Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am thinking of trading my old patrol,and getting a new defender. Are they as bad as people say? has quality improved? I want to set it up as a long distance tourer, but want some think that is reliable. the price seems good and rear sliding windows for the dog (not like the new gu patrol) Is the diesel donk and gearbox strong and reliable ? Don't want to be in the middle of the simpson and calling landrover road side assist. Any help would be appreciated got to be better than the 4x4 mags are saying and my old series 3. thanks

Reliability is probably not much different than other makes.

Unfortuneately, there have been a lot of downgrades through the years though. I think the view you would get here is your best bet is to find an older 110 with the Isuzu diesel and the 5 speed (LT85) gear box. I think that is 1986 to 1990 model years. Put the extra money you saved into getting everything overhauled so it is in perfect mechanical condition. You'll then have a great, reliable touring vehicle that can be field maintained.

You'd be very unlucky to have any serious problems with a new one.

Quality Control is reputedly the best its ever been since Ford came in. OK, some panel gaps have to be seen to be believed, but they are now reliable. There are Td5 Defenders all over Australia touring around doing what Landrovers do best.

Sure, some specs have been downgraded over the years. But theres nothing to suggest owners won't get normal service lives out of new Defenders under normal usage.

The TD5 engine is a good'un. Apart from one oil leak in the harness issue in the early days, its not giving problems. The R380 gearbox is a reliable unit. 5th gear is apparently stronger than any gearbox before. Again, the initial problems were sorted years ago. The clutch is a huge improvement over the tdi's -they were way too small. Diffs are fine for normal use. Yes you can break them rockhopping, but not normal use.

Mines 7th months old now 22,000 kms. No issues. The only warranty claim has been a passenger mirror that blew over at 120 kph. I'd have no hesitation in taking it anywhere in Australia tomorrow.

Known probelms that I have been told to watch for are front springs/shocks sag after a while, rear discs can need replacing at 40,000,

What you see is what you get in a Defender. Don't expect electric mirrors, or slickchanging gearboxes, airbags or Prado type gadgets. Do expect it to drive like a truck, air conditioning that freezes the knees, and waves from other defender drivers. And a td5 goes harder than any before it.

Test drive it. See if you can live with it. Its a car that you either love or hate.

Regards
Max P

Sicgq, I have one of the first 2002 upgrade model Defenders but still with Salisbury diffs. Done 76,000km and have only been back to the dealer for an ABS recall. It's been serviced every 10,000km by a non dealer Land Rover specialist and has performed faultlessly. It is fitted with Aerotech seats and a chip/intercooler upgrade which have enhanced the driveability enormously. The only thing I can winge about is the aircond. The build is much better than earlier models. They might be basic boxes but make up for this in utility, and outperform any other factory 4WD in the real stuff.(Even 4WD Monthly agrees with this)

Apart from some early problems that Max spoke about and the pre April 2000 Td5's having plastic head dowels which manifest problems in the 80,000 to 100,000 km range, these motors have been pretty dependable. Expect about 25mpg, or perhaps a little better. I'm biased but they deserve a good look. Best of luck. Barry

For a long distance tourer, I don't think you would have any real problems.

Being a modern diesel with a high pressure injection system, fuel cleanliness is even more critical.

And if you intend to install a HF transceiver you probably won't be able to use it with the engine running due to interference (this is a common problem with common rail injection systems).

TD5 isnt common rail (I thought)....
Its actually a EUI system, still electrically noisy though

Team Raider wrote:TD5 isnt common rail (I thought)....
Its actually a EUI system, still electrically noisy though

Some might say TD5 is common rail, however I'm not convinced (one way or the other).

The message I wanted to get out is that the TD5 is electrically noisey (because of the engine management system and the high pressure electrical fuel pump) as are all common rail diesels in the modern 4x4's.

The TD5 is as reliable as any other 4wd on the market, The build quality is not fantastic and the ergonomics deplorable, but if you can live with it and more impotantly your front passenger can then they are a great 4wd with plenty of room. Mine has done 81k and is performing faultlessly. I am in the process of fitting roller drawers, cargo barrier and roof console. I will be taking up the flooring vinyl and will be laying a decent layer of sound deadening materila as there is a fair amount of cabin noise. Also make sure you use sound deadening paint under the guards as the sound of stones hitting the under guards is fairly loud and can be a bit disconcerting at times. As for fitting a radio mainly HF make a roof shelf and mount the reciever box in the rear and the aerial at the back of the vehicle, use some sort of insulating wrap around the cables or a good insulated cable and the injector noise should not be a problem. As far as breaking down goes if you have LR assist and keep renewing it breaking down is not a problem as they have to recover you from anywhere.

LRDEF110 wrote:Sicgq, I have one of the first 2002 upgrade model Defenders but still with Salisbury diffs. Done 76,000km and have only been back to the dealer for an ABS recall. It's been serviced every 10,000km by a non dealer Land Rover specialist and has performed faultlessly. It is fitted with Aerotech seats and a chip/intercooler upgrade which have enhanced the driveability enormously. The only thing I can winge about is the aircond. The build is much better than earlier models. They might be basic boxes but make up for this in utility, and outperform any other factory 4WD in the real stuff.(Even 4WD Monthly agrees with this)

Apart from some early problems that Max spoke about and the pre April 2000 Td5's having plastic head dowels which manifest problems in the 80,000 to 100,000 km range, these motors have been pretty dependable. Expect about 25mpg, or perhaps a little better. I'm biased but they deserve a good look. Best of luck. Barry

Were did you get your chip/intercooler upgrade from Barry.

Teddy I have a Bruce Davis chip upgrade and I got the intercooler from Mike (Roverworks) in SA. I'm in Central Qld and the upgraded intercooler really makes a difference up here. I think Mike had a couple of intercoolers made to a special order and I'm not sure they are commercially available.

Regards, Barry.

LRDEF110 wrote:Teddy I have a Bruce Davis chip upgrade and I got the intercooler from Mike (Roverworks) in SA. I'm in Central Qld and the upgraded intercooler really makes a difference up here. I think Mike had a couple of intercoolers made to a special order and I'm not sure they are commercially available.

Regards, Barry.

Barry, I have the Bruce Davis Chip also fitted. Not bad is it, really makes the truck get up and go. I think the only problem is the smoke you get when you really give it some right boot. Do you find the larger intercooler fixes some of the smoke and how is the driveability/reliability of the truck with the intercooler? I was thinking of get a larger intercooler but was a little worried about putting to much power out of what is really only a small engine. That and how is the drive train going to take the extra power?

don't forget that the R380 is called that due to the 380Nm of torque it can supposedly handle

Teddy, the replacement intercooler is essentially the same size as the original but of a substantially superior more open design that breaths a lot better. I've done about 50,000km with it and the chip fitted, but did get Bruce Davis to reconfigure the chip to provide more torque down the bottom than up top because it used to stall out too much. It used to smoke a fair bit at first but seems to have settled down now. The real difference is going up hills and from 1800 to 2500 rpm where it really shines. Have not had any clutch or drivetrain problems so far but I do have a spare R380 gearbox at the moment as I sold the 300TDi engine out of my 110 ute to replacing it with a 1998 3.9 V8 and auto.

Mike Hayes was the bloke who had the intercoolers made. He has one in his 'Tombraider' Defender with a higher performance chip than mine, I think he is running at over 170 kw.

Regards, Barry.

I would get one as a tourer (just because i like rovers) but be warned about how good people's knowledge is of LR's where they are not mainstream(?) in the area..
friend had to get their 130 sent from NT to BNE on the back of a truck after breaking down somewhere around katherine. get this - the mechanics he saw at darwin couldn't diagnose a bad alternator. ruined a good trip around oz after being told the motor's "ceased".

too much and not enough from the mechanics

I might have to give Bruce a ring and see if he can reconfigure mine if I send it up to him. How much did it cost to get it reconfigured Barry.

To be honest Teddy, I can't remember, but I think I just had to pay the cost to get it down and back. It would stall at the hint of an incline at low revs and was pretty useless offroad. It's much better now but still not as good as a 300TDi way down low in the rev range. Just have to keep the revs up a bit or watch the gears.

Regards, Barry

Hi Barry.
I gave Tony a ring at Davis Performance Landy and there is a upgrade out in about 4 weeks. I'll give him a ring them and arrange to get the upgraded ECU upgraded. Thanks for all your help mate.