Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Im looking at getting a crusier and i have been looking at the last of the 80s and a couple of 100s, now the question is am i better off with a 80 with a 1hd-t or a 100 with a 1hz with aftermarket turbo. There are a few good look 100s out there with professionally installed turbo kits in my price range with a good level of kms. A little help and info would be great on these engines and which is the better car for everyday, the 100 does seem better finished and a little more room but i dont mind the 80 either.

Mark.

Get a standard 1hz 100
Then slowly build up the parts to do a direct injection head conversion using the 1hdt head and stuff.. pump and turbo

youll have the strong bottom end of a 1hz..
and save the money in the long run not having to do a BEB every 100k like with a 1hdt motor.


1hdt heads are bullet proof
can handle overheating better than a 1hz

They are both crap engines.

Buy a cheap petrol 105 series, convert it to a 1hd-fte.

oldmate wrote:They are both crap engines.

Buy a cheap petrol 105 series, convert it to a 1hd-fte.

If I had the money I would just buy a 105 with a 1hd fate as there wouldn't be much of a price difference by the end of the conversion to make the time and effort worth while.

Mark.

oldmate wrote:They are both crap engines.

Buy a cheap petrol 105 series, convert it to a 1hd-fte.

Bollocks. I've got a FTE and a i wouldn't go back if you paid me but bang for buck the 1HDT is an excellent motor. The cost difference between installing a FTE and all the jiggery pokery that comes with it is astronomical compared to either converting a 1hz or implanting the 1HDT long engine.

1HDT''s are non electronic and all the headaches that come with that, and can be had for about 4-5k as a second hand long motor if you look about. Sell a running late model 1HZ for about 2-3k and you're not too much into it.

Alternatively, pull down a good running 1HZ, sell the long head for 500 bucks ( a new bare head is over a grand), sell the pump for same, Get a 1HDT head for about 2k, and a pump for about a grand and the conrods/pistons for about the same.. You're 3k into it. That's all assuming good second hand parts

My Brother in law bought my 75 series competition rig with the 1 HZ blown, paid 6k for a long 1HDT and all accessories (which is over the money but he didn't have time to faff about). It now breaks traction in the clutch in 3rd and 4th. That's a brand new centreforce clutch. It keeps up with mine on the road as well.

I say if you're prepared to do a bit of work, and then a 1HDT in a HZJ105 is a very cost effective option.

I wasn't really looking at modifying the engine (if i wanted to do that i would buy a blown 3l patrol or a mega high km 2.8 patrol and put a fte in it), i just wanted a tourer that would spend 85% of time on road incl towing a small 16ft caravan and off road will only be mild dirt trails and the occasional beach trip.

I know everyone has a opinion on what is best and they all differ from each other but i have narrowed down to these 2 cruisers and that was hard to do with the temptation of the dual cab utes out there.

Mark.

Exactly right milo. The amount of crap I read from the guys who have converted to stock 1HDFTE's is rediculous. They recon they have so much power it's not funny, snap axles etc etc. I deal with plenty of them, and they are fantastic engines with the POTENTIAL for great power. The same as the guys FT vs DT. But the engine stats

1HZ - 94kw/271nm - 2200rpm
1HDT - 115kw/357nm - 1800rpm
1HDFT - 118kw/357nm - 1800rpm
1HDFTE - 122kw/380nm - 1800rpm

Now in real life. A couple of hundred $ for a good tune on the DT and run it against a FTE = nothing in it between them.

TheBigBoy wrote:Exactly right milo. The amount of crap I read from the guys who have converted to stock 1HDFTE's is rediculous. They recon they have so much power it's not funny, snap axles etc etc. I deal with plenty of them, and they are fantastic engines with the POTENTIAL for great power. The same as the guys FT vs DT. But the engine stats

1HZ - 94kw/271nm - 2200rpm
1HDT - 115kw/357nm - 1800rpm
1HDFT - 118kw/357nm - 1800rpm
1HDFTE - 122kw/380nm - 1800rpm

Now in real life. A couple of hundred $ for a good tune on the DT and run it against a FTE = nothing in it between them.

Thank you for this information, there is not alot between the figures of a 1hdt and a 1hdfte, i no a good tune will bring a dt upto a fdte but also a good tune on a fdte will make it better again. I dont have the money for a fdte so i may look more into a 80.

Is there any down fall to a turbo 1hz if done professionally by a reputable person for standard day to day use and when loaded with gear and caravan would lucky to weigh in at 2.5t? The 100 seems roomier and a little more comfortable.

Mark.

You can't just tune the FTE. You need to change the computer.

Apart from the potential heat issues with a turbo 1hz, 105 series, this model also has a weaker gearbox that has given plenty of people problems, especially when towing with a turbo motor.

I think you are better off going with the 80 series, 1hd-t. But have the big end bearings checked out before you go anywhere.

oldmate wrote:Apart from the potential heat issues with a turbo 1hz, 105 series, this model also has a weaker gearbox that has given plenty of people problems, especially when towing with a turbo motor.

I think you are better off going with the 80 series, 1hd-t. But have the big end bearings checked out before you go anywhere.

This. Almost.

The 1HZ can be run reasonably safely with turbo if you're not greedy. In fact it's far more tractable down low off boost as they have higher compression from factory. However the truth of it is that to truly run it safely you really need to "drive" the car instead of getting in, turning the key and pointing the car. You end up watching the engine's vitals and temperatures all the time, and you need to. Trust me when i say that this makes them a LOT more tiring to drive than a factory turbo. I can literally jump into my FTE 100 series, tow heavy across the country and know that i don't really have to watch the temp guage. I DO from time to time but i'm not on it like a hawk. Nett result is that i'm far less fatigued.

Also like old mate said, they factory gearbox in the 1HZ 105's is the smaller R series box.

I'd still consider the HZ 105 though. The 80 is a comfy car but the 105 is REALLY comfy. The prices for HDT 80's are still up there in comparison to their NA cousins, and the same holds true for 105's vs. 100's. You can get a lot of car in a 1HZ 105 for the money, and by the time you drop a gearbox in from a petrol 100, and a 1HDT, then sell the original engine and gearbox you won't be down a huge amount. You'll have a modern, comfy car, with a very tough and tuneable (for later on) engine.

MARKx4 wrote:I wasn't really looking at modifying the engine (if i wanted to do that i would buy a blown 3l patrol or a mega high km 2.8 patrol and put a fte in it),
Mark.

HDT swap into HZ engine bay is about the easiest conversion you'll ever do. No need to touch the engine itself. They share a parent block so engine and gearbox mounts are exactly the same. Fuel system is on the same side and location, just about everything is the same. I think the only difference is that there may be some size differences between the R series gearbox in the 105's and any H series gearbox from a turbo or petrol engine. You might have some jiggery pokery with shifter locations, maybe not.

This is my experience-

I stumbled across a standard 80 wagon a couple of years ago, 1998 model, 190 000km, 1HZ, wasn't really looking for one but the old fella who was selling it took my $8500 offer. Its the best thing I ever did. I probably would have been looking for a 105 Cruiser when I got around to it, but now I prefer the look and size of the 80. Go for the 1996 on model to get the 3500 kg towing capacity (earlier only 2500kg).

I got a 1hdft a year later for $6500 (it took a while to get one this cheap). Changed water pump, big ends (old ones were perfect), timing belt, checked tappets another $500 or so. New Exedy safari tuff clutch $600 ish. Beaudesert 3" exhaust $1100 ish. Sold the 1hz for $2500. Swapped the engines over myself, even though its all bolt in it took me a few days, a fair bit of effort involved.

Found a pair of factory diff lockers on outers for $800 (still swapping these over). Probably spent another $1000 or so on minor bits and pieces. Sliders and rear bar $3000, 2.5" suspension $1800.

The new engine is no powerhouse, when I decide on an intercooler it will get that and a gturbo. Although I am pretty happy with the truck so far so spending another $5k plus on this does make me wonder if it's worth it. Probably should change the radiator soon too, that will be another $700ish.

So that might give you an idea of some costs. I drive my dads 105 Cruiser sometimes (2005, 130km), his looks newer and feels newer inside, cost him about the same second hand as my whole build, but its still a standard 1hz.

Thank you for your reply's, i think ill keep a eye out for both and what ever comes up best value ill get. If it is a 80 i wont mind as i enjoy driving a friends,not as nice as my other friends 100 petrol on gas but still nice and if i get a 100 and keep a eye out for a conversion parts which i really didn't want to do but may be the cost of wanting the more comfortable vehicle of the 2.

Mark.

Well given the type of driving you say you are going to do, an IFS 100 series would make more sense.

That gives you the factory turbo diesel option.

The down side is it costs a bit more money to buy. I would assume you are in the 10-20k range now. A good TD 100 will be high 20s.

But the reality is if you went the 105 route, and ended up doing the 1hd-t conversion (and the inherent gearbox conversion) you would be looking at investing the same money into the vehicle anyway. So the question would be do I spend more money initially, or more money over a longer period of time.

And to throw another spanner in the works, a 100 series v8 with injected gas offers a very good tow vehicle for very little money.

oldmate wrote:Well given the type of driving you say you are going to do, an IFS 100 series would make more sense.

That gives you the factory turbo diesel option.

The down side is it costs a bit more money to buy. I would assume you are in the 10-20k range now. A good TD 100 will be high 20s.

But the reality is if you went the 105 route, and ended up doing the 1hd-t conversion (and the inherent gearbox conversion) you would be looking at investing the same money into the vehicle anyway. So the question would be do I spend more money initially, or more money over a longer period of time.

And to throw another spanner in the works, a 100 series v8 with injected gas offers a very good tow vehicle for very little money.

I have thought very hard about a V8 on gas but some of the places we go will be hard to find gas though, have been trying to work out if it is worth it. I would hate to pay for petrol in our trips across the nulabor that's all.

Mark.

Mates getting 12 in his uzj 100 on the highway
max is 16 around town

the v8 petrol are soo cheap
come loaded with comfort and power standard

ooh and that noise

i love it

CRUZAAMAD wrote:Mates getting 12 in his uzj 100 on the highway
max is 16 around town

the v8 petrol are soo cheap
come loaded with comfort and power standard

ooh and that noise

i love it

With 2" lift, 285/75R17's and low profile roof rack we're getting 20-22's around town, down to 17 on the highway.. definately not cheap in my books..

Cheap to buy shorty40

[quote="MARKx4"][quote="TheBigBoy"]Exactly right milo. The amount of crap I read from the guys who have converted to stock 1HDFTE's is rediculous. They recon they have so much power it's not funny, snap axles etc etc. I deal with plenty of them, and they are fantastic engines with the POTENTIAL for great power. The same as the guys FT vs DT. But the engine stats

1HZ - 94kw/271nm - 2200rpm
1HDT - 115kw/357nm - 1800rpm
1HDFT - 118kw/357nm - 1800rpm


1HDFTE - 122kw/380nm - 1800rpm

The UTE is 122kw
the wagon is 155kw and 430nm

That's the intercooled version mate.

"The version with intercooler as fitted to HDJ100 station wagons has 202 hp (151 kW) at 3400 rpm with 317.1 lb·ft (430 N·m) of torque at 1200-3200 rpm with a redline reaching 4000 rpm. A lower output 122 kW non-intercooled version powers HDJ78 Troop Carrier and HDJ79 Utility versions."

Are you sure someone's not having a lend of you? As I've never heard of 12 from the V8. More like 17

My mate has a v8
around town its 16 17
Highway its 12

Even took a pic for me

as im getting 17 out of a 2h slugger
empty or loaded same economy
goes pretty good empty for a 30 year old truck

TheBigBoy wrote:That's the intercooled version mate.

"The version with intercooler as fitted to HDJ100 station wagons has 202 hp (151 kW) at 3400 rpm with 317.1 lb·ft (430 N·m) of torque at 1200-3200 rpm with a redline reaching 4000 rpm. A lower output 122 kW non-intercooled version powers HDJ78 Troop Carrier and HDJ79 Utility versions."

Are you sure someone's not having a lend of you? As I've never heard of 12 from the V8. More like 17

lets keep it simple champ
theres a bit more than just an intercooler to it


but keep it in the general context of the topic

Lets here your theory? We have a FTE with 233rwkw/950nm. Do both the utes and wagons.

The only way you'll get those figures out of a v8 is if you drive very slowly.

So slowly that you will be dragged off by people in the 2h powered landcruisers

17 litres is horrendous for a 2h. I was getting 11-12 in my 60 series.

What is the 4.5 petrol like on fuel? There are allot of them out there cheap with low kms and pretty well kitted out already

Mark.

TheBigBoy wrote:Lets here your theory? We have a FTE with 233rwkw/950nm. Do both the utes and wagons.

as I said..
your getting away from the thread..

ill pm you with the info I have

dig it out of the laptop or my email account.

the injectors and pump are different.
few bits here and their.

THRASHLUX..
from this site..


the 4.5 petrol is worse on fuel than the v8 average 16 stock..
a mate had one and another guy has one.
only benefit is the solid axle setup.. easy and cheap lifts.

ill get a photo and upload it of the v8 economy readout in the dash

I get 14-18 highway-city, driving 'normally'. Thats with an auto. They do seem to be a bit better than the manuals when not towing. You can easily make it more using the power.

Towing is 25+

Also the 1fz has its own problems. They like to drink the oil as well as the petrol. Very expensive fix if you can't remove/refit the head yourself.
I would avoid buying a model already converted to gas also.

I'm on my 2nd 1FZ auto. Fuel is 16.8 around town auto driving normally.

Towing or soft sand it escalates quickly though.

You can make them better with a good computer and an exhaust. They are very rich and tuned to last 1mil ks from Toyota. Valve stem seals can be a problem. Solid Axle front too so its a trade off I guess.

1hzs are heaps shit, they don't last long and you can'tget any power out of them.

I used to agree with you mate but frankly they're not a pinch on a factory turbo diesel. Even if you don't blow the head, you'll fark something else.

Mine was not overfuelling, and EGT's were definately manageable. But i still managed to crack ALL six pistons AND cracked the crank.

You'll get great power and low end torque, for a while........