Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys,

just wondering if anyone had any advice on this..

I've recently removed my steel cable from the PTO to replace with synthetic rope and bought 30m of 10mm AUS12 rope from Smithies..


Previously the end of the steel wire would thread through the drum and be held in place with a grub screw. I was hoping I could get away with just replacing a grub screw with a bolt to mount the synthetic rope.

But if you have a look at these photos you can see that the tab on the end of the rope is too wide and I'd either need to grind the tab or elongate the hole in the end of the rope.



I was thinking if I do this with a bolt and then place a washer with one side trimmed down, this should hold it in place sufficiently. I guess with the location I'll also have to use a cap screw instead of a bolt. I know I wont be winching with the rope all the way out and a couple of winds on the drum but will this be enough or are there some better alternatives out there..

Cheers,

Andrew

Its no problem at all. The grub screw doesn't take (or at least shouldn't take) any of the load. It is simply there to hole the tail of the cable. Just attach it the same way and never have less than 3 wraps around your cable drum as an absolute minimum. If you're worried about it and you have access to the center of your drum you can thread the rope through and then tie a knot in the end so it doesn't slip back through the hole.

So you reckon chop the lug off and feed it through the hole the same way the steel cable was? Not sure on cutting into brand new winch line though..

On my pto I simply thinned out the rope for 20 cm then fed it through the hole, looped it back and spliced it back through the live end. I made sure there were no sharpies on the hole to cut the rope and that was that. I did a lot of pretty near to capacity pulls like this as well as snigging logs no worries.

Another option is to weld a loop to the drum, I've done this on a mates high mount so the rope is attached in the same way as my Delta-Tek drum, just feed it through and tie a knot in the end of the rope.

tas80 wrote:Another option is to weld a loop to the drum, I've done this on a mates high mount so the rope is attached in the same way as my Delta-Tek drum, just feed it through and tie a knot in the end of the rope.

Ditto that. The knot will hold the rope. The common problem with rope is either the grub screw falls out, or the tab falls off the end of the rope and it spins on the drum even with many windings and makes the winch useless, whereas steel cable will grip with only a few turns.

I'd weld the loop on as in the pic, and be problem free ever after.

You could get an aluminium crimp used for joining heavy cable. Crimp that on the end, then slide it into the hole and lock it down with the grub screw. Or any small piece of aluminium tube and crimp it

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CABLE-JOINER ... 8be&_uhb=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like these.

On my winch when i replaced cable with rope, I tapered the last 200mm of rope so it would fit into the hole in the drum, then wrapped the last 5cm with duct tape, slid it into the hole, tightened grub screw. Hasnt let me down yet.

You really don't need to do anything fancy to the rope at all. Its not the lug at the end of the rope that holds it while you're winching. It is only there to hold the rope/cable when you have it spooled completely out. Like I said. Just make sure that you always have at least 3 wraps on the drum when winching and you'll never have a drama. Its the cable wrapping on the drum that holds it in place when winching.

toughnut wrote:You really don't need to do anything fancy to the rope at all. Its not the lug at the end of the rope that holds it while you're winching. It is only there to hold the rope/cable when you have it spooled completely out. Like I said. Just make sure that you always have at least 3 wraps on the drum when winching and you'll never have a drama. Its the cable wrapping on the drum that holds it in place when winching.

If the rope comes all loose around the drum, the end fixing on the rope will need to hold about 5kg of force before the friction between rope and drum takes all the load. Aslong as you have enough rope in contact with the drum.

I always keep a minimum of 10 wraps around the drum which is about half the drum width and gives enough strength to stall my 12,000lb winch.

The difference between 3 and 10 wraps is less than half a metre of rope.

But i guess just taking up the slack in your rope before the full load comes on would probably put more than 10 wraps on the drum anyway.

The danger would be winching out under load. Definately keep more than 3 wraps around the drum in this situation!!

Shadow wrote:The danger would be winching out under load. Definately keep more than 3 wraps around the drum in this situation!!

I just got an awesome mental image of a navi holding a loose winch cable at the edge of a cliff and the driver in the car falling to the bottom of the cliff.

Oh. And the length of rope on the drum isn't what gives it strength. The amount of wraps is. If you have time then test your winch with just 3 wraps on the drum. (this is the recommended minimum from most manufacturers) You'll be surprised just how little rope you need on the drum to hold it. I understand what Shadow was getting at though. The extra wraps really don't equate to much in the way of length unless you have some horrendously large drum.

Well.. Ray has offered to help out with welding a bar to the drum so I can tie the rope on but in addition to that I was going to use the strap that came with my winch hook as a "Rope Retainer" as seen in this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xavi1qzlfAI&t=10m50s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shadow wrote:
The difference between 3 and 10 wraps is less than half a metre of rope.

Dude. Did you fail at year 7 math?
50cm divided by 7 wraps = a 7cm circumference drum. Maybe your winch uses a cotton reel as a drum?

I wheeled with Tonka and he lost his grub screw on his lowmount. Despite about 20 wraps, the rope still turned on the drum and the winch was useless. Not the only time I've seen that happen.

Rope WILL NOT grip the drum like cable will. Unlike steel cable, it wont retain a memory and coil on itself. It needs to be secured.

Yet on my high mount in a comp the rope broke and we just wrapped the loose end around the drum a couple of times and kept winching. No problems. Different circumstances require different things.

GUtripper wrote:

Shadow wrote:
The difference between 3 and 10 wraps is less than half a metre of rope.

Dude. Did you fail at year 7 math?
50cm divided by 7 wraps = a 7cm circumference drum. Maybe your winch uses a cotton reel as a drum?

I wheeled with Tonka and he lost his grub screw on his lowmount. Despite about 20 wraps, the rope still turned on the drum and the winch was useless. Not the only time I've seen that happen.

Rope WILL NOT grip the drum like cable will. Unlike steel cable, it wont retain a memory and coil on itself. It needs to be secured.

Your right, 7 wraps is 1.4074335088082273708312642357092m on a Superwinch X9, most warn winches aswell i think.

If i said 7 wraps is less than 1.4074335088082273708312642357093m of rope, would it invalidate the point i was trying to make?

the point i was making, is if you really need that extra 1.4074335088082273708312642357092m of rope to reach your tree, its time to use a winch extension strap.

the rope slipping is exactly why i keep 10 wraps on the drum, it stops any load being placed on the atatchment to the drum.

If your rope is slipping because the ends no longer fixed, you can tie a slip not around the drum and your back in business. Its not ideal, but the winch isnt useless.

Try that with a broken cable.

If you'd done year 7 maths, you would have learnt about 'rounding' to a meaningful decimal place ie. 1.4m

80's_delirious wrote:If you'd done year 7 maths, you would have learnt about 'rounding' to a meaningful decimal place ie. 1.4m

I did rounding in year 3 cos I was advanced for my age.

wouldnt the rope retainer in that vid also help? That was the first time id seen them mentioned, used..

looks like its used to clinch the last few wraps tight so it constricts around the drum.

the retainer looks like a very effective way to keep tension on the rope left on the drum. Certainly can't hurt to use one.

If you use a grub screw, use one with a rounded head not a square head. Tension under load on the wrap over it (2nd layer) can be cut under tension by the bolt head.

80's_delirious wrote:If you'd done year 7 maths, you would have learnt about 'rounding' to a meaningful decimal place ie. 1.4m

No worries bro. I won't bother contributing to any threads since you've clearly got it all covered.

Shadow wrote:

80's_delirious wrote:If you'd done year 7 maths, you would have learnt about 'rounding' to a meaningful decimal place ie. 1.4m

No worries bro. I won't bother contributing to any threads since you've clearly got it all covered.

He was joking mate. Don't take life so serious. By the way. You're leaving a trail of sand as you walk.

Feed the rope through the hole and then do a knot. Simple


I have been running 12mm and 10mm rope on my pto for more than 4 years now and the knot has never failed.

I am using tape to hold my rope to the drum of my hi mount. I have tested it to stall on the first layer no problems. As others said, just cut that stupid rope cutting lug off and feed it in the hole and crush it with the grub screw.

Toughnut is correct. How you attach the cable has nothing to do with loading the cable. Its just a convenient way to hold the rope while you get a couple of laps of the drum. I wouldn't bother welding loop on. Just seems like hard work as you now need to smooth down another surface so you dont damage a loaded cable.

On my old pto Nissan winch i used 6mm stainless cable ( got it free ) , the drum held 180mts and all i did was wrap 5 turns on the drum then used duct tape to hold the 5 wraps in place .

Never moved a millimeter in 5 years and dozens of winch pulls

Many years ago at an early ARB XWC I had a call over the radio that John Butlers cable let go on a reverse winch, vehicle still upright.

I then asked the question "Did the cable brake?" No was the answer, it pulled out of the battery lug. My reply was, penalty - unsafe winch practice. He should have used a strap.

When I used to set up my synthetic rope to be attached to the drum, I spliced both ends with an eye, one for the hook and one to be looped on itself attached to the drum.

That way you can reverse the rope at any time during the event, and hang off the drum if you have not planned the SS correctly. That means you are never going to fall off the mountain, due to the fact that the rope is attached to the drum.

Now I know you will talk about the rope slipping (worse when wet), so I always stuck some anti slip (3M) tape on the drum.

Cheers
MMM

Or you tie a bowline in it.

XTREME MMM wrote:
When I used to set up my synthetic rope to be attached to the drum, I spliced both ends with an eye, one for the hook and one to be looped on itself attached to the drum.


Now I know you will talk about the rope slipping (worse when wet), so I always stuck some anti slip (3M) tape on the drum.

Cheers
MMM

Not a bad idea on the eye splice. Probably the best way with eleccy winches that don't have a hole in the drum. Like i said with my PTO i went clean through the drum and spliced back on to the rope so i could spool all the way out and the worst that would happen was that it would start winding back in as you went past the point of no rope on the drum

A mate gave me an idea to knurl the drum for 6" and throw a sleeve over the start of the rope.

Smitty