Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Does anyone have experience with them? Modified top loaders etc.???

Pick up the wheels for the TT tomorrow and am starting to get the ball rolling.

I REALLY don't want to use a TH400, and will look at any other option.
I have one here for mock up and it's shite, I cannot get excited off a 1960's casting / metallurgy etc.

The 15k (not a typo) Culhane ones fail often enough, even 2 by the one team in one event, so I cant get excited over a half built one. (yes they run 850hp)

I would like to go manual to avoid the auto issues such as massive oil coolers, clutch rebuilds etc.

There has to be a box out there that I can run all day every day and not have issues with.
Weight is not an issue and I am happy to look at anything up to 150kg.

All options considered, and really want something different to the norm.

I'm not looking to win, just have fun, and keep the costs down.

Ideally the box would be 4 speed with final drive @ 1:1 as my diff is 5.43, 37's, and running both short course and speed events.

One for sale at the moment - Jerico with 26 spline input / 32 out,
Ratios are 2.59, 1.93, 1.45,1

so with my diff @ 5.43 on 37”’s at 6400 rpm (450hp LS2)

Final drive will be: 1st 81kph, 2nd 108kph, 3rd 144 kph, 4th 209kph

Is this going to be strong enough?
I'm not hard on equipment, but it will be for race use in events like Finke etc.

I have looked at holinger and the price is too high for what they are.

Another option i am looking at is the box from a f450 super duty (tremec TDET 1664) but first is too low @ 5.81, meaning it has 3 usable speeds.
edit: was also looking at a GQ box and machining a new rear housing to remove the transfer. They grate when shifting at high RPM though - but they are pretty strong / cheap and I can run a dellows bell.

Cheers bru

Toploaders are fairly much old junk nowdays..... and try finding a good clean one for less than a couple of K...... even tired out rebuilders with bits missing will fetch stupid $$. I found a bullnose one for a mate recently for $1,000, the input shaft bearing was rooted, synchro's gone, linkages worn.....

How about a NV 4500?

GUtripper wrote:Toploaders are fairly much old junk nowdays..... and try finding a good clean one for less than a couple of K...... even tired out rebuilders with bits missing will fetch stupid $$. I found a bullnose one for a mate recently for $1,000, the input shaft bearing was rooted, synchro's gone, linkages worn.....

How about a NV 4500?

& they are a pig to drive, the gate from second to third with standard linkages is horrible. Then there is the twin plate clutch...........

Thanks for the reply,
The jerico's, gforce, etc. are new units 'based' on a toploader. New castings, gears etc for under 4k complete with custom ratio's (100's to choose from) - dog engagement 'clash boxes' available with a sequential shifter for $800

NV4500 is on the right path - ratio's a bit low though. Like the available bellhousings

If you go down the GQ box route then have a look at the proper short shifter kits available. No just the cut down gear stick. If you use one of these though, make sure your sincros are in good knick and you learn when to shift or you'll just crunch the gears like you said above.

They can be expensive but looked at lenco?

I have a NV4500 here and they're a STOUT box. Tight shift pattern but so far no one in the states has managed to come up with a short shift adapter. They have 5th gear issues when put behind one ton trucks that haul massive loads but i doubt you'll see that kind of punishment, and like you said you'll likely never use 5th.

they have bellhousings available for Chev, chrysler and SAE patterns as the came in both GM and Chrysler applications behind petron V8's, cummins diesels etc.

They do however have a pretty low first and a reasonably wide jump to second, and they tend to lend themselves to crawling and working vehicle applications as a result.

As much as i love them i'm not convinced that it would suit your application.

What about a Tremec T6060? they can be had new for 3k and i'm pretty sure they can be had with a twin disc clutch set up.

Thanks guys.

I have looked at lenco - they are awesome but have a shifter per box which is confusing!

The tremec tr6060 looks like a good option - only $2400 new with bell, 427 flywheel and clutch is $900 and use a como driveshaft rubber.

Mal wood recommended this:

Hello Justin,
What I have available is a Tremec TDET 1664, this is a heavy duty 5 speed transmission from a F450 sports truck and has ratios of 5.81,2.94,1.61,1.0,.77.
I believe this will suit,

Justin,
I will lift the top plate off the 5 speed in the coming day or so and check out the syncros, the retail cost is $4290 but I can supply it at motorsport price for $xxxx.
I should be able to machine an adaptor plate to fit a bellhousing from an LS1and set up a hydraulic bearing if you wish, the cost will be $330 for the bellhousing and $495 for the adaptor.







Looks like a dirty 10 spline input though? maybe the chev 3500 version has a 26?

Its really short which I really like / need with 30" of travel in the rear.
Looks like only 425ft lbs rating though - but its for a big chev / ford 450, so I would assume it would be stronger than a tr6060 @ 700 odd ft lbs and say 2000kgs (t56 magnum version, or 600 in 6060)?

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/english/pr ... R-4050.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cheers bru

Lenco auto

Patrol box.
There are about 5 different gearsets for them.
Good for 1000Nm but with massive traction and hopping wheels you might hurt 2nd.
If you want a really tough one Albins do a nice close ratio gearset for them (same as a TB48) but the gears cost about 9 grand.

there are things you can do to help them shift a bit quicker, same as any manual box.
Run nice synthetic oil in them and treat the brass synchros right and you'll be fine.
Toploaders are for little girls.

Since youre an offroader send me a PM and I'll email you the ratios I've collated for all of the gearsets.
I can fix you up with a decent clutch for it too.

I suggest you go with a 5 speed and spread your ratios nicely, What's the power curve of your motor look like?

Patrol does look like a good option.
Are they available in 2wd - in a truck or something that I can pillage the output housing and flange off?

Would they be stronger than the tremec 6060 that's also rated to 700ftlbs (just shy of 1000nm) in magnum form?
I would think that the steel case is stronger and if I machined a rear housing I could make it massively stout!

Atlas truck is the one your thinking of.
How about a manulised patrol auto, kewish charge $4000 build one.

bru21 wrote:Patrol does look like a good option.
Are they available in 2wd - in a truck or something that I can pillage the output housing and flange off?

Would they be stronger than the tremec 6060 that's also rated to 700ftlbs (just shy of 1000nm) in magnum form?
I would think that the steel case is stronger and if I machined a rear housing I could make it massively stout!

actual rating is approx ~400ft/lb , which is evident in all the 5th gear failures. As milo said NV4500 is the best realistic $ option.

5th Gear failures was never a strength problem, only wear due to a loose spline. Never ever seen a broken 5th gear. The problem was 100% fixed after late 2002.

The weakest link is actually the small input shaft but you can get a gear cutter to make a heavy duty, large diameter input gear and spline of your choice.
There was a guy with an 800hp TB48 turbo that broke the std input shaft and then made a heavy duty one and never had any problems after that.

details on issue in this thread

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 5&t=232309" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_

jerico still make the boxes and their ratios are ample in what you want and can get. they have a site but the price tag is there to suit the customisation

Seen plenty of comp vehicles hopping up and down on four 37 inch wheels and genuine 1000Nm engines without breaking them.
As long as you don't abuse it I don't think 700Nm and a pair of 35s is going to bother it.
Every broken input shaft I've seen in offroading is the driver getting a bit carried away on the start line.
Run a nice synthetic oil (of the right type, beware) and tear it down to check for wear regularly and you'll be fine with the factory gears.

But there is a reason the yanks all run autos.
I also know I haven't seen an auto in an offroader yet that doesn't blow up at least twice before getting sorted.

Albins??
Even albins gear set in a gq box (as above)
Dc

the albins gearset is over $9000.
they do a conventional layout box now based on their supercar transmission, I havent priced one but expect it to be around $25k

Robby Gordon is using the albino six speed. It's 20k + torque converter if you want manual with tc. Would love to go down that path but not at this stage $$ wise.