Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Picked up the Paj this arvo from ARB.

Front locker install went great they said.

ANyway was dark before I got home to try it out in my paddock.

Results:

Man that compressor is LOUD compared to my factory one.

Steering is much much more heavier when locker switch is on , so I guess that means it is working. I'll give it a much better work out in my creek on the weekend.

BTW Frank, thats great news about the 3.14 gears.

IS this project a definate goer, or does it depend upon them fitting the Gen 3 as well.

Any idea of time & costs yet??????????

cheer

Ian we still have to get the 5sp case just to make sure there are no hidden surprises and to check out the different spline on the input gear. If that is ok the drawings will be done with the costings for tooling etc.
Then we gauge interest for how many auto's/5sp etc and do a production run.
Remember these will end up being more expensive than the 2.85 gears because the drawings/tooling etc have to be done from scratch. Lloyd & Patrick absorbed the development costs for the 2.85 gears so this time the cost will be added to each gearset.
I'll try my best to work out if they will work with the NM/NP's because I think there are quite a few sales to be had there.
Remember the higher the volume the less the cost per gearset.
PS - now your fully locked you won't know yourself

Frank.

Ok Frank,

see post by ADO re trying to engage ARB when only in 2wd, will this damage anything , do you know or would it simply NOT do anything

cheers

Ian, it would not do anything....................
The left hand drive shaft constantly spins in 2wd which rotates the diff.
The right side driveshaft is disconnected from the diff because the free wheeling clutch is disengaged in 2wd.
The diff spinning (whether it is locked or not) in 2wd won't do anything.
Obviously you don't want to have the locker engaged accidentally and then engage 4x4 (shift on the fly)

Ian

My Front locker is in .., wooohoo

Cost $650.00 to be installed and I put the compressor and air lines in!

Regarding engaging the lock in 2wd. I refer to the fact that in 2wd mode at speed the prop shaft, pinion and crown wheel will be stationary, which means that the side gears and planetaries will all be spinning.
the problem is that the left side gear will be spinnning one way and the right will be spinning the other way ( the planetaries will force it to do this)
So if you are hooning along in 2wd and you accidentally engage the diff lock - there will be a huge crunch as the right hand side gear is forced to spin the other way (big pain for the planetry gears!) and the stationary crown wheel is instantly forced to spin up - ouch
so to stop this from happening I will be putting a relay into the diff locker wiring so that it can only be engaged when NOT in 2WD mode
I have to because my wife drives the Paj most and unfortunately I fitted the switches where they are easily knocked

Ado

Sorry I don't agree there, as long as the side gears are spinning at the same rate (which they are in 2wd) locker activation won't matter.
An ARB locker can be activated on the move as long as the wheels are spinning at the same speed (ie- one hasn't lost traction and is spinning).
Remember there is no driven load on the front diff in 2wd only the free rotation of the left wheel is spinning the diff. The side gears can't spin without the crownwheel spinning as well. I was speaking to Geelong Diffs today and asked him about this and he agreed it will make no difference.
The same applies to the automatic free wheeling hub (shift on the fly) which locks the right side axle to the diff.

Frank,

I agree with your comments for a normal from diff assy like a 'cruiser wiht free wheeling hubs where the axels are either both still or both turning but with my NJ with the automatic differential disconnect when moving (driving) in 2wd drive mode the right hand axel is disconnected from the right side gear and the left axel is directly connected to the left side gear and the crown wheel is stationary (and so is the pinion and front prop shaft)
This means that the left side gear is driven with the left wheel which means since the crown wheel is stationary (the proof is that the front prop shaft is not turning) the planetry gears must be rotating meaning the the right side gear is rotating in the opposite direction.

The side gears are can rotate independantly of the crown wheel by virtue of the planetry king pin which is slotted into the carrier which is bolted to the crown wheel.

This, in my opinion and ARB's (hence the big warning in the instructions) means that once you are moving in 2WD and accidental engagement of the locker will be catastrophic...,

however if it is engaged whilst stationary there will be no ill effect.

Don't you just love a robust debate!!

Ado

Pajman and I were discussing this the other night - what about adding a relay, coil in parallel with the solenoid which controls the front diff disconnect, contacts in series with the diff lock solenoid? The diff lock will only engage when the front diff solenoid is activated.

If there's a vacuum leak the front diff should be engaged, so the system should be fairly robust.

The alternative would be a feedback signal confirming the front diff is engaged - is there one?

What do people think?

Scott

NJSWB

I was going to use the switch on the front diff (the one the ECU uses for the dash lights) to control the same relay that you were talking about

Maybe this could be done without a relay, just wire the ARB air solinoid so that it is grounded by the diff switch?

I might have a play with this tonight

Ado

Guys,

I thought about using this feed to the dash lights etc to power the locker switch but problem is when the dash lights flash (as they all do) & sometimes dont even go off whilst you n eed 4wd then your 12v feed will also be on & off in sync with the dash lights.

so you'll have the locker cutting in & out til the dash lights go out.

You could also use the feed that controls the centre diff lock light but again same problem.


cheeers

Ian

I may be wrong (happens regularly ) but I expect the switch on the diff will come on and stay on, it's only the lights which flash on and off - controlled by an ECU.

If you tap off the dash lights then the relay will switch as the lights flash. If you tap off the diff switch the relay won't activate until the diff is engaged properly.

The switch is probably a better idea than the vac solenoid - if the diff doesn't engage properly (for whatever reason ? ) the locker won't engage either.

Cheers,

Scott

Scott

I definately wouldn't use the dash lights to drive the relay as Ian indicated for the same reasons that you suggest plus the ECU light driver circuits probable won't take the extra load of a relay coil (POP!)

I would still go with using the switch on the diff or try to ground the ARB air solinoid throught the switch on the diff

Ado

Ok so where exactly on the diff is the switch located & what sort of switch is it????
\

this sounds like a much better idea.........

Wouldnt it be easier to move the compressor switche out of the way so your wife doesnt hit it?....

If you put the compressor switch down beside the 12v socket under the radio, there would be no problem. All my ARB lockers that i have ever had, (7 in total), have never worked unless the compressor was on. Thus, if the compressor switch is out of the way, like in the place stated above, it would not matter if the switches were accidently hit because they would not work until the compressor switch was on.

Also, mine are wired so that the front locker does not activate unless the rear is on first. Would not have it any other way too.

I just can see the dramas!!! Unless you have shite loads of time to waste.

Ian

the switch is located on the diff and will look like the ones that are on the gearbox - like a temp sender

I am going to look at it tonight - I'll get back to you tomorrow

Grant

Jeez there are no dramas - I just thought that people should know what risk they run if they are going 160kph and the wifes handbag knocks (in my case) both switches on.

I already have a switch in the position that you indicated, in fact all switch locations are were taken except the ones by the hand brake.

Ado

Grantw wrote:<snip> ...because they would not work until the compressor switch was on.

Or there is residual pressure in the tank.

Grantw wrote:Also, mine are wired so that the front locker does not activate unless the rear is on first. Would not have it any other way too.

I agree that this makes sense - but what if you've only got the front locker, and no rear?

Grantw wrote:I just can see the dramas!!! Unless you have shite loads of time to waste.

Standard risk assessment includes severity of the consequences as well as the probability of the occurrence. It is highly unlikely for the front locker to be activated in 2WD, but not impossible. Given the severity of the damage likely to occur I am happy to waste time reducing the risk of it happening - wasting time is one of the few things I'm good at!

Cheers,

Scott

NJ,

whilst we are on the subject of ceompressors>

should the ARB compressor system hold absolutely all air unless it gets activated. If I charge mine up say at night & leave it, by the morning it will need air, sounds like it is leaking... is this normal or should I take it back.

Ian

Mine used to go a couple of days before it tops up again (haven't noticed lately ) so it sounds like yours leaks more than mine - but I wouldn't call your leak a fault. It could be that some of your fittings aren't quite tight, or they didn't use enough thread tape, or who knows what else?

In my experience you have to be VERY careful putting pneumatic systems together to get something completely leak proof - even "leak proof" valves have an "allowed" leakage rate, albeit typically in the order of millilitres/hour.

Overnight I would say is reasonable - if it tops up several times a day I'd be looking into it. Does that help?

Cheers,

Scott

thanks,

I'll keep an eye on it

Or there is residual pressure in the tank

My lockers dont work unless the compressor switch is on despite that. You can turn the lockers on and off all day long, in my case anyway, absolutely nothing happens. My switches are obviously wired up through the compressor switch to eliminate any potential dramas.

At the end of the day "Whatever floats your boat."

Ian
Compressed air is hot creating greater volume,as it cools over night it will lose pressure.
Try the soapy water test on your fittings.
J Top

Jtop,

yeah I have tried that on all joins I can easily get to, they seem OK.

you could be right though & that may explain the loss.

cheers

Lads,

The front diff switch that we were talking about is not actually on the diff..., its on the auto diff disconnect assy which is bolted to the RHS of the front diff.

Preliminary (slack) inspection shows that the switch has two blueish wires coming from it which trail along the RHS axel housing and then into a plug on the chassis, looks like I will be able to use it to earth the ARB air solinoid so that diff lock can't happen in 2WD

Gotta work this week end but will have mon & tue off so I can play with this.., I will post results if yer like

Ado

Lads,

As promised, I rewired the ARB air solinoid so that it earths through the switch on the front diff

the switch wires go to a plug on the chassis (on my NJ anyway) the wires on this plug are black (earth) and yellow (ECU dash lights sensor wire)

in the ARB wiring there area Yellow and black wires leading to the plug for the air solinoid. If you cut this black wire, extend it and splice it into the factory yellow wire the air solinoid can't engage unless the front diff is engaged.

It all worked well untill I turned off the arb compressor switch - then the ECU dash lights wouldn't work

to fix this i fitted couple of diodes , one in the air solinoids blackwire and one into the factory yellow

if you want I'll post a simple circuit diagram

Ado

Ado,

another way would be to use that earth wirefor a relay that switches the active wire off the ARB front locker switch.

that way you eliminate the need for diodes etc.

what do you reckon.

BTW how do you find the locker???

Ian

The relay coil will interfere with the ECU the same way the the air solinoid coil does - you'll still need the diodes

any way the front locker is brilliant, I've only been able to test it in deep sand dunes here in geraldton so far

I have found that it improves the traction going forward a fair bit but the difference in reverse (IE backing out of the sh*t) is unbelievable

I can back over a sand dune that i can't drive forward over - it must be weight transfer onto the front wheels

the only negative is the gross understeer in sand and the power on steering fight (torque steer)

Can't wait to find, steal, beg, buy, a rear locker

Ado

Ado,

yeah I was impressed with the locker too. I havent ried it in reverse yet.

Your diagram didnt download too well.

can you email me a copy to

valian@goulburn.net.au

cheers