Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi

seems recently my 2H has developed a high oil pressure :S

it idles on the high mark and at running is actually above the H mark :/

i did a bit of searching and came up with this

- Member - DOZER replied to the question
-
-
- Hi common problem with these motors is high oil pressure caused from
- a siezed main relief valve. If this is the case, get it fixed b4 it blows off
- the filter. Andrew
- wheredayathinkwer mike?

think this is Dow5er on these forums based on his pic

if this is the case, how does one go about fixing it, and is there anything else that could be wrong?

ok so it looks like this is the problem

has anyone replaced the plunger and spring before

looks like it can be done fairly easily, pretty accessable from underneath, may need to move power steer pump out of the way

is it likely to be fixed by replacing the plunger and spring?

should i get in there with wet and dry around a pencil (as one guy mentioned on exploreoz)

could this cause any damage to the engine, driving with high pressure?

if the filter blows and engine cuts out will any damage be done,

looking at doing this tomorrow morning or night if i can get the part....

Gday
You are rite im thesame person...to take the gauge and sender out of the equasion, get the oil pressure tested. If you are close, i can lend you a gauge and hose. Should not be more than 90 cold and 60 hot is good. But check in the specs b4 taking that as gospel.
Your motor is renowned for high pressure problems caused by main relief gumming up. If it gums up open, you will be up for a new donk!
Has anyone heard of a special oil that disolves varnish, (heard about it being used in autos with sticky valves b4)
Andrew Wollongong

dow50r wrote:Gday
You are rite im thesame person...to take the gauge and sender out of the equasion, get the oil pressure tested. If you are close, i can lend you a gauge and hose. Should not be more than 90 cold and 60 hot is good. But check in the specs b4 taking that as gospel.
Your motor is renowned for high pressure problems caused by main relief gumming up. If it gums up open, you will be up for a new donk!
Has anyone heard of a special oil that disolves varnish, (heard about it being used in autos with sticky valves b4)
Andrew Wollongong

ok ive got the cover off and spring out, but i cannot think of a way to get the piston (plunger) out of there

was thinking just putting cap back on and firing her up, see if the pressure cant dislodge it, but im sure there is a better way :/

Shadow wrote:

dow50r wrote:Gday
You are rite im thesame person...to take the gauge and sender out of the equasion, get the oil pressure tested. If you are close, i can lend you a gauge and hose. Should not be more than 90 cold and 60 hot is good. But check in the specs b4 taking that as gospel.
Your motor is renowned for high pressure problems caused by main relief gumming up. If it gums up open, you will be up for a new donk!
Has anyone heard of a special oil that disolves varnish, (heard about it being used in autos with sticky valves b4)
Andrew Wollongong

ok ive got the cover off and spring out, but i cannot think of a way to get the piston (plunger) out of there

was thinking just putting cap back on and firing her up, see if the pressure cant dislodge it, but im sure there is a better way :/

ok got the plunger out the messy way lol

now the plunger was quite worn on one side, as i couldnt immediately get hold of a replacement i cleaned it up with wet n dry and put it back in, still high pressure.

im going to get hold of a pressure guage tomorrow to make sure the guage in dash or oil presure sender isnt fubarred.

if it ends up being the plunger, i will grab one from toyota with spring, now, if the bore is worn slightly, is it wise to get in there with some fine wet n dry and like a dowl just smaller than bore, to clean it up and take any lips off that may be sticking?

i figure since its before the oil filter any filings shouldnt be major, those that i of course cant clean out,

and if by taking the lip out i increase the bore a touch, this shouldnt have any affect on oil pressures since any oil bypassing the plunger will in itself be relieveing poressure, and if the pressure is too high it is still going to force the plunger back, no matter how much is leaking by it?

anyone fixed this before?

now the plunger was quite worn on one side, as i couldnt immediately get hold of a replacement i cleaned it up with wet n dry and put it back in, still high pressure.

im going to get hold of a pressure guage tomorrow to make sure the guage in dash or oil presure sender isnt fubarred.

if it ends up being the plunger, i will grab one from toyota with spring, now, if the bore is worn slightly, is it wise to get in there with some fine wet n dry and like a dowl just smaller than bore, to clean it up and take any lips off that may be sticking?

i figure since its before the oil filter any filings shouldnt be major, those that i of course cant clean out,

and if by taking the lip out i increase the bore a touch, this shouldnt have any affect on oil pressures since any oil bypassing the plunger will in itself be relieveing poressure, and if the pressure is too high it is still going to force the plunger back, no matter how much is leaking by it?[/quote]

Gday
How did you go with oil pressures and gauges??
I have had a Toyota blow a filter off, and i did much thesame as you, wet and drying the plunger till it was easy to slide in and out of the bore...aslong as the front face is not damaged, the side clearances are not that important, they just keep the front seat square to the other seat.
From memory, my 60 had 90 psi cold, and 60 hot, which is spec.
Have you been having problems getting the filters off the engine???
Andrew

dow50r wrote:now the plunger was quite worn on one side, as i couldnt immediately get hold of a replacement i cleaned it up with wet n dry and put it back in, still high pressure.

im going to get hold of a pressure guage tomorrow to make sure the guage in dash or oil presure sender isnt fubarred.

if it ends up being the plunger, i will grab one from toyota with spring, now, if the bore is worn slightly, is it wise to get in there with some fine wet n dry and like a dowl just smaller than bore, to clean it up and take any lips off that may be sticking?

i figure since its before the oil filter any filings shouldnt be major, those that i of course cant clean out,

and if by taking the lip out i increase the bore a touch, this shouldnt have any affect on oil pressures since any oil bypassing the plunger will in itself be relieveing poressure, and if the pressure is too high it is still going to force the plunger back, no matter how much is leaking by it?

Gday
How did you go with oil pressures and gauges??
I have had a Toyota blow a filter off, and i did much thesame as you, wet and drying the plunger till it was easy to slide in and out of the bore...aslong as the front face is not damaged, the side clearances are not that important, they just keep the front seat square to the other seat.
From memory, my 60 had 90 psi cold, and 60 hot, which is spec.
Have you been having problems getting the filters off the engine???
Andrew[/quote]

hey, got a pressure guage on it and unfortunately only tested it cold, at idle it was 85psi (cold) and at 1500revs it was 125psi(cold). Did not test it hot as these were way above spec already.

the pressure guage at about 90 basically equals the H on the in dash pressure guage.

did a fair amount of work on it today, linished the bore and the plunger with 600grit wet n dry and also changed oil and oil filter. seems to have fixed the problem, now when the engines hotthe pressure is about 3/4 at 2100rpm, and at idle about 1/4.

will be permanently mounting a real oil pressure guage in the near future, and think i will invest in a new plunger for piece of mind.

it seems to me like it may have been the oil i was using aswell as the worn plunger, the oil i was using was HPR diesel, 20/60 which certainly stopped it chewing oil but may have been causing the pressure problems, i was advised by an autobarn guy that the penrite 20/60 would be fine in it. last time i take advice from anyone in autobarn O_O

I know it seems simple or silly to some but one of my 2H's would not handle anything but a gen Toyota filter. I dont know why and i did'nt care but if i used anything but a gen Toy filter it would blow out. But i must say that Ryco filters are pretty strong, one moulded itself on the side of the block and did'nt pop. All i had to do was run a gen Toy filter and all was sweet. Seems others had had the same prob even since new.

my dads 62 series suffered a simiar problem - and it was caused by a lip on the bore that the piston operated against over time.

I believe he got it cleaned up and its been fine ever since. Everlast engines (I think) in Nowra now offer a longer piston to stop the issue re-occuring.

Gday
That sounds like a good idea...so it is the bore getting a lip that holds them shut...ive heard of filters swelling so much they loosen at the front face, and you cant then get them off. (spin but dont undo)
Andrew

Had the same problem with my 2H years ago, cracking a filter.
There is 2 pressure relief valves, from memory, one at the filter, and one at the pump which is a bastard to get to. You need to clean both plungers with wet'n'dry like you did and that will help out. I don't reccomend changing the grade of oil though, engines are designed to run with certain tolerances, and changing the grade will only cover up current problems, but leave you wide open for future problems.

After reading this i have got the same thing i think my 80 has always run with the oil pressure gauge at the top how will this damage the engine if to high presure. It seems to all run fine god nos how long its been this way ?

daz the only damage will really be a blown oil filter as the oil filter is generally the weakest point in the system.

the high oil pressure might not cause damage, but what is causing the high oil pressure can.

you should probably put a real guage on it to see if it is high or your in dash guage or sender unit has lost calibration.

if your using thicker oil it may be causing it

you could also have a blockage somewhere (unlikely ?)

i dont think high oil pressure can cause damage to the engine, unless of course the filter blows, dumps all the oil, and then shes running dry, unlikely tho as the engine management will normally shut the engine down with more than 3 seconds without oil pressure.

The biggest thing is that a blown oil filter and 10 litres of oil on the road behind you can be both messy, and really really annoying.

Shadow wrote:daz the only damage will really be a blown oil filter as the oil filter is generally the weakest point in the system.

the high oil pressure might not cause damage, but what is causing the high oil pressure can.

you should probably put a real guage on it to see if it is high or your in dash guage or sender unit has lost calibration.

if your using thicker oil it may be causing it

you could also have a blockage somewhere (unlikely ?)

i dont think high oil pressure can cause damage to the engine, unless of course the filter blows, dumps all the oil, and then shes running dry, unlikely tho as the engine management will normally shut the engine down with more than 3 seconds without oil pressure.

The biggest thing is that a blown oil filter and 10 litres of oil on the road behind you can be both messy, and really really annoying.

Thanks for reply ill get it checked soon i think they have to thick a oil in gear box as it is real hard to get in gear while cold so could be case in engine too . Question it couldn't blow the guts out of filter and recurculate the rubbish through engine ? Ill get it serviced soon and have all that checked as i want valve clearences etc done etc so i know what is where .

Daz
You cant kill a 1fzfe
Mine is high aswell, made a gauge to check and it seems to be on the high side of the tolerance.
You can try going back a grade in winter, say 10w40 from 15w40.
With the gearbox try CASTROL vmxm (75/90 i think) these boxes are known to be truck like in cold areas...
Andrew

DAZ wrote:

Shadow wrote:daz the only damage will really be a blown oil filter as the oil filter is generally the weakest point in the system.

the high oil pressure might not cause damage, but what is causing the high oil pressure can.

you should probably put a real guage on it to see if it is high or your in dash guage or sender unit has lost calibration.

if your using thicker oil it may be causing it

you could also have a blockage somewhere (unlikely ?)

i dont think high oil pressure can cause damage to the engine, unless of course the filter blows, dumps all the oil, and then shes running dry, unlikely tho as the engine management will normally shut the engine down with more than 3 seconds without oil pressure.

The biggest thing is that a blown oil filter and 10 litres of oil on the road behind you can be both messy, and really really annoying.

Thanks for reply ill get it checked soon i think they have to thick a oil in gear box as it is real hard to get in gear while cold so could be case in engine too . Question it couldn't blow the guts out of filter and recurculate the rubbish through engine ? Ill get it serviced soon and have all that checked as i want valve clearences etc done etc so i know what is where .

if the filter blows it will normally push the rubber seal out, or split around the pressed seem. and dump all the oil straight out

thanks guys i have now got the 40 going again so it is time to start cleaning up and maintaining the 80 plus i am going to do a few minor mods to it most tourer frendly stuff

A question off topic now i have corrected the caster in it , it drives a treat i mean it is like driving a lounge chair with mannors but after correcting the caster it has a vibration like the unis are binding has any one come across this b4 i will remove front tail sharft etc untill i find the cause but it only appeared after i corrected the caster after asking around it seems not to be a common prob thanks for any input Darren

Shadow,
Just recently went through this problem. Very high oil pressure in the 2H. 160 psi. Been like that for 6 months. Decided to get something done about it. Oil pressure relief valve was the problem. Got the longer piston or slug, fitted, no difference. Cut 3 rings off the spring and pressure back to normal. But this is not the proper fix. Proper cost fix for this problem is around 1800-2000 oxfords. Mine has done 352,000 Ks.
Cheers,
scurvy dog.

scurvy dog wrote:Shadow,
Just recently went through this problem. Very high oil pressure in the 2H. 160 psi. Been like that for 6 months. Decided to get something done about it. Oil pressure relief valve was the problem. Got the longer piston or slug, fitted, no difference. Cut 3 rings off the spring and pressure back to normal. But this is not the proper fix. Proper cost fix for this problem is around 1800-2000 oxfords. Mine has done 352,000 Ks.
Cheers,
scurvy dog.

ok i did the same, got the longer piston, same problem,

I am gonna have another go at fixing this soon, and will certainly try your suggestion as I now have 3 plungers and 3 springs to play with. Was also going to try a different rate spring (softer) but the old man didnt have anything even close to what i needed. (hes a hoarder, generally has everything you need aswell as 10 of everything you dont need)

I will also try increasing the hole in the side of the piston which I believe is the reliefe to stop oil leaking past the piston creating pressure behind the piston and holding the piston closed. It could just be for lubrication, but its worth a try I think.

Mine has been like this for about a year now (or more) and no blown filters yet!, although the altenator(vac pump) return line is leaking which is mosty probably a result of the high pressure.

Shadow,
Your dad sounds a bit like me. I am 60 and a hoarder. Let us know how you get along.
Cheers,
scurvy dog.

Guys,
I had replace my plunger and spring in the 2H as well(got the longer plunger etc) and the pressure on the gauge was still up after I did it. Next thing I tried was to replace the oil pressure sender and it now reads where it should on the gauge.

It makes me think it could have been a faulty sender all along.

ive got an aftermarket guage fitted

Blokes,
Yeah, i got one fitted as well.
Reads around 20 psi at idle. (book says 4 and up)
Reads around 35 psi at 2300 rpm. (book says 36 to 85 at 3000)
So far so good.
Cheers,
Scurvy dog.