Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day all,

How many front Rover diffs have you broken? and what part broke, tyres size etc? also what about axles and CV's, locked or unlocked?

I'm trying to decide if I really want to fit a ARB locker to the front of my RR as only the rear diff breaks.

People generally fit lockers front or rear because they want the extra traction that a locker offers, but if you are only concerned about diff/axle reliability then suck it and see. If you find you are regularly breaking front end components then a 4 pinion carrier with 24 spline axles can be bought from Maxidrive or Jack McNamara differentials, but I dont think ARB offer the uprated axles or a non locking 4 pinion carrier.

Bill.

With geniune rover diffs its usually the cross pin that wears/breaks....

IMHO an Air locker on a standard diff is
You will just break more shit

'93 Disco 200 Tdi.

ARB diff locks front and rear (8 years old), stock 24 spline axles.
Maxidrive transfer case crawler gears for about 2 years.

7.50 x 16 (32") SAT mud tyres, 255x85r16 (33") cooper ST road tyres

NO breakages ever, no bent splines that I know of either. But I only drive mud/clay and have a guttless diesel.

This wil be interesting to find out as I have fitted my old ARB air locker 10 spline up front and run the Maxi up the rear. The rreason is that My dad's Rangie will be upgraded top a later P38A next year and it won't fit the later, plus he doesn't use it off-road much anyway and more use in Aquarangie

Going out to Beerburrum SF this weekend and will give it a workout. Will report to all if I do break something, I hope not.

Regards,

Trav

I had just the rear ARB locker in my truck untill could make the front axel strong enough for the locker.
I now have a 24 spline front ARB locker (in a 1991 90 which was 10 spline) with Kam ring and pinions (4.75) same as the back axel. Was going to go maxi drive but wanted all the gear in high and low changed. I aslo have Kam half shalfts (like Maxi drive but don't think they are quite as strong , have Maxi drive in the rear axel) which are 24 spline to mate on to early 110 CV's (which are the strongest of the shelf ones). I also have GKN over load hubs on the front axel as well. Which basically work like a clutch and stop power to the wheel when you come down heavy on the wheel . They will the take the power back up when it will not break the CV. The CV will break at 250 Knm2 so these are set to 230KNM2. Good bits of kit and will click out even if you put the locker in and then put it on full lock and boot the power. (which normally the best way to break a CV)

Personally I have broken one 4.7 R&P on the front and that is all.

The weakest part of the front axle setup on a Rangie/landie is the diff centre (for 3.54 ratio diffs anyway). I have seen a few breakages where the pin/cross shaft either snapped or dropped a circlip and fell out, trying to force its way out through the casing.

If you fit an ARB you will probably break either exles or CV's before anything else. I know someone running a 10-spline ARB in the front of an 88" SIII. They have broken a few axles over about 6 years. If you can spend the extra few $$$ it would be much better to fit a Maxi_drive or jacmac locker though.

What are these and were did you get it as i have gone through 2 110 cvs so far on arb lockers and 34jts and would prefer to winch out then break another cv


GKN over load hubs on the front axel as well. Which basically work like a clutch and stop power to the wheel when you come down heavy on the wheel . They will the take the power back up when it will not break the CV. The CV will break at 250 Knm2 so these are set to 230KNM2. Good bits of kit and will click out even if you put the locker in and then put it on full lock and boot the power. (which normally the best way to break a CV)

send some cv's to haultech for treatment OR
get new axles and longfields/profields etc.

Aliread, Do those GkN overload hubs work both forward and reverse?
Seeing as how most axle shaft failures are caused by fatigue, I dont really see the point in overload hubs on the rear,although they probably would save the CV'S on the front. Do they have enough bite to pull a loaded vehicle up the steepest hills likely to be encounted off road ? And are they yet another source of oil leaks?
bill.

suzidisco wrote:What are these and were did you get it as i have gone through 2 110 cvs so far on arb lockers and 34jts and would prefer to winch out then break another cv

Found them at a Land Rover second hand jumble here
But i was really lucky to find them (as rear as rocking horse droppings). They were made 10 years ago for the racing boys. But in the end costed too much to make. So they stopped doing them
They were made for the back . For when the racers land heavy on the back axel when going over jumps. but they have been found to be use for winch challenge trucks on the front only. They do work in forward and reverse.
Some people say they click out before they should and you could get a bit more power to a front wheel if you did not have them . But at least with them you don't have to spend an hour 1/2 changing a CV's. This is very important when doing timed winch Challenge events. But to be honest you don't really notice the differance as with them as you can go at it full bore and not have to worry about the CV's, but with out them you find your self backing of a bit to try and protect the truck

I would be interested to know how GkN determined the torque capacity of the CV joints. Was it in the straight ahead or the full lock position. If they did it at full lock then I do not think their overload hubs have enough bite to permit a vehicle to reverse up a steep gradient. If they calculated it straight ahead then the overload setting would be too high to prevent cracking a CV at full lock under maximum load.
cV's have considerably higher torque capacity straight ahead than when operating at a 30 degree angle.
Bill.

WOw now your getting techy. :-) just know they work . Don't really know the mechanical details.
I have had mine on for 6 mounths but my brother has had them on his 4.2 V8 90 for 4 years and has never broken a front axel, or CV even with all that power and 35" simex

Aliread ,This is not a criticism of yourself or British offroading , but people in the UK don't seem to have the same degree of mechanical failures with LandRovers as we do in the colonies. What works and is considered to be very strong over there usually is found wanting over here.
I could be wrong but I think for the reasons I mentioned before, the overload hubs would not be successful for the generally steeper and rougher conditions over here, particularly in the Victorian high country.

Bill.

daddylonglegs wrote:Aliread ,This is not a criticism of yourself or British offroading , but people in the UK don't seem to have the same degree of mechanical failures with LandRovers as we do in the colonies. What works and is considered to be very strong over there usually is found wanting over here.
I could be wrong but I think for the reasons I mentioned before, the overload hubs would not be successful for the generally steeper and rougher conditions over here, particularly in the Victorian high country.


Bill.

You want to bet that we don't have the same problems with mechanical failures . We do all the time. it is just how to get around it
I can see where you are coming from though. Where we do mud and you lot do rocks which are harder on bits.
But we do winch challenges which you can really put the truck to its limits, and taking them up really steep climbs at high revs with big tyres and a lose nut behind the wheel
But hey we will find out in April time next year (lastest) or earler when i will get my truck to land Curiser park (Queensland) and give it a good trashing on Aus soil. And 1 of 2 things will come out . I will show you how good 90 can be, or i will look a tit
As it will be living in brisbane for good from then on when i move out to Aus with it

Goodluck with your move Aliread. We do have solutions for nearly all the LandRover design weaknesses out here but it generally involves replacing everything with Toyota components, which begs the question,
Bill.

Just going back to my original question,

The reason I asked is I wanted to know people's experiences with front end breakages to see how often they break, what part is weakest etc.

I'm thinking with the ARB in the back and no locker in the front I should have minimal breakages.

But if everyone was to say they break front diff pins/sungears then fitting the front ARB locker for strength (have to fit maxi front axles as it's a 24 spline locker) then CV's with locker IN is the weak point.

see what i'm getting at ??

Well DAS, going back to your original question, and my original reply, you still haven't stated which of your vehicles you are having problems with.
If it were your stage 1 then a Maxi, Mcnamara or ARB with 24 spline inner axles would solve most reliability issues. If it is your 90 then it depends what model front end you have, and you may have to retrofit the earlier 90,110 or Rangey cVjoints, spindles and hubs as well.
Bill.

Sorry mate, haven't updated my profile

Its about my 4dr RR And I know what has to be done to fit the ARB in the front, just need maxi axles

rear will be running disco axles till I can afford the maxi rear axles

Have Mark Hardman Axles for the front of Rangies with 24 spline axles along with Airlocker side gears to update from 24 spline from 10.

Mike Smith, Steve Fowler and others are running them in Winch Challenge events.

PM for more details and pricing.

what does he make his axles out of ??... anyone know..

DAS wrote:Sorry mate, haven't updated my profile

Its about my 4dr RR And I know what has to be done to fit the ARB in the front, just need maxi axles

rear will be running disco axles till I can afford the maxi rear axles

In my opinion, the best option strength wise with what you have would be some custom 24 spline (for locker) to 27 or 30 spline axles.... You could then run Long/Pro/Bell/Haultech fielded cv's...with the option of the new 30 spline 4340 chromoly cv's from Longfield. BUT your next week point will be the cw&p.