Outer Limits 4x4 Board

A few quick Qs for u volvo portal blokes.

What size rim do u run?
iv been trying to read the side of the tyres in a few of your pics, 16s? can i fit 15s? I have just brought 37mtr and 35 ET2 in 15" rims so if they wont fit it pushes my little project back a few years
Any thing that i can change to run 15s?

The width of the axles? i rember reading it some where but i cant find it again

Does any one have any pics of the pinion housing? want to know how long it is.

Iv read that there biggest prob is the vacume locker and u can get cable kits for them? What $$

How much (rough price) are a front and rear going tho cost me? Wheres the best place to buy them or find out more about them? I live in WA

People have said that the rear off a 4x4 is better than the very rear off a 6x6, why and how can i tell the dif?

They no longer make them so what are spares like?

They have drums all round but these are really good? Whats a set of brakes worth?

The truck they come off run 35s stock? what is the max tyre size u think they can handle? they will be going on a TJ wrangler (130kw engine and 1700kg in weight)

Iv got all my info from this site and a little off pirate any other good sites or wright ups?

Just trying to find out what im in for and find out a rough $$ value

Thanks alot.

try the search
look for volvo under rover
look for volvo under other makes
these two will answer all your questions
david

jeep97tj wrote:What size rim do u run?
iv been trying to read the side of the tyres in a few of your pics, 16s? can i fit 15s? I have just brought 37mtr and 35 ET2 in 15" rims so if they wont fit it pushes my little project back a few years
Any thing that i can change to run 15s?

it's possible to run 15s but you will need to machine the lip on the drum down a bit and run more offset rims than stock (16x9" full backspacing). you'd be better off selling your tyres and getting 16s, as you would need to make custom rims to suit the stud pattern anyway. if you were to make custom rims, you might as well go with 17" and get some real tyres.

jeep97tj wrote:The width of the axles? i rember reading it some where but i cant find it again

front diff is ~1760mm WMS

jeep97tj wrote:Does any one have any pics of the pinion housing? want to know how long it is.

i can measure this for you next week. it's not too long but i guess in a TJ it's a big issue.

jeep97tj wrote:Iv read that there biggest prob is the vacume locker and u can get cable kits for them? What $$

i don't know if there are actual kits available. i think people tend to cobble something together. you would be better off using a double action range rover vaccuum servo. the problem with the stock vaccuum servo is the way that it seals with 3 j-bolts.

jeep97tj wrote:How much (rough price) are a front and rear going tho cost me? Wheres the best place to buy them or find out more about them? I live in WA

2 years ago they cost about AU$3000 a set from the wreckers in malaysia (without shipping). they have gone up since they got into fashion. i know there are complete c303s in australia but i doubt you'd be able to buy the axles out of them. best bet is to look up landyshah and see what the current going price is.

jeep97tj wrote:People have said that the rear off a 4x4 is better than the very rear off a 6x6, why and how can i tell the dif?

i would think this is to do with the diff offset more than anything else. the rear of a 6x6 is close to centre where as the others are more offset to the drivers side. i would think a centred diff would be better in a jeep.

jeep97tj wrote:They no longer make them so what are spares like?

the only spare that is difficult to obtain is the CV boot. i do have a part number for them if you can find someone in sweden to order them direct from volvo. other than that, the bearings and seals can be replaced with land rover items with a bit of work.

jeep97tj wrote:They have drums all round but these are really good? Whats a set of brakes worth?

i don't know first hand how good the brakes are but if they can stop a military truck that weighs a lot more than your TJ, i think they will be quite sufficient. contact xtremeaxle for wilwood disc brakes. make sure you're sitting down!

jeep97tj wrote:The truck they come off run 35s stock? what is the max tyre size u think they can handle? they will be going on a TJ wrangler (130kw engine and 1700kg in weight)

they'll run 52s easily! try it and see!

jeep97tj wrote:Iv got all my info from this site and a little off pirate any other good sites or wright ups?

search harder because most of the info i've just given is freely available already. if you can't find that, how do you suppose you'll track down the axles themselves. no offence intended. anyway, i answered the questions so that they would be all here in one place.

jeep97tj wrote:Just trying to find out what im in for and find out a rough $$ value

you are up for at least $5000 to get a pair in your hands. add $2000-3000 for getting them up to scratch and suspension bracketry.

if you're happy just to run your 37" mtrs and 35" ets, upgrade to a d44 with after market stuff or flip a GU diff. you'll spend less money.

anyway, best of luck!

nam

modman
I did a search thats how i came up with my specific Qs, but its takes sooo long as i live in the bush with a dial up speed of 31 200 bps.

Thanks alot N A M
The reason i want to fit 15 is the tyres are only a couble of months old and i want to use them 2 save money then when they wear out or i get bored again i will go bigger. For 90% of the tracks i do i dont need bigger tyres, i just enjoy working and building the jeep,its my hobby, but i can always find harder tracks.

I did like the look of that short camo defender on volvos with the simexs on the back and tsl of Q78s on the front what year and model is it, may be i should build one of them.

Thanks Shane

That's not a defender, that is a series IIA Landie, 1960's vintage, with about a million mods and home made portals, not volvo's. It belongs to Bill (daddylonglegs).

Shane, you do not say which country you live in. If its Australia then the axle width is irrelevant. what is relevant is the track width and that is
60.5 inches which means that you can legally go to 62.5 inches. this is only 2.5 inches wider than a TJ Jeep but the portals will raise your vehicle
4.5 inches so to maintain stability you should attempt to lower the suspension. Fortunately the TJ is ideal for this conversion because the chassis rails have very high arches over the axle.
The pinion is not very long. about the same length as a RangeRover.
If you want to retain your original transfercase with left hand front offset you must turn the Volvo front axle housing upside down, swap the knuckles left to right (they bolt on, so no worries there} bolt the diff centre back in the correct way up ( it bolts in either way around } swap the difflock dog clutch to the other side of the carrier { it also is designed to be fitted either side} and drill a new hole in the axle housing for the difflock bell crank. The more centred rear axle from the 6x6 would suit the TJ better but because the Volvo has a higher pinion than the jeep and because you lower the suspension, drive line angles wont be that severe so the offset rear end should be manageable also.
I think NAM made a TYPO because there is no way I would even think of running 52 inch diameter tyre with them. 40''s about max with reasonable reliability. Brakes are identical to series 2a or 3 6 or 8 cylinder LandRover. They are quite long lived but not too exciting, however they are good enough to pass the stopping and fade tests that are required for engineering approval in Australia.

Bill.

Thanks Bill this project is looking better all the time with the higher pinion and longer wheel base i might no even neen a CV drive shaft which saves me another $1000. now i just have to find the axles.

I live in Western Australia

Thanks alot

Can some one tell me the off set of the front pinion (from the center of the diff to the center of the pinion), i need to no because the front drive shaft runs close to the side of the engine and tran. The D30 is about 9".

Thanks Shane

i'll take some measurements for you this weekend

Thanks NAM also which way do the pinions turn during drive? is it rovers that the front and rear drive shafts turn different ways, or have i lost the plot i think i read it in a 4x4 mag.

It is merc G-wagens that have the front turn in reverse. Almost all other 4x4's have both turning the same way.

While you are measuring the offset Nam, check to see if the pinion shaft is in the centre of the diff left to right, because when the diff is bolted into the banjo housing upside down, the pinion offset may change. It does on Rovers because the pinion is offcentre.
BTW Nam, do you still have your Volvos?

Bill.

the flange may or may not be offset. it was hard to measure.

Thanks alot NAM

Hi,

a couple of things:

- volvo stock rim is 16"*7.5" (at least the ones I have, several sets)
- 15" rims can be used with less backspacing (my *guess* is 2" each side?)
- xtremeaxle suggested using 17" custom rims with their willwood disc brakes, I ended up using stock brakes (drums suck!) and rims, the total cost of disc brakes (brakes, rims, tyres) was just too high to me
- 2-axle (c303) axle gearing (diff*portal) is 1:5.99, 3-axle is 1:7 or something
- 3-axle might have stonger diffs (4 small gear)
- 3-axle rear diffs are quite close to centrum, only a little bit to the passenger side
- track width is 61" (with stock rims, based on http://www.real4x4.com/303specs.shtml matches quite closely with my own measurements)
- volvo portals cam take 39" boggers and ~400hp without a big risk of beaking (light race truck)
- I have Q78-16 tsl's (~36") o a stock 3.5 rangie efi, it's 2200kg empty (i.e. add ~300kg for spare tyre and parts, tools etc. for events) and I don't think I'll ever break anything (from the axles anyway... :-)
- local volvo shop here (Oulu, Finland) is happy to provide spare pats, CV boot is ~90 euros and they can have it the next morning from the order
- I burned outer pinion bearing from the front diff, the bearing and the seal were ~70 euros (IMHO quire reasonable), delivered within 24 hours

Here http://stiletti.wipsl.com/gallery/album76 are a few pics of the axles.

In this http://stiletti.wipsl.com/albums/album8 ... .sized.jpg and this http://stiletti.wipsl.com/albums/album8 ... .sized.jpg picture you can see the pinion length, it's quite close to rangie one, I run stock rangie propshafts front and rear, and the wheelbase is no more than one inch more than the original 100", I wanted to move the rear axle backwards to be able to fit bigger tyres easier, it's 4-door and the rear doors are not-so-easy to adjust. The Finnish regulations allow max. 1" wheel base change, the rear propshaft "slide" is maybe 3/4" more open than it was with stock axles.

I have not had any problems with the vacuum lockers, I have magnetic switches, it't very easy to use and also easier to install than the original volvo mechanical vacuum switches.

And this http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/showg ... &ppuser=35 link has also some good pics about volvo axles, also some "explosion" pics, e.g. http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/data/ ... 03-med.jpg that shows the "weaker" diff from the 2-axle c303.

-Paavo

It looks like the Volvo fronts have about 3.5 inches less offset than your D30 Shane. Is that too much ? The pinion appears to be dead central left to right, up and down.
Paavo, I have never seen a heavy duty 6x6 4 pinion diff. any photos ?
Bill.

Nar it wont fit Bill , I will have to get a price on shorting the short tube and axle by about 4" and shorten the long tube and axle on the rear diff by the same amount, bummer.

Does any one have a rough price on shorting axles?

Thanks for the info and links ptl, i was planning on discs but that will wait now, until the 15" tyres wear out.

mmmm decisions

Shane, a mate of mine is fitting Volvo's to a RangeRover Chassied CJ7 .
{right hand drop}He encountered similar front propshaft clearance problems with the gearbox bell housing. The problem was overcome by making a 2 piece front propshaft with centre support bearing as fitted to the rear propshaft on some Hiluxes. Volvo axle shafts cannot be shortened because the diameter of the shaft between the inner and outer splines is reduced to below the root diameter of the splines.

Bill.

Hi,

> heavy duty 6x6 4 pinion diff. any photos ?

Hmm.... <goes looking>... <googles> found this:

http://stiletti.wipsl.com/~ptl/Volvo_man_p1.jpg

See upper lefthand corner.

-Paavo

Thanks Bill

Does your mate have any pics of his front set up? did he have to mod his engine sump?

Thanks Shane

Paavo, do you know if the 6x6 centers swap inte the 4x4 axles? The 6x6 axles are considered less desirable, and hence cheaper. There may be some economy in getting them for just the centers. I guess you want the R&P to swap as well, but do they fit on the beefier centers?

No photos yet Shane, one weekend I will borrow a digital camera and take a million pics for this forum. The Jeep has a 340 Chrysler v8 with a very large bell housing, neither this or the sump were modified. The front drive shaft angled out from the transfercase to the centre bearing beside the chassis rail, missing all the obstructions, the other drive shaft then angled back in from the centre bearing to the Volvo front diff. I have also recently seen this done on a MQ Nissan Patrol with 350 Chev V8 and Turbo350 Auto. The two piece propshaft was necessary to clear the auto trans oil pan.

Bill.

Hi,

wilsby wrote:Paavo, do you know if the 6x6 centers swap inte the 4x4 axles? The 6x6 axles are considered less desirable, and hence cheaper. There may be some economy in getting them for just the centers. I guess you want the R&P to swap as well, but do they fit on the beefier centers?

I guess 6x6 diffs fit into 4x4 axle housings (R&P need to swap), I've been trying to locate dirt cheap 6x6 axles for spare parts, drive shafts are naturally of different length at least in the rear axles, but the portal gears, bearings, diff & brake parts should be the same. Or so I've been told, so I cannot say this is a fact. Not sure of the front rear axle output to rear rear axle needs some mods, but the need for spare parts with these axles should not be that big, so I don't have any spares yet. One guy is making CV's, I ordered one for spare, and going to get two spare CV boots soon hopefully, and then I want tie and steering rod ends and maybe brake shoes and thats it, all spare parts I ever (?) need. Plus a lot of GL5 oil, I have 6l in front and 4-5l in rear, going to be interesting when the temp goes below -20C.

-Paavo

So what are the differences between the 6x6 axles and 4x4. I understand:

6x6 has 4-pin diff

6x6 has lower ratio - 7.?:1 ???

6x6 has rear diff(s) closer to centre or centred? what about the front?

Hi,

ISUZUROVER wrote:So what are the differences between the 6x6 axles and 4x4. I understand:

6x6 has 4-pin diff

6x6 has lower ratio - 7.?:1 ???

6x6 has rear diff(s) closer to centre or centred?

Yep. I think it's 7.05:1 or 7.56:1, maybe wilsby knows better?

what about the front?

Don't know, when I was looking for volvo axles I was fixed to 4x4 because of the gearing, even 1:5.99 sounded like a lot after 1:3.54, but it's actually *very* good with ~36" tyres. In case you have bigger tyres and/or not too much highway kilometers, I would not be too afraid of 6x6 gearing.

Don't remember the exact number, but I think it is close to 7:1.

Paavo, where do you get your CV's? Are they based on the old Rangie model or outright new CV's?

NAM did u get around to measuring the pinion lenght??

Hi,

> where do you get your CV's? Are they based on the old Rangie model or outright new CV's?

Made from something, I guess it's some LR CV, I only know the competition gyus (lots of power + 39" boggers) use those so it must be good enough for me. In case some1 needs CV's for volvo portals, e-mail me (paavo.leinonen@wipsl.TakeThisPartAway.com) and I can link you to the guy who makes those.

Not sure if original CV's are available from Volvo? Price might be high, though.

-Paavo

Hi,

> the pinion lenght??

It's very close (within 1cm I think, within 1" for sure) to range rover.

-Paavo

OneMoreThing, here are some pics of C303 & C306, the 3-axle truck did not have bed so the rear axles were well visible:

http://stiletti.wipsl.com/gallery/album36

There were 3 C303's, the "newest" had 4000km (!), the older ones around 10000km, price was 4000e for the whole truck but that was a year ago...

-Paavo