Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi,

here are some pics from an event that was arranged mid-July in Raajärvi in Northern Finland. There were several rangies, but also other makes (toyos etc.), two of the range rovers have portal axles, volvos in mine and mogs in Mika's, it's a white 2-door one, it also has tractor type tyres, I have tsls.

The first album contains pictures of more build vehicles, the other two are mainly of almost standard ones.

Here are also some videos that were taken from the same event, these are 10-15MB/min quality. The first one (A-studio 6.8.2004.wmv) is not related to this event.

The summer has been quite wet, and the swamps were very soft, this results in a lot of winch usage, which you can see in the videos.

This is one of the best events I have participated, Pyhä-Hyppylä hill trail was something sweet, it was so wet all the time I don't think I had more than 1500rmp there, and I was not able to use low range 2nd gear, since there was a big risk to spin and go more down than forward. Sneaking and creeping, that the name of the game in the swamps most of the time. But if you know how to do it you can go through very wet spots.

Hope you find these entertaining.

-Paavo

Greetings Paavo, The videos are not working for me yet tonight but it looks very soggy in the photos. No wonder you don't like drum brakes! but then again you don't need brakes in slop like that.
Bill.

Looks good! Any verdict on Volvo vs Mog portals?

Hi,

> The videos are not working for me

Hmm.. you have media player v9? I used windows movie maker (v2) with the those, so the codecs used sure are microsoft ones.

> Any verdict on Volvo vs Mog portals?

Volvos are a lot (ten times?) easier to install. The diff is in the wrong side in front axle in mog, Mika has coped with this by modifying the oil pan, and using some jeep xfer box. Volvo C303 (2-axle) gearing is 1:6, Mikas mog axles have ~1:7.5. Mog axles have 18" rims or something like that, so finding tyres with good enough speed rating was difficult, so tyre availability for volvo 16" rims is much better.

Mika has tractor tyres (speed rated up to 80km/h, quite expensive), the size is very close to my tsls (Q78-16, i.e. ~36*11"), tractor tyre grip seems to be better in the swamp, but at least so far I think tsl is better overall.

I think mog axles are heavier, but also stonger. Mika's mog diff locks are mechanically operated, volvo diff locks are vacuum operated. I have installed magnetic switches, I think those are very easy to use.

Here are some pics of Mikas mog-rangie. I know he has changed the tie rod, the original was hanging too low and he bent it quite easily.



My rangie is 2200kg (more than 100kg heavier than Mikas) empty, because I have 4-door body, strong bull bar and bootie-fabbed (oops, self made that is) rock sliders. And back seats ans CD-player and... OK, any1 knows a good diet? :-)

Overall, I think volvos are better, but my opinion might be biased.

-Paavo

Paavo, I know that photos, depending on the angle the camera was held at can sometimes alter the perspective of a picture but it appears that the Panhard rod and the drag link are a long way from being parallel . Does Mikes vehicle bump steer much ?
I have never seen a Mog 404 front diff in the flesh . Is it possible as it is on the Volvo's to flip the banjo housing, bolt the diff centre in upside down and swap the swivel assemblies complete with halfshafts (axle shafts} left to right ? Is Mikes vehicle legal in your country ?
Bill.

great stuff Paavo !

Hi,

daddylonglegs wrote:Paavo, I know that photos, depending on the angle the camera was held at can sometimes alter the perspective of a picture but it appears that the Panhard rod and the drag link are a long way from being parallel . Does Mikes vehicle bump steer much ?

Seems like that, panhard rod and drag link are not parallel, so it should bump steer, I have not asked how much since I don't think that matters that much, the rig is opimised for something else than baja type rough riding at (very) high speeds

The radius arms in Mika's mograngie are also not parallel, the fronts are maybe 10cm (4") closer to each other than the back ends.

I have the same problem (panhard rod and drag link are not parallel) in my rangie, I have been looking for wagoneer pitman arm or something that would bring the drag link driver side end up as much as possible, it should also be shorter than the std rangie one, since I now have 2.5 steering wheel turs from all-right to all-left. Bump steering is not an issue after I replaced a broken steering damper with bilstein HD one, with the broken steering damber I got death wobble all the time when (especially the passenger side front) wheel hit a bump if I had more than 30-40kmh of speed.



Panhard rod can be seen in the middle of the picture, it's behind the (old weak) steering damper, drag link is in front of the axle (tie rod is between the axle and drag link). It is quite visible that panhard rod points more upwards then the drag link.

Anyone knows which pitman arm would fit rangie power assisted steering box, be a bit (1-2") higher at the drag link end and hopefully a bit (1-2") shorter than the rangie original one? I think wagoneer pitman arm would met that "spec" but I have not found one yet. I have std rangie wrag link end that connects to the pitman arm ball.

I have never seen a Mog 404 front diff in the flesh . Is it possible as it is on the Volvo's to flip the banjo housing, bolt the diff centre in upside down and swap the swivel assemblies complete with halfshafts (axle shafts} left to right ?

I think it is possible, but not easy, here are also some discussion of this:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253029
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268900

Is Mikes vehicle legal in your country ?

Yep, it required the special permission from the authorities (~250 euros, and you have to pay even if the decision is negative ), I think the height (max +150mm compared to the very original, including tyres, not sure how accurately this was measured in practise) and tyres (18" rim, need at least 80km/h speed rating) were the biggest problems (challenges I mean).

-Paavo

Thanks for all the information and links Paavo. Yes I think Volvo's are much easier and more versatile to work with than Mog diffs.
I think I may have mentioned this before, but to raise the height of the draglink ball joint when I fitted Volvos to a 110 Landy I removed the ball and seats from the Landy Pitman arm and pressed in a machined piece of steel with a tapered hole to match a LandRover tierod end. This raises the pivot axis up about 60 mm higher at the steering box end. If you can get hold of a LandRover 101 trackrod end it will screw straight into the standard Volvo drag link at exactly the correct length to reach the Rangey/Landy pitman arm. The 101 track rod ends are unique to a 101 but have a circlip that retains the ball and seats and can be reconditioned using a Rover pitman arm rebuild kit.
Bill.

Hi,

daddylonglegs wrote:I think I may have mentioned this before, but to raise the height of the draglink ball joint when I fitted Volvos to a 110 Landy I removed the ball and seats from the Landy Pitman arm and pressed in a machined piece of steel with a tapered hole to match a LandRover tierod end. This raises the pivot axis up about 60 mm higher at the steering box end.

Any pics? Did I get it right, you have a custom made pitman arm or what?

If you can get hold of a LandRover 101 trackrod end it will screw straight into the standard Volvo drag link at exactly the correct length to reach the Rangey/Landy pitman arm. The 101 track rod ends are unique to a 101 but have a circlip that retains the ball and seats and can be reconditioned using a Rover pitman arm rebuild kit.

I have a costom part that connects standard rangie drag link end to standard volvo drag link, and it makes adjusting the drag link lengt very easy, so no problems here. I think it was made of some rifle barrel material or something similar used in guns, should be very strong.

-Paavo

Paavo, I am going to try to arrange some photos to show how we relocated the panhard rod chassis mount and pitman arm modification in a few days time. It is all quite simple once you see it and will permit full suspension travel. No the pitman arm is not custom made. it is the original Landrover 110 with the ball/pin and seats removed. (these are retained with a circlip) and as I said a machined piece of steel with a tapered hole is pressed into the hole where the ball/pin and seats came out of. By having the balljoint on the draglink and the tapered hole in the pitman arm instead of the other way around, the pivot axis is raised higher.
Bill.

Hi,

we had another event in Raajärvi a week ago:

http://stiletti.wipsl.com/gallery/album117
http://stiletti.wipsl.com/videot/OffRoa ... aretki.wmv (204MB, 14min 12sec).

This time we did not use the camera that much, driving was more fun.

Daddylonglegs, pics of the pitman arm?

-Paavo

Great film clip.

very sloppy terrain.

Michael.

Yes Paavo, i took a few photos of the pitman arm and relocated panhard rod last week. Nigel aka Hybrid 100 is going to post them on to this thread because I have not been successful doing so with my computer, but I will try again with pm in a few minutes.
Bill.

Hi All
Got the pictures of Tim's Volvo portal axle Landrover conversion.

I will leave it to Bill to provide descriptions and commentary on the pictures.

Regards

Nigel

1. Pitman Arm Modified Mount.



2. Steering links.



3. Steering Arm.



4. Steering.



5. Radius Arm.


.

Thanks Nigel,I think that I managed to send a successful email with photo attachments and descriptions to Paavo this time, but for anyone else that may be fitting Volvo axles to coil sprung rovers, these photos show the relocated panhard rod chassis mounting with new tie bracket to steering box, and the modified pitman arm that raises the draglink pivot axis about 60 mm.
photo 2 shows that the panhard rod and draglink are not exactly parallel, but if you draw an imaginary line between panhard rod bushes, and another line between draglink ball joints they are in fact geometrically parallel.
photo's 3 and 4 are just different views of the pitman arm.
photo 5 just shows new lower right hand side radius arm for the 3 link suspension.
photo 6, Well there isn't a photo 6 on this lot, but it should show the modified RangeRover difflock vacuum unit that replaces the original Volvo one. Perhaps Paavo can post it from the photos I sent him.
Bill.

Thanks for the pics! The pitmanarm / track rod assembly is very clear now, I just need to locate a LR 101 trackrod end and get the part that fits in the place of pitman arm ball but has a hole in it.

I have not received your e-mail, but the missing pic6 would be interesting as well, original volvo vacumm diff locks won't last forever.

-Paavo

Sorry, forgot picture 6, here it is.

Regards
Nigel


6. Diff Lock Actuator.

Modified from a Range Rover vacuum centre diff lock actuator.