Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:49 pm**

Hello everyone,

I am currently locked in a dispute with a manufacturer of long range tanks about the quality of the welding/fabrication on a tank I purchased.

I have photos of the welding and have shown them to the company who stalled and stalled, then offered a refund. I said I wanted a tank welded properly, not a refund.
The tank is pressure tested before leaving, and is leak free. My concern is longevity over corrugations and just the general shit my ute sees that results in worm drive hose clamps coming loose all the ShortyIQ time

So my argument is, the welding is
A messy.
B cold
C too fast
D going to crack
keep in mind the tank is made from 2.5mm plate, so should be plenty to weld to.

I can show this to my engineer and see what he has to say, but I would like to sort this without going to that extreme, and I respect alot of the guys on here who are great with the welder.
I dont expect the tank to be Tig'd to perfection, mig is fine, but professional shouldnt be too much to ask

I will include the email I sent, with links to the photos, if not the page will be too massive if I [img] all the photos.

OK, I took some photos.

I have taken the time to write my issue with the welds with each link I have attached, please take the time to have a look at them and tell me your thoughts. At this stage I am not happy to put the tank in the vehicle as I do not trust this welding to hold 200KG for a long time over a lot of corrugation and shitty roads and rough terrain.

this photo shows the weld is very fast along the angle mount, and the speed control is poor. you can also see the weld holding the flat plate to the side of the tank has absolutely no penetration to the tank.
The other thing I want to mention here is the use of a continual weld all the way around the mounting angle to the flat plate, as far as my knowledge goes, this is a bad idea for a load bearing mount, as if a crack starts, it just keeps running, whereas if this was stitched, and one weld cracked, it would not create an issue. please explain?
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... f.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again too fast and little penetration to the tank
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... f.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is ugly in several ways and maybe you can explain what has happened?
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... e.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

again too fast which equals not enough heat, the shape of the weld with the arrow like bead formation and high ridged form shows this
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... f.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is just ugly, can you explain what this is? It truly looks terrible and unprofessional
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... d.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 5.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 4.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can see these welds joining flat plate to the side of the tank are cold and fast with little penetration,
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 9.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 0.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 2.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this one is especially terrible seeings as it is used to hold the weight of the tank.
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 6.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you can see the height of this weld and how little penetration it has, very concerning.
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... d.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

just bad
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowlan ... 4.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers, Andy

And their less than satisfactory response.

Sorry Andy,
The guy who runs factory was away Friday, and since its been out of my mind.

I spoke to them today and we looked at pics.

1
The secondary plates are stitch welded onto the tank and then the mount is welded to them. We only have these on the heavier tanks (larger capacity) it allows a small amount of flex from chassis thru mount to tank sidewall.
It dissipates these stresses.
The mount does not directly contact tank, so long term leaks around the mounts dont happen.

2
The tanks are pressure tested at low and hi pressure after welding. Any leaks are then 'weld-off'.
When those leaks occur in the internal corners, there is no way to gring them down and weld again, just have to weld over the top.
I can see that it looks quite ugly, but there is no loss of strength there.... it was probably a piece of slag that released, creating a slow leak. The slow ones are the ones that take some effort to stop.

If you have any further concerns, please email.
BTW, factory guys start at 5am and finish around 11-11.30am, so I have to get them early, otherwise they are gone.

regards

now that was months ago, and nothing has really come of it yet,
so, to me,
whether the mount directly contacts the tank or not, continually welding it still makes it more likely to crank and fall off with 180L of fuel in it, and poor welding
welding over slag is a big no no. to grind it out, I cant see why you cant use a die grinder? I am a chippy and that's what I would have done??
and also, if you are patching a leak, with the right penetration, it should be sealed on the first pass, am I wrong?
anyone with any input would be great. I am happy to be corrected, or have some professional input.

Cheers guys!

Andy

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:33 pm**

I would have taken either the refund or the fitment of a replacement tank .

I wouldn't have bothered with a protracted discussion/battle particularly when you have ongoing concerns as to the structural integrity of the tank.

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:45 pm**

Sorry, I may not have made it clear, if I take the refund, they will take the tank back,
which leaves me with no tank. which is no good to me.
They were going to supply me with a replacement tank, but have most recently come back with

Hmm,
Our way of making tanks isn't going to change. I dont think we can make something you will be happy with.

so basically, our welding sucks, and you wont get a better job next time.

I am thinking my next avenue is to get it ground back and rewelded properly at their expense. But I dont think they will like that idea either...

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:14 pm**

love ke70 wrote:
They were going to supply me with a replacement tank

I take it that they have withdrawn that offer

love ke70 wrote: I am thinking my next avenue is to get it ground back and rewelded properly at their expense. But I dont think they will like that idea either...

I would think if you alter it in any way they will wipe their hands of it - and I reckon they could rightly do so.

You carrying out any work on their tank would be a perfect excuse to wipe their hands of it and you.

Maybe they are right in the statement that "Our way of making tanks isn't going to change. I dont think we can make something you will be happy with."

Maybe the issue isnt with the tank ? Sorry , but are your expectations unrealistic, at this point unless you were either a qualified welder or an Engineer or NDT tech if i was them I would probably give you a similar answer. At this stage your opinion , irrespective of the pictures is unsupported by expert opinion. Have you at least checked it out in comparison to another of their tanks , are the other examples the same ?

BTW - I have a long range tank from a well known manufacturer ,which looks very similar to your tank and has a very similar mounting fixture , and based on those pictures maybe I should take mine back also except that its been there for 180,00km which includes approx 25,000 kms offroad and its doing fine.

I have seen more than a weld or two in my time ( ex-NDT tech ) and some of the really ugly ones had nary an inclusion or flaw under Radiographic inspection. Can I suggest that if you really want to justify your claim offer ( at your cost) to have it tested by an independant NDT service who will confirm or negate your claims and concerns but I would strongly suggest that you not alter that tank in any way.

Cheers

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:38 pm**

Thanks Chris, Yes they have withdrawn the offer to supply a new tank as they dont think they can make something I am happy with.

I have no intention of doing anything with the tank until resolved with the supplier.

It may well go in there and never become an issue, but in a ute with no Aux tank, I would rather the welds look like they are going to hold the thing together, to atleast inspire some confidence. Having since viewed the photos on their website, some are not great, but 90% are definitely much better looking than mine.

I hear what you are saying about ugly welds, and no professional input at this point, but in your experience in NDT, to have to weld such a large section to stop a slow leak, is surely saying something is wrong with penetration?

and visually, is it not quite obvious that alot of that welding, including on the mounts, has little penetration into the base material? I dont know an Xray is needed to see that some of those welds are sitting on the surface of the steel, and have no bite into it?

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:50 pm**

If it doesnt leak then there is no issue as to penetration, it a visual perception without inspection. Note that i dont comment on the welds themselves. The result is the sum of the whole not any single weld

As I said, I have a very similar tank , and its the only tank for me. And it has similar looking welds

If I were you and I had, as you say, no confidence in the unit, I would take the money back and run

cheers

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:17 pm**

I am, at the end of the day, a chippie not someone qualified to make these judgements.
Hence this thread.
you seem to be implying the welding is acceptable?
or just fence sitting/invoking thought?

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:20 pm**

"If it doesnt leak then there is no issue as to penetration"
I do not agree with this, it could not leak, but fall off its mounts. or open up in 6 months time on a corrugated goat track
if welding to stop leaks was all that was needed to be a penetrating weld, then why would you have higher powers for thicker materials when you could put a lesser powered weld down which will do enough to stop a leak but not hold something together under force?

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:28 pm**

Ive seen worse welds holding a car together. If it doesn't leak, they honour the warranty INCLUDING any costs of recovery in the even of failure then whats the issue? I can guarantee that your car has welds that bad on it already.

If you want pretty welds done by a master craftsman then expect to pay a LOT for it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:53 pm**

I know, but I did those welds so its ok

no shit though, I could do a neater job with my 10 year old buggered gasless mig

If it came to it, what would the Xray testing cost chris?

If they honour the warranty is right. IF.
their service has been shit so far, no invoice, 8+ week production when quoted 4, no updates had to chase them up, no update when posted.
The whole thing has just been poor from the outset. Communication can fix problems, I am going a week between responses to emails, and phone calls are brushed away with promises to phone back that never happen.
If the service was good, I would be a bit more trusting.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:49 am**

love ke70 wrote: If it came to it, what would the Xray testing cost chris?
If the service was good, I would be a bit more trusting.

Hundreds if partial to well over the cost of the tank for a complete radiographic inspection. What will your engineers report cost or should it go to consumer mediation what is it going to cost you in time effort and money

Its why I suggested take the money and run, they seem to have met your consumer rights as well as telling you what they can / will do and also what they think is the problem - your expectations

Am I implying that they are fit for purpose given what i see and comparing what i see on my very similar tank , Yes.

You don't and therein seems to be the problem for you, not them.

Am I invoking thought , Yes , it is highly likely "fit for purpose"
and its probable that you would lose the arguement

Thats something that you may need to think about

cheers

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:27 am**

Interesting....

If i made a tank it'd be TIG welded.

Would i let that leave the shop? No
Would i be happy with that tank if i made it myself? No

BUT..

What was the tank worth? From a reputable shop or is it a cheaper tank?

Is it warranted?

Frankly i think the company has met it's fair obligations. It has offered to replace or refund. If after having offered that a customer came to me and said they wanted it remanufactured at my cost i'd tell them to go jump.

I once had a LR tank in my troopy. The quality of the tank was fine but the fill system was a total horses arse. In the end i just accepted that it was what it was and simply decided to never purchase from them again.

I might add that on an outside corner weld, Mig is rarely neat due to the weld process adding filler no matter what. It's also usually almost garanteed to have good penetration. On the lap welds it's hard to do a lap weld without nipping off the corners of the upper piece which adds to your filler pool resulting in a slightly cold weld. Normally on a lap weld i'll back off the feed rate a tiny bit to account for this even if it means getting a tiny bit of burn back. On a fillet weld with mig i'll crank that mofo up so i can burn right in to the root. I guess what i'm saying is that every weld requires different settings even if it's the same size parent material. Those welds look like someone has been a bit lazy setting up or changing settings which is what i'd expect from a "production line" mentality. But would it hold? Like voodoo said, go have a look at the factory welds on your chassis

M

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:36 am**

rock crawler, exactly my point, I would not weld it like that, so why should I except a professional job that is worse than I would except from myself in my backyard...

came from a reputable shop
$1200
NFI on warranty, I have never known a warranty to cover expenses beyond replacing the item, not a recovery from middle of nowhere.

they offered to refund, then offered to replace, then withdrew offer to replace.
I would happily take a replacement if the welding looked up to the task.

Cheers

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:56 am**

love ke70 wrote:rock crawler, exactly my point, I would not weld it like that, so why should I except a professional job that is worse than I would except from myself in my backyard...

There's "professional - being paid to do it" and "professional - craftsmen who do a job like money is no object". Rarely do the two coincide. No one services or works on my own car but me because i take time to make sure it's done right. I've seen some ham fisted mechanic's work done before with alarming regularity. Why? because it's production work.

I would happily take a replacement if the welding looked up to the task.

See above. If it's that concerning to you, take the money and run. And on the next tank demand to see pictures of the work beforehand or go visit the shop. You're VERY unlikely to get a change in their production methods.

Cheers

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:17 am**

you are not happy with the item, they offered you a refund... take the refund, build your own tank or buy one elsewhere.
This could have been resolved easily enough IMHO.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:48 am**

sometimes its nice to be able to buy something that just works though right?
I dont have the time to build my own, nor do I wish to try organising someone doing a one off for me.
No one else made one this size from what I could find..

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:44 am**

It is nice, but as you can see it's not the case this time round. I'm no welding guru so wont comment there but you questioned their workmanship with no profesional opinion or testing and they have offered a refund. They have also freely said that they cannot provide you with what you're after.
Why fight someone for something they cannot give?
Why do you insist on having a shitty tank that you don't trust and being $1200 out if pocket? You'll never be happy with what you get from them now.
So take the money (if you can still get it) and give it to someone who can give you what you want?

You can please everyone, some of the time.
You can please someone, every time.
But you'll never please everyone, everytime.
And then some people cannot be pleased at all...

And you are one of them.

If you can get the money, hand the tank back and never buy from them again.

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:33 pm**

the only reason they cant please me, if because they cant weld for shit...

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:49 pm**

love ke70 wrote:the only reason they cant please me, if because they cant weld for shit...

We know you think that way mate but can you prove it............well can ya ?

Because that, kind Sir, is the million dollar question .............

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:06 pm**

1200

look at the photos I provided,

then look at this

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/power-settings.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then tell me you still think the welds on the tank have full penetration and are strong enough for a very hard life under my truck.

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:27 pm**

love ke70 wrote:the only reason they cant please me, if because they cant weld for shit...

And they understand that you feel that way, and although you cannot prove it they have happily offered a refund and hope you do not purchase from them again.

love ke70 wrote:
chris_stoffa wrote:
love ke70 wrote:the only reason they cant please me, if because they cant weld for shit...
We know you think that way mate but can you prove it............well can ya ?

Because that, kind Sir, is the million dollar question .............
1200

look at the photos I provided,

then look at this

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/power-settings.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then tell me you still think the welds on the tank have full penetration and are strong enough for a very hard life under my truck.

So that's a no?

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:42 pm**

Canyonero 4x4 wrote: So that's a no?

That it would appear to be , although I may be mistaken or I may have misunderstood .

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:31 pm**

It is an appalling excuse for welding and should never have left their factory.

You should never (if you have) fitted it to your car.

You should have sent it back as soon as you saw it.

You should have accepted their offer of another, inspected it before taking it and that is that simple really.

For some reason you did not accept the offer of a replacement and for some reason they have decided you are a knob head they don't want to deal with.

If you get another offer fro a replacement or money back, take it.

unnastan

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:29 pm**

wether the welds are good enough or sub par is irrelevant at this point.

they offered you a refund, you didnt accept it

they offered a replacement tank, you didnt accept it, which they later withdrew the offer because they realised they cant please you.

IMO your a knob head, install the tank, or get a refund, and stop whining like a little bitch.

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:51 pm**

As a Boilermaker/Welder since the late 70's with welding certificates and welding inspection and welding supervision certificates I can give an honest appraisal and those welds are sh1t.
I would never ever let a job leave looking like that.
That being said you should have accepted your money back and bought a tank from a different supplier. It would be next to impossible to easily make that tank look at least someway visually acceptable.
Regards Andrew.

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:43 pm**

chris_stoffa wrote:
Canyonero 4x4 wrote: So that's a no?
That it would appear to be , although I may be mistaken or I may have misunderstood .

Are you always a pompous dick, or are you just turning it on in this thread for some reason?
come down from your high horse and make a constructive contribution, instead of fence sitting, speculating and antagonising for no reason.

Struth wrote:It is an appalling excuse for welding and should never have left their factory.

You should never (if you have) fitted it to your car.

You should have sent it back as soon as you saw it.

You should have accepted their offer of another, inspected it before taking it and that is that simple really.

For some reason you did not accept the offer of a replacement and for some reason they have decided you are a knob head they don't want to deal with.

If you get another offer fro a replacement or money back, take it.

unnastan

I have not fitted the tank, as soon as I opened it I was not happy with the welding, a couple of days later I re-assessed it and decided it was in fact worse than my original opinion, and contacts the seller about the issues.

To accept their offer of another, I would have had to have them freight this tank back to them, and then freight the new tank to me. at a cost of $100 each way, I decided to try and open a dialogue with them, in which both the seller and myself could come to an understanding of expectations vs what they can provide. So forgive me for not being able to walk into their factory, but it is infact, not as simple as you make it out to be.
That is the reason I did not straight up accept the offer a replacement, I actually wanted to know what I was getting was going to be the quality I wanted, I dont know how that makes me a knob head???????
The knob head thing to do would have been to cost the seller another $200 in freight to get me a replacement tank here, and then find I am still not happy, so another 100 to send that one back to.

They withdrew the offer of a replacement when they said their manufacturing quality would not improve. This tank is as far as they are concerned, just as good as any other that leaves their shop. which amazes me.

The offer of a refund has always been available, and was never withdrawn.

Shadow wrote:wether the welds are good enough or sub par is irrelevant at this point.

they offered you a refund, you didnt accept it

they offered a replacement tank, you didnt accept it, which they later withdrew the offer because they realised they cant please you.

IMO your a knob head, install the tank, or get a refund, and stop whining like a little bitch.

The welds being good enough or not is not irrelevant. I came on here to ask the question of those more knowledgeable than me, to find out if my opinion was warranted or not as to the welds capability to do the job they are intended to do. So that is what I am asking, not whether I should or should not have taken the refund at the first available moment, I want the tank, I dont want the crappy welds. A refund doesnt fix my issue, so I pursued the avenue of a replacement, which they withdrew BECAUSE THEIR QUALITY WONT IMPROVE. Not because I cannot be pleased. If they weld it neat and sound, I would never have complained in the first place. I asked them to weld the next one professionally, which is when they said they could not do any better than what they have, so a replacement would be pointless.

I declined the offer of a refund originally as I still want a Long range tank, and this one best suits my requirements, minus the manufacturing issues.

How am I, as a customer, with a sub par tank, a knob head, for
A, dealing with the seller via email and phone call instead of just getting a replacement freighted to me to save the seller money
B, coming onto this forum to ask people with more knowledge than me whether I am deluded or not as to what I should be expecting.

and how the fuck am I whining like a little bitch?
I asked a fucking question, and I have been ridiculed and antagonised, because a seller did a shit job somehow I end up being the one in the wrong? I fucking love outers...

awill4x4 wrote:As a Boilermaker/Welder since the late 70's with welding certificates and welding inspection and welding supervision certificates I can give an honest appraisal and those welds are sh1t.
I would never ever let a job leave looking like that.
That being said you should have accepted your money back and bought a tank from a different supplier. It would be next to impossible to easily make that tank look at least someway visually acceptable.
Regards Andrew.

Thankyou, finally someone with some qualification in the area!
If you were assessing the tank, would you be happy to put it in a car, or should I truly be sending it back? If its ugly, I dont really care, its the fact the welds do not look strong enough to do their job that bothers me.
The offer of a refund has never been withdrawn, and if in your professional opinion you think I should not be using it, I will send it back and get my refund. I will have to look into other suppliers, and what they can offer. It is very unfortunate, as this is the largest capacity tank I could find for the location.

Cheers, Andy

Posted: **Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:37 pm**

love ke70 wrote:
chris_stoffa wrote:
Canyonero 4x4 wrote: So that's a no?
That it would appear to be , although I may be mistaken or I may have misunderstood .
Are you always a pompous dick, or are you just turning it on in this thread for some reason?
come down from your high horse and make a constructive contribution, instead of fence sitting, speculating and antagonising for no reason.

Ahh, so I'm a pompous dick, not one insult or derogatory term from me and I even offer you an opinion which it would appear now you obviously don't like , despite you having actually thanked me for it , and you have the temerity to call me a pompous dick . Hmmmmm..............

A couple of others tell it how it seems and you get your nose out of joint............ This is Outers , come on, don't dabble in the pool if you cant stand being splashed a little, or do you just want to take your tank and go play in a little sand pit elsewhere to get the answers that will sooth your bruised ego and moral indignation of a purchase that has gone arse up

So what is it you really want , Sympathy because you can't make a decision or exercise your consumer rights ?

( Sympathy on Outers ????????? Really FFS !

- you get opinions here that you may not like , haven't you noticed that yet ? )

.........Ok then , look between shit and syphilis in the dictionary. Now I know, I'll try harder next time if you like

So isn't this really why you love Outers, as you said ......... go on admit it

Interesting that you now tell the rest of the story.

BTW, Am I really antagonizing you or turning it on just for you ............. nah, I wouldn't bother

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:01 am**

love ke70 wrote:
chris_stoffa wrote:
Canyonero 4x4 wrote: So that's a no?
That it would appear to be , although I may be mistaken or I may have misunderstood .
Are you always a pompous dick, or are you just turning it on in this thread for some reason?
come down from your high horse and make a constructive contribution, instead of fence sitting, speculating and antagonising for no reason.
He was being quite helpful at first, but you don't seem to be happy with the responses you're getting, and you're beggining to look like a fool.
Struth wrote:It is an appalling excuse for welding and should never have left their factory.

You should never (if you have) fitted it to your car.

You should have sent it back as soon as you saw it.

You should have accepted their offer of another, inspected it before taking it and that is that simple really.

For some reason you did not accept the offer of a replacement and for some reason they have decided you are a knob head they don't want to deal with.

If you get another offer fro a replacement or money back, take it.

unnastan
I have not fitted the tank, as soon as I opened it I was not happy with the welding, a couple of days later I re-assessed it and decided it was in fact worse than my original opinion, and contacts the seller about the issues.

To accept their offer of another, I would have had to have them freight this tank back to them, and then freight the new tank to me. at a cost of $100 each way, I decided to try and open a dialogue with them, in which both the seller and myself could come to an understanding of expectations vs what they can provide. So forgive me for not being able to walk into their factory, but it is infact, not as simple as you make it out to be.
That is the reason I did not straight up accept the offer a replacement, I actually wanted to know what I was getting was going to be the quality I wanted, I dont know how that makes me a knob head??????? Because they told you that they could not offer a tank welded to your standard, offered a full refund and you're still carrying on. You could have bought a new tank elsewhere by now, fitted it and be halfway accross the country with a long range tank.
The knob head thing to do would have been to cost the seller another $200 in freight to get me a replacement tank here, and then find I am still not happy, so another 100 to send that one back to. Who gives a toss. They made the offer, let them worry about the cost. They sent you a shit product, they wear the cost. Fuck trying to save then money, they screwed you around.

They withdrew the offer of a replacement when they said their manufacturing quality would not improve. This tank is as far as they are concerned, just as good as any other that leaves their shop. which amazes me. So they make shit tanks. Accept the refund and move on.
The offer of a refund has always been available, and was never withdrawn.

Shadow wrote:wether the welds are good enough or sub par is irrelevant at this point.

they offered you a refund, you didnt accept it

they offered a replacement tank, you didnt accept it, which they later withdrew the offer because they realised they cant please you.

IMO your a knob head, install the tank, or get a refund, and stop whining like a little bitch.

The welds being good enough or not is not irrelevant. I came on here to ask the question of those more knowledgeable than me, to find out if my opinion was warranted or not as to the welds capability to do the job they are intended to do. So that is what I am asking, not whether I should or should not have taken the refund at the first available moment, I want the tank, I dont want the crappy welds. A refund doesnt fix my issue, so I pursued the avenue of a replacement, which they withdrew BECAUSE THEIR QUALITY WONT IMPROVE. Not because I cannot be pleased. If they weld it neat and sound, I would never have complained in the first place. I asked them to weld the next one professionally, which is when they said they could not do any better than what they have, so a replacement would be pointless.That tank, from that supplier comes with shit welds. You either accept it and stick it in your truck, or send it back and get a refund.

I declined the offer of a refund originally as I still want a Long range tank, and this one best suits my requirements, minus the manufacturing issues.

How am I, as a customer, with a sub par tank, a knob head, for
A, dealing with the seller via email and phone call instead of just getting a replacement freighted to me to save the seller money
B, coming onto this forum to ask people with more knowledge than me whether I am deluded or not as to what I should be expecting.

and how the fuck am I whining like a little bitch?
I asked a fucking question, and I have been ridiculed and antagonised, because a seller did a shit job somehow I end up being the one in the wrong? I fucking love outers...Because you are in the wrong. You didn't accept any of the fair offers made by the manufacturer. This doesn't mean they are right. We agree the workmanship is rubbish, but there is fault on both sides.

awill4x4 wrote:As a Boilermaker/Welder since the late 70's with welding certificates and welding inspection and welding supervision certificates I can give an honest appraisal and those welds are sh1t.
I would never ever let a job leave looking like that.
That being said you should have accepted your money back and bought a tank from a different supplier. It would be next to impossible to easily make that tank look at least someway visually acceptable.
Regards Andrew.
Thankyou, finally someone with some qualification in the area!
If you were assessing the tank, would you be happy to put it in a car, or should I truly be sending it back? If its ugly, I dont really care, its the fact the welds do not look strong enough to do their job that bothers me. Then I think you know the answer already. You're not happy with the welds, and no-one is saying that their great. Perhaps it's just me, but if it's my truck and I don't trust something there's no way I'll use it regardless of what some clown on a fourm says.
The offer of a refund has never been withdrawn, and if in your professional opinion you think I should not be using it, I will send it back and get my refund. I will have to look into other suppliers, and what they can offer. It is very unfortunate, as this is the largest capacity tank I could find for the location.

Cheers, Andy

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:25 pm**

This reminds me of the thread with a dude asking 'should I use tough dog shocks or something else'
Outers - 'tough dogs are shit, here's loads and loads of examples why, and some good quality alternatives'

OP - 'I just ordered TDs'

Some people wont be told what they don't want to hear.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:02 pm**

has anyone actually said the welding is up to the task though delirious?

canyonero, I will answer in order

He was never helpful in answering the question I asked. which is, is this welding up to the task or not, instead he said, take your money back, but I have one that looks similar that I have had for a while. thats ambiguous...

You make it out as if the seller was helpful right from day 1, the offer of a refund took some time, and then the offer a replacement was forthcoming, it was only a week or 2 ago, ie 1 or 2 emails, that they said they could not weld any better than they have, so would not offer a replacement anymore. Which is why I came here to ask if the welding was good enough. which so far, very few people in this thread have touched on.

Yes, they screwed me around, its more a screw around if I have to go through the same thing twice. Thats obvious isnt it? hence getting the answers via email rather than sending one back, getting another, finding its shit too, taking more photos, sending even more emails having a tougher issue now because the seller is now another 200 out of pocket etc etc

That is what I am asking, is the tank shit, or is it fit for the purpose? Answer the question or fuck off.

Again, the welds are shit, but are they going to do the job or not?

I have not refused their offers, I have explored my options as a consumer. So the workmanship is rubbish, but is it likely to fail or should I just run with it?

I brought the question to outers to confirm or dispel my concerns before I did send it back, there are plenty of people on this forum that are not clowns, a few have seemed to congregate here though..

Chris stoffa,

so after offering your opinion as a NDT tech, but not as someone who can weld, you commented on the quality of the weld, but not its ability to do its job, at no point did you address the actual questions I asked.
You then continued to reply again and again with comments unrelated to what I asked, and acted as though I had said things as truth, when in fact I was asking if my beliefs were right or not.

I have actually recieved very little in opinions on the question I asked relating to the tank, the welds and its ability to do what I want it to do and more about what I should have done and my personality traits for not doing that.

tell the rest of what story?

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