Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Not sure if this should be in the nissan forum or not but thought i would get a bigger audience here, wife has a 2002 N16 1.8L pulsar with just under 100k on the clock. Last friday it just wouldnt start, engine cranks over no problem and my first suspect was the fuel filter which i repalced sunday morning but to no avail. After some googling and a call to nissan it appears that a common issue is cam and crank angle sensors, come as a set so i replaced both but still wont start.
Fuel pump is working and getting full pressure at fuel rail and at the return line to the tank, when checking the plugs i noticed they were all dry which tells me the injectors arent firing. Also dribbled fuel down the plug holes with no affect, so it seems there is a problem with the ecu or info getting to the ecu from other sensors.
I'm at the stage where i have exhausted my expertise /lack of suitable equipment so really need to run some diagnostic software to see whats going on and thats why i'm posting here. I have 2 USB OBD cables that might work on the car and with the datascan software but i need a licensed copy or an alternative program to try.
Cash is really tight so a tray to a nissan dealer or suitable mech is out of the question.

Does the vehicle have an immobiliser? If it does, this may prevent the injectors from firing. Check for fault codes on the diagnostic connector.

date wrote:Does the vehicle have an immobiliser? If it does, this may prevent the injectors from firing. Check for fault codes on the diagnostic connector.

That would work if i can find a freeware program with full functionality, nissan datascan connects to the ecu but as a free version you cant run any diagnostics .

Sorry - I cannot help with Nissan, but with Mitsubishi (and others), you can short out pin 1 of the diagnostic plug, turn on the ignition and then the check engine light will flash long and short flashes. Say 2 long and 4 short flashes is code 24. You then look up a listing and find that it is the cam angle sensor or the immobiliser etc. A check on the Nissan forums may be helpful?

So you have fuel at the rail. Have you checked for spark? If you have spark buy (or borrow if you can) a noid tester to check for injector pulse. Like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-piece-Noi ... 1e80c88496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


For something a little random.....are you using the same key that you have always used for starting the car or are you using a spare key?

RAY185 wrote:So you have fuel at the rail. Have you checked for spark? If you have spark buy (or borrow if you can) a noid tester to check for injector pulse. Like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-piece-Noi ... 1e80c88496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


For something a little random.....are you using the same key that you have always used for starting the car or are you using a spare key?

My dad has borrowed a noid tester but forgot to drop it over last night, yes same key as we dont have a spare. I just tried cranking it and it gave a little grumble but thats it.

Leave the key in the igntion for a few minutes before you try to start it if it has an immobilser.

Vapour lock on the fuel?

Fuel pressure is fine at both ends, pressure at rail and at return line to tank. Key was in for maybe 20mins last night while i was trying to get some software to detect my USB OBDII cable.

You say it had a grumble. That is a start (pardon the pun). You obviously have fuel pressure. Whether it is the correct pressure or not is not known at this stage. Maybe check this out first. No idea as to what it should be, but typically around 180 kPa would be my first guess.

The next thing would be spark. This is the most likely cause for no go. Get an old spark plug and solidly earth the screw thread to a good earth point. Then connect the high tension lead and crank the engine over. Look to see if it has spark. If it does, next step is to check as to when the spark occurs.

date wrote:You say it had a grumble. That is a start (pardon the pun). You obviously have fuel pressure. Whether it is the correct pressure or not is not known at this stage. Maybe check this out first. No idea as to what it should be, but typically around 180 kPa would be my first guess.

The next thing would be spark. This is the most likely cause for no go. Get an old spark plug and solidly earth the screw thread to a good earth point. Then connect the high tension lead and crank the engine over. Look to see if it has spark. If it does, next step is to check as to when the spark occurs.

It has a dizzyless ignition with coil on plug lead but if i get the wife to help i will check for spark, it did fire briefly so it cant be too severe.

An engine needs spark and fuel to run. It needs the spark to be good and strong. It also needs the spark to occur at the right time. It needs the fuel in the correct mixture. On top of all that, you need good compression. Simple to sort out this problem isn't it?

If you have spark and your fuel pressures are OK, it could be the sensor which tells the spark & fuel when to go off. I had a crank angle sensor fail on my Pajero and it ran very sick, ultimately not going at all. I guessed the crank angle sensor because the timing was all over the place. A new sensor and it went like a dream. Your best bet would be to try for the diagnostics approach.

date wrote:An engine needs spark and fuel to run. It needs the spark to be good and strong. It also needs the spark to occur at the right time. It needs the fuel in the correct mixture. On top of all that, you need good compression. Simple to sort out this problem isn't it?

If you have spark and your fuel pressures are OK, it could be the sensor which tells the spark & fuel when to go off. I had a crank angle sensor fail on my Pajero and it ran very sick, ultimately not going at all. I guessed the crank angle sensor because the timing was all over the place. A new sensor and it went like a dream. Your best bet would be to try for the diagnostics approach.

Well yeah, all the above is without saying. Its a low k unworked run about, nothing wrong with compression or other mechanical issues.
It is most likely a sensor and a diagnostic check will find which one/ones - WHEN i can get a diagnostic program that works.
Been working on cars for 30 years but this efi stuff is a PITA without the right equipment.

I totally agree with your sentiments. Long gone are the days when you could turn remove the distributor cap, the ignition on and flick the points open to see if you had a spark. I dread the day when my vehicle fails to proceed. Where do you begin? It is OK if you are within reach of help, but if you are in the middle of Whoop Whoop, you are there without your paddle as well. Having said that, it is hard to ignore how well modern vehicles do their thing. Compare the first Nissan Patrol or Toyota Landbruiser to today's equivalents. There is no comparison at all. And as for Lucas electrics and English cars leaking oil everywhere....

date wrote:I totally agree with your sentiments. Long gone are the days when you could turn remove the distributor cap, the ignition on and flick the points open to see if you had a spark. I dread the day when my vehicle fails to proceed. Where do you begin? It is OK if you are within reach of help, but if you are in the middle of Whoop Whoop, you are there without your paddle as well. Having said that, it is hard to ignore how well modern vehicles do their thing. Compare the first Nissan Patrol or Toyota Landbruiser to today's equivalents. There is no comparison at all. And as for Lucas electrics and English cars leaking oil everywhere....

Yes most dont give trouble, my disco is a tdi with manual injection and no lucas electrics - most reliable car i have had.

So have you had a chance to check for spark yet? Or got hold of the noid tester?

RAY185 wrote:So have you had a chance to check for spark yet? Or got hold of the noid tester?

Not yet, will be working on it tomorrow no doubt.

Good strong spark so this just leaves the lack of injector firing, i gonna have to throw my arms up and take it to a workshop - dont want to play with this anymore, i have a few other vehicles i'd rather spend time on.

OK - you have a strong spark. Does it fire at the right time? (Cam angle sensor/ slipped cam belt) Are your spark plugs clean and are the insulators OK? (This would probably cause mis-fire on one or two cylinders but it would still run).

You said earlier that you had fuel pressure. Is it the correct pressure. Too much or too little will stuff the mixtures up and it may not fire. Is there an air leak in the induction system? This will stuff up the mixtures as well.

Reading the codes is probably the way to go.

date wrote:OK - you have a strong spark. Does it fire at the right time? (Cam angle sensor/ slipped cam belt) Are your spark plugs clean and are the insulators OK? (This would probably cause mis-fire on one or two cylinders but it would still run).

You said earlier that you had fuel pressure. Is it the correct pressure. Too much or too little will stuff the mixtures up and it may not fire. Is there an air leak in the induction system? This will stuff up the mixtures as well.

Reading the codes is probably the way to go.

Its a chain and engine is in perfect health, sensor has been replaced so a diagnostic read is the best idea right now as there are too many variables with electronics.

Loanrangie wrote:Fuel pressure is fine at both ends, pressure at rail and at return line to tank. Key was in for maybe 20mins last night while i was trying to get some software to detect my USB OBDII cable.

if you have a smart phone... torque2 and cheap ebay bluetooth dongle - slow to 'pick up' but will read all codes and give you a good idea of whats going on.

shakes wrote:

Loanrangie wrote:Fuel pressure is fine at both ends, pressure at rail and at return line to tank. Key was in for maybe 20mins last night while i was trying to get some software to detect my USB OBDII cable.

if you have a smart phone... torque2 and cheap ebay bluetooth dongle - slow to 'pick up' but will read all codes and give you a good idea of whats going on.

I have a working OBDII cable but the only prgram i could get it to work with required a license for diagnostics, towed the car to the mechs today ( as much as i hate to ) luckily my old man is in the trade and has a lot of contacts and any parts will be @ trade.