Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all

So i'm brainstorming and planning for some sliders on the 100 series.

I've seen all the various styles of mounts that go back to the chassis.

But i figure that since the factory steps are bolted to captive bolts on the inside of the sills then there's probably no reason that a set of more substantial sliders can't do the same.

They're held on by two M8 bolts at about 3-4 points along the length of the sill so here's my thoughts

The main rail for the sliders sits directly under the pinch weld of the sill. As in virtually touching it. A narrow length of 4mm rubber is glued to the top of the slider rail to stop the metal to metal fretting rubbing off the paint on either one. This way the body supports the weight of the rail but the rail stops any deformation of the sill if you get what i mean. I did this on my chassis mounted sliders on my comp truck and it worked very well. The tiny amount of deflection on the brackets under heavy load was taken up by the body work as it kissed. NEVER did i ever have any interference during normal driving.

There are sturdy L- brackets that go up to the existing captive nuts and secure the whole lot. Also if i wanted to i could lift the body 5mm and put a tab between the body and top of the body mount rubber. The tab sticks out and has a few holes in it that i can bolt another mount to if needs be.

the pros as i see it are this

1. weight saving of all the bracketry and tubing going back to the chassis
2. keeps the bottom of the chassis rail smooth with no hang ups. No drilling of chassis or welding
3. easier to mount the step and dismount for repairs
4. The slider only protects the sill from being munted, weight isn't an issue as it's the body's own weight that is the only thing that is being supported. We're not talking about a comp rig here, just protection when going over deep ruts etc.

Cons

attachment of the scrub bars to the bull bar becomes tricky as the bull bar will move independently of the body being attached to the chassis.

while it's perfectly easy to put in a pivot or rubber isolator in the scrub rail somewhere, it's that rigidity that helps stop the scrub rail folding against the body work.


Your thoughts??

Do you want sliders or just steps that look like sliders. If you want sliders and then use them as a slider, even on a rut, then you'll fold up your sill faster than a midget escaping your dungeon. The whole reason for mounting of the chassis is to eliminate the stress the body and try to keep it from getting bent. The rubber will wear through on the first trip and then the "slider/step" will bang on the sill and annoy the bejesus out of you.

There is a reason this hasn't been done. Those mounts are only reinforced enough to hold a side step. Not a slider.

toughnut wrote:Do you want sliders or just steps that look like sliders.

Wheeling sliders. Not "tourer steps, but also not king of the hammers sliders"

If you want sliders and then use them as a slider, even on a rut, then you'll fold up your sill faster than a midget escaping your dungeon.

Why and how? The (sleeved) tube provides the rigidity and resistance to point loads, and the sill provides the support along its whole length. Dave (80's) has his sliders built into the sill itself and it's taken a pounding on trips to the watagans and apart from being unfinished (paint yer shit Dave!!!) the sill is as straight as it ever was.

The whole reason for mounting of the chassis is to eliminate the stress the body and try to keep it from getting bent. The rubber will wear through on the first trip and then the "slider/step" will bang on the sill and annoy the bejesus out of you.

Again i don't expect the slider to move relative to the body. The rubber only just kisses the pinch weld and the only time there'll be any load on it to fret is when the car is actually ON the sliders (and that assumes that 8 M8 bolts can't hold it in place). Any other time there's no movement or contact to rub through. What stress on the body? When the car is sitting on the slider on say a break-over hump, the only weight on the slider is the weight of the body itself and it's not actually that heavy. The car would have to be literally seesawed on one slider to have the weight of the car on one slider.

There is a reason this hasn't been done. Those mounts are only reinforced enough to hold a side step. Not a slider.

Not saying your wrong, just playing devil's advocate to nut it all out.

Wot is dis paint you speak of?

They're a lovely shade of Brown with a nice non-slip surface now

The weakness you will have is leverage on the mounting point. You could jack the car up from the pinch weld, no problem, or prop the car up from the pinch weld with a midget or two, but a shock load from dropping the car onto a slider out board of the pinch weld will add leverage to the mounting points, that's were the weakness will be.

I can see no reason not to saddle to the chassis, you end up with three 8mm protrusions below the chassis on each side.
Weight saving would also be minimal with your method, lucky to be 10 kg if that.
Biggest issue with the 100 is the humongous distance between the chassis and sill, especially at the front.

These are saddled to the chassis,

Ok scratch that idea. Last time i built saddles for someone's sliders it was a bitch to get a brake that could do two bends 2.5 inches apart (chassis width) with 120mm legs. I'll probably bend one side and the bottom and weld the internal leg on at the bottom corner with a bolt over the top.

The sliders on my red truck had drilled holes and crush tubes but i don't think i'll be doing that to a shiny new 100 series.

I also don't think your save much weight.

Main reasons I cut my sill was to maximize clearance, ie, no tube below the sill and I cut nearly an inch off the pinch welds so I gained close to 3inches in comparison to chassis mounted sliders

What I did added about 30kg per side after I'd removed 5-10kg of Toyota's finest each side.

Take it you didn't go the 76?

I notice the grumpy old men locked your lcool thread!

Shame on you for asking a question that's been asked once previously, several years ago! Didn't you search noob?

bru21 wrote:Take it you didn't go the 76?

No mate. After driving 1.5 hours each way and specifically asking if they were ex mines i got there and a quick look in the engine bay showed they were VERY clearly ex mines.

lying goddamn carsalesmen.

80's_delirious wrote:I notice the grumpy old men locked your lcool thread!

Shame on you for asking a question that's been asked once previously, several years ago! Didn't you search noob?

thats funnae..
you just got to loove the pm's when you havnt filled you location, or vehicle.. thanks greg..

then the recipient puts in, just below their avatar......

" location goes here " ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa




ooh youve got to jump on exploroz..
thats a funny site....

see the old timers having a go at each other.. stupid funnae !! funny stuff..

ooh the arm chair experts.. and ones that looove to give their opinion and stop people discovering their own backyard


milo, you do make it hard to reply when you throw it back when someone suggests....... their thoughts....
just saying...

must argue!!!!

i guess what i probably should have said is "please discuss".

Like Pete said in his sliders thread, just because everyone has always done it one way doesn't mean doing it another is wrong. If it genuinely is a shit idea i'll wear it but in the meantime the only way to TRULY know it's rubbish is to tear it to bits, then try to rebutt it instead of just blithely accepting it.

That's what engineers do. They look at an idea then logically pull apart all the arguements as to why it might not work so they can see if there IS a way to MAKE it work better.

It was a shit idea, allright.

Now go play with some midgets.

Why not just buy some? Like ARB, tjm or xrox?
It's convenient!

But if you are going to make them, i personslly would be doing the 'U' saddles that wrap under the chassis!
Who cares about flat chassis when it's a tourer!
And it's not a damn race car so the extra weight would be stuff all!

rockcrawler31 wrote:

bru21 wrote:Take it you didn't go the 76?

No mate. After driving 1.5 hours each way and specifically asking if they were ex mines i got there and a quick look in the engine bay showed they were VERY clearly ex mines.

lying goddamn carsalesmen.

Probably for the best.
As I said on the phone, now the 200 GX is out there is no way I would buy a 76.

evanstaniland wrote:Why not just buy some? Like ARB, tjm or xrox?
It's convenient!

But if you are going to make them, i personslly would be doing the 'U' saddles that wrap under the chassis!
Who cares about flat chassis when it's a tourer!
And it's not a damn race car so the extra weight would be stuff all!

Buying would be WAY to easy Not to mention expensive.

Just because it's a tourer doesn't mean you have to go nuts adding weight willy nilly!! An extra 5 kilos here and there, 10 mods or addon's later and next thing you know it's all added up. Save 50 kilos in various mods and i can either save fuel or add it to the GCM when i'm towing stuff across the country. Besides, any kilos i don't add to the car is weight i can safely add to me

And it's also a social wheeler not just a "tourer" so as far as i'm concerned, good wheeling engineering is applicable for ANY car whether it's a tourer or hardcore truck. I mean i probably won't go shaving the diffs or laminating them on this car, but if i'm going to go out of my way to make sliders i might as well take the time to make them with a bit of thought right?

I hear i can get sliders from Braden for cheap though.....

M

rockcrawler31 wrote: it's also a social wheeler not just a "tourer"

Ah well! Bust out the 5" grinder, you can have a social wheeler/tourer like mine too!

Cool.

Where can i buy the custom taillights and rockrash like you've got?

Why not use the buggy for social wheeling? Seat time is a massive gain!

For sure. But it won't always be appropriate or in places i can take an unreg car.

I don't think it's an entirely shit idea. My sliders are mounted back to the chassis but only at two points, and they do flex up enough to contact the body. They spread the load evenly along the sill and have taken some big hits without damaging the body (they're working as I intended) I don't think you have to worry about forces perpendicular to the sills but lateral/longitudinal forces might be more likely to rip the mounts (in these situations the body will be doing nothing to support the slider). I'd imagine the M8 bolts will be up to the task but they may just tear right out of the body. My biggest concern would be grit and grime working its way between the slider/rubber/body (i could almost guarantee the sliders will vibrate somewhat independently to the body)

rockcrawler31 wrote:
Just because it's a tourer doesn't mean you have to go nuts adding weight willy nilly!! An extra 5 kilos here and there, 10 mods or addon's later and next thing you know it's all added up. Save 50 kilos in various mods and i can either save fuel or add it to the GCM when i'm towing stuff across the country. Besides, any kilos i don't add to the car is weight i can safely add to me

Best line yet, im going to use this excuse with my missus when i put on weight now.

Mark.

You can't buy rock rash like mine, but I'm sure we can find a few places where you can pick some up for free

I have no metal fab skills but I think it's a good idea, the standard panel is quite strong and very long. i think it would disburse the load / shock well. Some kind of grooved rubber supporting the whole step around the fold / join / lip would be good IMO. Not as robust as proper sliders but nice and compact and prob up to the job.

Is the missus aware of your social wheeling plans in the 100?

The only thing the factory mounts will be good for in your 100 will be to show you how easy it is to rip a captive nut from the body work and bend more than you ever expected. I know your driving and I also know that this will be much more than a tourer. So don't skimp on the body protection you Jew.

Here's a sketch I did when brainstorming this idea previously.



There are several quite rigid pressed metal reinforcing layers within the sill section, the factory mounting points are weld nuts in pairs on a 2.5mm thick backing plate.
I don't think they would tear out easily, the weakness will be in leverage bending the inner sill section were the mounting points are.
My thoughts previously were to add gussets back to the floor pan or the body mounts.
These would be a PITA to build, but I think it could be done effectively.

you can see my sliders in this pic, mounted to the body sort of



I cut out the sills and welded in some RHS and tube, I've added a lot of stiffness, but they've taken a pounding with no sign of failure, one step has a dent in the bottom of the tube from being dropped on to rocks.

Milo, your mounting idea is so 1980s Rangie.

Just hack into it and let the sawsall be your guide. It's only a 100 series.

Well in the end i mounted up off the chassis.

Two stirrups on the rails and two mounts that tie on to the body mounts (there was no way to get two more stirrups in with the design of the chassis)

Pics to come.

M

Found 4 points on my 80, you just gotta think outside the box and lots of screwing around. Hopefully have them finished in a few weeks.

milo what about all the other trailer designs youve thrown on the forum..
you started these ?