500kg car trailer to carry 2000kg

[AFeral]

Currently got two patrols a Gq wagon and Gq ute. The ute is my work transport and the wagon my toy. Rego on the wagon-toy is a bit much, being registered is also limiting me on mods I can do. So was thinking of deregistering the wagon, chopping into a ute and removing all the road gear with the aim of getting it under 2000kg. The ute is rated at 2500kg towing capicity so if I could build a trailer that weighs 500kg or less I could tow the wagon legally.
I know I've got my work cut out getting the wagon under 2000kg, I think it can be done.
Most trailers that carry patrols weigh 750kg. If the trailer was built to bare minimum could it be done ? has anyone else manged this.
Could I up the towing capicity of the ute if so who could help with this ?
Thanks for any input Feral

[rockcrawler31]

I'll be interested to watch this. I'll be towing a buggy around and it's likely the trailer will be a big bastard so that it can also carry a mobile workshop and pit area. I've been brainstorming ways to keep a 30' trailer down in weight

I think a start would be to make it yourself to suit the requirements. No ramps, just a small set of support legs under the rear that fold down so you can drive straight up on to the tray. Or if your worried about having to haul up a broken GQ, carry a set of minimally short alloy ramps, and put a hitch receiver on the front of your tow rig so you can turn around and use the tow rig winch to haul it up.

Use minimal flooring material just in the wheel tracks with an open floor elsewhere, and put the main chassis rails under those tracks so that you need minimal side bracing to support it. Perhaps consider just sikafexing alloy sheet for the floor instead of steel. Drive over wheel ramps, and make the chassis integral with the draw bar.

[brad 93hilux]

I've been looking at this a bit as well, sure you could build one that weight.
The trailer I borrowed off a mate can carry 3T and weighs 450kg (aparantly).

You can't have a full floor, just tracks where the wheels are. Make the frame and use alloy chequer plate to save weight.

But to build the trailer will be expensive, over 2T gvm you need a electronic break away controller, electric brakes etc. your trying to build for 2.5T gvm.

I will however be doing the same in either building or buying as I want to carry my lux which would be close to 2T I reckon.

Brad

[gu town]

No help here, just curious.

How much do you need to stick to 2.5t? Are you just concerned insurance wise or is the relevant transport authority that tough on car trailers?

It seems every second comp patrol is towed by another patrol. Are they all illegal?

That said, I've seen quite a few boat trailers these days made from that alloy 'I' beam. Something to consider?

[brad 93hilux]

No help here, just curious.

How much do you need to stick to 2.5t? Are you just concerned insurance wise or is the relevant transport authority that tough on car trailers?

It seems every second comp patrol is towed by another patrol. Are they all illegal?

That said, I've seen quite a few boat trailers these days made from that alloy 'I' beam. Something to consider?

Yeh have much wondered this myself, I did notice at Toperi a lot of what seemed under rated trailers being used too..

[evanstaniland]

Yes all illegal.

After being in an accident involving car trailers etc it was one of the first things the cops looked at .

It's not worth the risk. Overloaded your liable and insurance is void.


You'll need to cut out a fair bit to get you wagon below 2000kg but do able.
My bundy weighed 1800kg on 37s

So the 40s brought it up a little.

My trailer is 920kg, heavy yes but WELL constructed.

Evan

[gu town]

Looks like an uphill battle getting the GQ under 2t.

Evans thread

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... lit=weight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CRUZAAMAD]

if youve got the coin, get an ally trailer engineered. and build it yourself.

my local mechanic got his mate to build him a tandem car trailer from ally.

[joshy]

I think micka1s trailer was 500kg and legally rated to 3.5t. Mine is 3.5t rated and weighs 720.

[Lepa]

to ad my 2cents worth:

your trailer can legally carry any amount but if the tow car can't well your up the preverbial creek.

my current funds down allow me to do anything right now, however i am going to look into gooseneck trailers and how the use of them does/does not change the carrying capacity of the tow vechicle. my aim one day is to tow a y60 (either ute or wagon/cut down) by my y60 ute, hense not enough towing capicity and the gooseneck option.

not much help but if i can get some time to make some phone calls anytime soon i'll post anything useful.

lepa

[evanstaniland]

from what i was told by the gooseneck shop near me the capacity for your car is

GVM minus TARE weight = fugure X

figure X plus your tow rating = gooseneck rating.


Also remember the more you load onto the tray on in the back of the tow car it reduces the towing capacity.

[HIGH ROLLER]

Well Said and all good points Evan, I would'nt build an ally trailer had a good friend that owned an ally fab shop build one for his hot rod and he was for ever fixing cracks it just fatigues so much.
Also if your involved in an accident and someone gets hurt you want to make sure you've done everything the right way and can sleep at night:) Buy a better tow rig!

[sierrajim]

from what i was told by the gooseneck shop near me the capacity for your car is

GVM minus TARE weight = fugure X

figure X plus your tow rating = gooseneck rating.


Also remember the more you load onto the tray on in the back of the tow car it reduces the towing capacity.

However you need to take into account vehicle load, passengers, fuel and so on. For an actual gooseneck rating you need to get the manufacturers GCM which is the actual maximum combined vehicle, trailer and loads. Often you will find that this adds up to less than Maximum Tow rating + Payload.

[evanstaniland]

from what i was told by the gooseneck shop near me the capacity for your car is

GVM minus TARE weight = fugure X

figure X plus your tow rating = gooseneck rating.


Also remember the more you load onto the tray on in the back of the tow car it reduces the towing capacity.

However you need to take into account vehicle load, passengers, fuel and so on. For an actual gooseneck rating you need to get the manufacturers GCM which is the actual maximum combined vehicle, trailer and loads. Often you will find that this adds up to less than Maximum Tow rating + Payload.

[Lepa]

yeah ok, as i said i don't know much about gooseneck trailers, and am interested in finding out more.

as for the quote of: "buy a better tow vechicle"

i can't afford the buying cost of a 2002/3 (whatever the year was) the towing capacity of gu's changed to 3500kg or the cost of the extra money to pay for the toyoya badge on the front of a land cruiser. sometimes you only got what you got (actually own, which is an important factor to me)

that may sound like a bitch session but i'm sure i'm not the only one in this boat.

lepa

[turbo gu]

yeah ok, as i said i don't know much about gooseneck trailers, and am interested in finding out more.

as for the quote of: "buy a better tow vechicle"

i can't afford the buying cost of a 2002/3 (whatever the year was) the towing capacity of gu's changed to 3500kg or the cost of the extra money to pay for the toyoya badge on the front of a land cruiser. sometimes you only got what you got (actually own, which is an important factor to me)

that may sound like a bitch session but i'm sure i'm not the only one in this boat.

lepa

Buy a 4.5l gu wagon. they are around 3200kg tow capacity. 4.2td and 4.8l wagons are the only 3.5t capacity patrols.
4.5s are starting to come up fairly cheap

[evanstaniland]

4.5l petrol gu are 3140kg for manual 2500kg for auto.

Petrol 100 4.5 is 3500kg and coming down in price.

[bigorangetruck]

I`d go and speak to your local engineer, I`ve got a chev suburban which is factory rated at 5000lb`s (from memory thats just under 3t) but with a brake upgrade,air bags under the back,bigger auto cooler(not sure why he wanted that,but it was a good idea anyway) and what is called an R series towbar(hayman reese) which are a universal fit weld together towbar he upgraded the truck to 4 tonnes towing which when its loaded with my 40 series,tools,spare and people its 6.5 tonnes on the road all up.Maybe he can suggest a brake upgrade from late model patrols,different towbar and some suspension upgrade(ie,airbags) you`ll keep it legal. Dont tow illegal,I was in the same accident as evan,and the police crawled right up me looking for anything that was illegal,just not worth it!!!

[micka1]

My old car trailer i sold to pricey was rated at 3.5t and weighed 504kg ( 3 years old ) and still going with his heavy junk on it , used to behind my gu ute same rating 2.5t .. trailer part can be done ok .
probably find getting your wagon under 2 tonne will be the hardest part .

[Shadow]

I`d go and speak to your local engineer, I`ve got a chev suburban which is factory rated at 5000lb`s (from memory thats just under 3t) but with a brake upgrade,air bags under the back,bigger auto cooler(not sure why he wanted that,but it was a good idea anyway) and what is called an R series towbar(hayman reese) which are a universal fit weld together towbar he upgraded the truck to 4 tonnes towing which when its loaded with my 40 series,tools,spare and people its 6.5 tonnes on the road all up.Maybe he can suggest a brake upgrade from late model patrols,different towbar and some suspension upgrade(ie,airbags) you`ll keep it legal. Dont tow illegal,I was in the same accident as evan,and the police crawled right up me looking for anything that was illegal,just not worth it!!!

I would say the way he can re engineer your suburban is because its a private import. Any car imported by the manufacturer and registered in australia youve got nexto no chance getting the towing capacity upgraded.

All the 200 series that are getting GVM upgrades must be done before the vehicle is first registered in australia, once its registered thats it. So toyota send the unreg car to lovells, do the GVM upgrade, replace vin, then register it.

otherwise there must be a change to the vehicle that would justify the change in gvm etc. CHanging springs is not enough once it has been first registerd. Must be things like add lazy axle, dually rear axle, etc.

[def90]

I`d go and speak to your local engineer, I`ve got a chev suburban which is factory rated at 5000lb`s (from memory thats just under 3t) but with a brake upgrade,air bags under the back,bigger auto cooler(not sure why he wanted that,but it was a good idea anyway) and what is called an R series towbar(hayman reese) which are a universal fit weld together towbar he upgraded the truck to 4 tonnes towing which when its loaded with my 40 series,tools,spare and people its 6.5 tonnes on the road all up.Maybe he can suggest a brake upgrade from late model patrols,different towbar and some suspension upgrade(ie,airbags) you`ll keep it legal. Dont tow illegal,I was in the same accident as evan,and the police crawled right up me looking for anything that was illegal,just not worth it!!!

I would say the way he can re engineer your suburban is because its a private import. Any car imported by the manufacturer and registered in australia youve got nexto no chance getting the towing capacity upgraded.

All the 200 series that are getting GVM upgrades must be done before the vehicle is first registered in australia, once its registered thats it. So toyota send the unreg car to lovells, do the GVM upgrade, replace vin, then register it.

otherwise there must be a change to the vehicle that would justify the change in gvm etc. CHanging springs is not enough once it has been first registerd. Must be things like add lazy axle, dually rear axle, etc.

Incorrect, certain vehicles can get gvm upgrades after purchase. Eg i will get a gvm upgrade on my px ranger soon, but installng new suspension and thats it. Gcm i'd say is extremely hard to upgrade though

[evanstaniland]

Yea shadow = wrong.

Gvm can be done after registered. When I got the gvm upgrade on my ute I was told before registered means a blue slip was required OR after rego required engineers.

As for engineering different weights, mate got his gu ute engineered for 3.5T rngineered required airbags and 3.5t towbar.

[XTREME MMM]

GVM upgrades are a type approval for certain vehicles and can only be carried out by limited manufactures.

You cannot just buy all the gear and do it, as an engineer cannot just sign off on it. Refer to above.

GVM upgrades are covered by Canberra same as the ADR's and not the states.

You will also find a GVM upgrade is in the range of a 100 - 200kg and not much more if any at all.

If you have done a GVM upgrade of say 200kg, that now means your towing capacity has been reduced by 200kg, so a GVM upgrade will not help in any case but make your towing capacity worse.

The GCM always stays as per the vehicle manufactures specification.

This applies for Queensland and you will find the states that are now using the NCOP will be the same.

If you don't think I am right call Vehicle Standards in Queensland and ask them the same question.

Cheers
David

[evanstaniland]

the GVM upgrade i did was for 600Kg and another company in town had one for 900Kg

[XTREME MMM]

the GVM upgrade i did was for 600Kg and another company in town had one for 900Kg

It depends on what model of vehicle that you have to get the GVM increase and it will vary from model to model.

So that means you now tow 600kg less when loaded.

Because you cannot change the GCM on a vehicle.

Here are some increases that ARB have type approval for GVM upgrades.

Vehicle Model* Original GVM OME Upgrade
Ford Ranger PX 3200kg to 3330kg
Holden Colorado 2012 On 3100kg to 3235kg
Isuzu D-Max 2012 On 2950kg to 3220kg
Mazda BT-50 2011 On 3200kg to 3330kg
Nissan Patrol (rear leaf spring models) 3400kg to 3700 & 3900kg
Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series 3300kg to 3580kg
Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series GX (5 Seater) 3350kg to 3500 & 3580kg
Toyota LandCruiser 70 Series Dual Cab 3300kg to 3780kg
Toyota LandCruiser 76 Series 3000kg to 3600kg
Toyota LandCruiser 78 Series (troop) 3300kg to 3780kg
Toyota LandCruiser 79 Series (tray) 3300kg to 3780kg


Cheers

[Lepa]

so what is being said is that if you want to tow you comp rig "properly" with spares and camping gear, you either need a f-truck or similar or light truck/tilt tray??

[evanstaniland]

no it depends on how much you want to carry and how heavy everything is

[turbo gu]

Just think about what gear you actually need to take and also spread the gear over mates cars. If you are doing a big comp surely you would have navi/mates coming along that can bring a few bits for you.
That said if you are doing a lot of comps/travelling a small truck does make sense

[Lepa]

the point i'm trying to make is i'm trying to use the vechicles i already have. sure if money wasn't an issue i'd go buy a '06 td42 but when i got one that still goes good towing my 2t builders trailer most days, a td42 awaiting a decent rebuild for some good fun, and a petrol dunga as a parts bin/ get me through til the diesel is rebuild, then you can probably see my point. currently in email conversations with 6wheel conversions at dalby so if i get any helpfull info out of him on costs and towing capacity i'll post it up.

lepa

[Lepa]

sorry left this bit out - as for spreading parts, etc across the navi's car -

i live in roma, sw qld, so if start getting into events, my navi will be coming from brisbane, ie different direction, hence having all my spares, camping gear, beers for when crash out on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!