dana stuff is the best bet for what you want, but 4k isn't even going to get you one end set up.

The Toyota or Nissan stuff can be built up OK, but will still cost a lot more than your budget and definitely isn't a "throw it in and forget about it" solution...

so if dana is the way to go, what about h233/dana hybrid, can do the fab work myself and buds recently had some side gears made to take 35 spline axles, or am i better to just go all dana, do reverse cut gears enable you to use a standard low pinon centre upside down?

Where can you get mogs for 3k???

you can convert land rover Sals to D60 easily enough. Just need to do the front then. A guy on Aulro was making and selling front Sals housings, or you could ship a complete one over from the UK, then convert it to D60.

series 2 rears are sals arent they?

440 BB wrote:so if dana is the way to go, what about h233/dana hybrid, can do the fab work myself and buds recently had some side gears made to take 35 spline axles, or am i better to just go all dana, do reverse cut gears enable you to use a standard low pinon centre upside down?

I looked at all these options. The 35 spline gq you mentioned is mine. I looked at EVERYTHING and went with buds 35 spline gq d60 cause I felt it was the best option. If you want any info just ask mate.

Hey wicked.

Did you end up with unit bearings or floaters on your D60?
What inners and outers did you use?

BB440 i'll send you a PM with what i'm running. It's a little bit of work but you won't bust it.

WICKED wrote:

440 BB wrote:so if dana is the way to go, what about h233/dana hybrid, can do the fab work myself and buds recently had some side gears made to take 35 spline axles, or am i better to just go all dana, do reverse cut gears enable you to use a standard low pinon centre upside down?

I looked at all these options. The 35 spline gq you mentioned is mine. I looked at EVERYTHING and went with buds 35 spline gq d60 cause I felt it was the best option. If you want any info just ask mate.

one question is cost, pm me if you dont want to post it up, why the h233 over d60 centre, lockers and gears can be brought cheaper for d60? was thinking maybe d60 axles splined to h233 rear 33 spline, then i can run shimmed lsd front and rear until i take the next step to lockers

rockcrawler31 wrote:Hey wicked.

Did you end up with unit bearings or floaters on your D60?
What inners and outers did you use?

BB440 i'll send you a PM with what i'm running. It's a little bit of work but you won't bust it.

thanks mate, appreciate it

Your not going to be able to build a reliable setup for $4k to handle that power and jumping

rear gq/gu should handle it stock wont it?

440 BB wrote: one question is cost, pm me if you dont want to post it up, why the h233 over d60 centre, lockers and gears can be brought cheaper for d60? was thinking maybe d60 axles splined to h233 rear 33 spline, then i can run shimmed lsd front and rear until i take the next step to lockers

$7950 includes a modified air locker
$6750 minus air locker

Its a great price when you look at the parts going in! The Ried racing kingpin knuckles are around $1200 alone, not shipped.

The only way up from here is a 9" centre.
I went h233b cause I have one with a locker already and I've never seen or heard of a front diff breaking in a front application.
35 - 33 spline by necking down is a weak point that I'm not interested in.

Not a chance for $4k even if you already had stock diffs unfortunately.



brooksy

440 BB wrote:

WICKED wrote:

440 BB wrote: was thinking maybe d60 axles splined to h233 rear 33 spline, then i can run shimmed lsd front and rear until i take the next step to lockers

that's what Dragtec where doing using a rear diff instead of machining out the front diff carrier to fit the bigger axles in. As far as I'm aware his axles are 300m that taper down not neck down ,it's another option. What milo is doing seems to be the go, if your going to do something do it right the first time.

Hey Milo what's your setup?

evanstaniland wrote:Hey Milo what's your setup?

I'll post it here since it's probably the worst kept secret anyway

Front

10.5" Solid axle 14 bolt removeable thirds
40 spline ARB
ruff stuff housings
solid axle inner and outer knuckles
40 spline 300M inner axles
35 spline 4130 outer axles
CTM unis

Rear

10.5" Solid axle 14 bolt third
40 spline ARB
300M 40 spline full floater axles


You could delete a lot of that stuff. If i was going budget but aiming for strength i'd go a Chev or Dodge factory D60 housing and retrofit the D70 10.5" ring and pinion set. Keep the factory inner knuckles and fit reid or solidaxle knuckles, run 35 spline 4340 inner and outer axles and CTM or long field universals on the front.

Rear i'd use a shaved GM 14 bolt.

After the cost of the D60 and 14 bolt, the axles are much the same price as a set of longfields. Spool the rear and run an ARB front. 400 bucks for the D70 conversion kit since you'll most likely be changing or rebuilding the diff gears in both anyway. 600 bucks for CTM's and 500 bucks for Reid outer knuckles.

MILO

rockcrawler31 wrote:

evanstaniland wrote:Hey Milo what's your setup?

I'll post it here since it's probably the worst kept secret anyway

Front

10.5" Solid axle 14 bolt removeable thirds
40 spline ARB
ruff stuff housings
solid axle inner and outer knuckles
40 spline 300M inner axles
35 spline 4130 outer axles
CTM unis

Rear

10.5" Solid axle 14 bolt third
40 spline ARB
300M 40 spline full floater axles


You could delete a lot of that stuff. If i was going budget but aiming for strength i'd go a Chev or Dodge factory D60 housing and retrofit the D70 10.5" ring and pinion set. Keep the factory inner knuckles and fit reid or solidaxle knuckles, run 35 spline 4340 inner and outer axles and CTM or long field universals on the front.

Rear i'd use a shaved GM 14 bolt.

After the cost of the D60 and 14 bolt, the axles are much the same price as a set of longfields. Spool the rear and run an ARB front. 400 bucks for the D70 conversion kit since you'll most likely be changing or rebuilding the diff gears in both anyway. 600 bucks for CTM's and 500 bucks for Reid outer knuckles.

MILO

So what sort of budget is needed for that setup?

A mortgage.

But Milo's choice is a bloody prudent one. IMHO around half your total build cost should go to building the strongest diffs you can get for that money. Too many people want to spend big on engines and then break running gear. Like some winch challenge guys spending 10k in a blown LS motor only to break a $120 nissan cv over and over again.

Budget diffs and fast wheeling just doesn't work.