Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Has anyone put a pyro on a naturally aspirated diesel? Just wondering what they'd run when pushed hard and how much heat a turbo actually adds. Obviously it all depends on the tune but I'm just curious. So if anyone's done it for shits and giggles let us know the results.

heard of a couple and they run much hotter than the turbo equivalent

That's sort of what I was expecting, any body else have any experiences with them?

I call BS on running hotter. Maybe if you compared the n/a temps right next to the exhaust port with a pyro fitted in the dump pipe of the same engine after fitting a turbo they'd be higher, but that's not comparing apples with apples. Think about it more fuel + more oxygen = higher egt's

danaz wrote:I call BS on running hotter. Maybe if you compared the n/a temps right next to the exhaust port with a pyro fitted in the dump pipe of the same engine after fitting a turbo they'd be higher, but that's not comparing apples with apples. Think about it more fuel + more oxygen = higher egt's

Nope

More fuel plus same O2 = EGT's.
Bring O2 up along with fuel and EGT's should be similar
Couple of PSI positive pressure by bolting a turbo to a NA engine with no changes to fueling then i would suggest lower EGTs


EGT's are a DIRECT relationship to fuel air ratio (within limits of the efficiency of the head to flow). I'm running 20PSI through my 1HZ and compared to when i had the stock CT26 ( i havn't touched the fueling when i swapped the turbos) i have dropped about 40-50 degrees at the exhaust manifold

rockcrawler31 wrote:
Nope

More fuel plus same O2 = EGT's.
Bring O2 up along with fuel and EGT's should be similar
Couple of PSI positive pressure by bolting a turbo to a NA engine with no changes to fueling then i would suggest lower EGTs


EGT's are a DIRECT relationship to fuel air ratio (within limits of the efficiency of the head to flow). I'm running 20PSI through my 1HZ and compared to when i had the stock CT26 ( i havn't touched the fueling when i swapped the turbos) i have dropped about 40-50 degrees at the exhaust manifold

X2


Same air fuel ratio will generally produce the same EGT's.

Ok if that's the case, why don't we hear of all the horror story's of N/A diesels failing? Or do they, and its just put down to old age or some other problem and not made a big deal? Why do turbo diesels fail? If there's so many fueled up N/A diesels getting around without pyros you'd think you would hear of more failing?

My guess is that they're conservative to begin with, and when people turbo their cars they up the fuel hunting for power without addressing the efficiency of the stock turbos.

And with NA engines that get turbos there's usually no boost (or off boost) compensation to tell the fuel pump to only pump the extra fuel in higher boost conditions. So when you labour the engine at lower RPM's/high load the pump just keeps on pushing that fuel in regardless of how much boost the turbo is making. Ergo the fuel/air ratios start getting unbalanced and EGT's go spastic.

SIMMO84 wrote:Ok if that's the case, why don't we hear of all the horror story's of N/A diesels failing? Or do they, and its just put down to old age or some other problem and not made a big deal? Why do turbo diesels fail? If there's so many fueled up N/A diesels getting around without pyros you'd think you would hear of more failing?

I can sort of vouch for a pyro on NA engine. During a test run after 1 whole turn in from stock on the pump, running a Gturbo, one of my intercooler pipes blew off. So it was acting excatly like a NA engine but with the fuel delivery wound up One turn.

As soon as you labour the engine even slightly, EGT's skyrocketed!! I couldn't drive it normally by any means... Had to limp it home very carefully

I can assure you the turbo has VERY minor effect on EGT''s if any... It's directly proportional to the stoichiometry of the combustion... Big words mean air fuel ratio. you put more fuel in it burns hotter, you put more air in it burns colder..


Lukey

Where all the questions are coming fromis that I've just bought a 100 series with a turboed 1hz, seems to be the first thing everybody states is that 1hz's don't like turbos where it comes down to tuning more than anything. I'm starting to think that a correctly set up turbo and tuning will have little to no effect to an engines longevity.

I tend to agree with you simmo but with the added proviso that a turbo 1hz has to be 'driven' not just jump in a point like a normal car. You have to pay attention to it.

If you remember it's not a 1HD i think you'll be fine. I think lots of people buy a 1hz, turbo it and expect it to tow a 3t van uphill all day long without having any mechanical sympathy. You only ever hear the horror stories, hardly anyone will post "great news my 1hzT has lasted XXXXXXX" if your not towing big loads I think you'll be fine. The 1hz powered 100's also had the weaker box, so maybe fit an oil cooler and change the oil.

Proabably not a bad idea to fit a pyro and get it on a dyno to check it out. What is the size of the turbo, the dump pipe, where is the rocker cover vented, boost compensator, exhaust size, what boost are you running, where is the pyro etc

I've seen a 1hz cruiser make 190rwhp on 12psi theres plenty of potential you just need to be aware of the limitations.

If you remember it's not a 1HD i think you'll be fine. I think lots of people buy a 1hz, turbo it and expect it to tow a 3t van uphill all day long without having any mechanical sympathy. You only ever hear the horror stories, hardly anyone will post "great news my 1hzT has lasted XXXXXXX" if your not towing big loads I think you'll be fine. The 1hz powered 100's also had the weaker box, so maybe fit an oil cooler and change the oil.

Proabably not a bad idea to fit a pyro and get it on a dyno to check it out. What is the size of the turbo, the dump pipe, where is the rocker cover vented, boost compensator, exhaust size, what boost are you running, where is the pyro etc

I've seen a 1hz cruiser make 190rwhp on 12psi theres plenty of potential you just need to be aware of the limitations.

I can only speak for mine but I've got everything in my favor ( 3" dump and exhaust, boost and pyro, boost compensated pump just no intercooler) the hottest I've got the egt is around 450deg. Although I haven't towed anything with any decent weight. I think it's unfair to label an engine as a bad choice to turbo when I'd put all failures down to poor maintanance or poor tuning/ abuse. Standard 1hzs have been dying since they were released but only under severe conditions. I am a mechanic aswell and I'd say I have a lot of mechanical sympathy. You can't blame an overheated engine on a turbo that's poor maintanance or operated error, you can't blame spun bearings on a turbo either, same as above, damaged pistons maybe, but the same could (and does) happen to N/A engines. You'd have to be chasing every last horsepower or abusing it to damage an engine but that's not the engines fault. Happy to be corrected in any of this but it seems hard to believe that turboed 1hzs deserve half of the critique the receive.

Not a 1hz, but a number of years back a friend of my brother's destroyed his Hilux diesel because it ran out of oil at night on the highway. He knew something was wrong because the engine lost power, and couldn't maintain 100km/h.

No oil pressure warning, because the light didn't work - which the owner knew.

The oil line that blew was a standard hose that ran around the back of the alternator (?).

It had an aftermarked turbo, but that wasn't part of the failure.

But my brother used it as evidence that "after market turbos are bad".

That's my point exactly, seems everyone is looking to blame something and it seems aftermarket turbos are an easy target, like I said my egts are around 450deg but I'd bet my left nut that a N/A diesel would reach those temps aswell. As for people getting greedy and winding up the fuel screw in there backyard and tuning it by the pyro there asking for trouble aswell, its well knowen that gauges are useless and unless there's a buzzer with a flashing light by the time people notice something is wrong its too late.

SIMMO84 wrote: As for people getting greedy and winding up the fuel screw in there backyard and tuning it by the pyro there asking for trouble aswell, its well knowen that gauges are useless and unless there's a buzzer with a flashing light by the time people notice something is wrong its too late.

I disagree. I drive by the EGT and boost guage and i'm pretty damned vigilant. In fact it's my main gripe about owning a 1HZ-T that it can be rather tiring to drive because you have to be fairly alert to it.

Out of curiosity, my father has a 450xxx km 1HZ that he wants a turbo for as he's towing a van a lot and is getting sick of the lack of go. I'm pretty hesitant to turbo a 450k engine but what is other people's take on it? It's a VERY well looked after engine its whole life, blows little to no smoke and is serviced very regularly. If we didn't want to swap for either a newer 1HZ or a 1HDT what would you do to the old engine to make it a viable candidate?

I was thinking

1. Pull out the crank from the bottom to do the BEB's, replace the conrods with the 1HZ-T rods (larger gudgeon pin) and do the rings on the pistons
2. Water pump
3. Timing belt
4. Rear main seal and general tidy up
5. External supplementary oil cooler
6. A2A FMIC
7. Radiator system service and new thermostat
8. Have the injector pump sent away to be checked at least, maybe even swap it for a later model 100 series pump that had the diaphram compensator on it.

Not the same engine but my current 60 was Turbo'd at 400+ ks now done almost 500 all I did was a compression test. It started strong and didn't blow any smoke.

Something to consider but 1hz that have been turbo'd seem to heat up quick and not be able to disperse it. You don't really hear about that on 2H's mine for example will drop a third on the water the water temp gauge when you go down a hill.

Anyone done any comparisons on EGTS before and after intercooling?

SIMMO84 wrote:I can only speak for mine but I've got everything in my favor ( 3" dump and exhaust, boost and pyro, boost compensated pump just no intercooler) the hottest I've got the egt is around 450deg. Although I haven't towed anything with any decent weight. I think it's unfair to label an engine as a bad choice to turbo when I'd put all failures down to poor maintanance or poor tuning/ abuse. Standard 1hzs have been dying since they were released but only under severe conditions. I am a mechanic aswell and I'd say I have a lot of mechanical sympathy. You can't blame an overheated engine on a turbo that's poor maintanance or operated error, you can't blame spun bearings on a turbo either, same as above, damaged pistons maybe, but the same could (and does) happen to N/A engines. You'd have to be chasing every last horsepower or abusing it to damage an engine but that's not the engines fault. Happy to be corrected in any of this but it seems hard to believe that turboed 1hzs deserve half of the critique the receive.

This.

I believe this can be said for any engine.