Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I own a '99 110 extreme, have had it almost a year now and done a fair bit of off road work in it. I have basic mods like OME suspension, snorkel etc. I bought it because I believed LRs hype that the Defender is 'the worlds toughest 4wd'. What I didn't realise when I bought it was it is a noisey, outdated uncomfortable son of a bitch. Australia has some long tracks and hours if not days of driving on the black top to get there. Not being able to hear the stereo or my girlfriend for that matter, getting back ache from a few hours in the narrow seats jammed in close to the doors, a/c that struggles to cool the car on an average day is is completely useless in the Ausie summer, getting everything covered in dust which pours into the truck from everywhere on dusty tracks, constant rattles squeaks and bangs on corrugations...I've had enough already....

The question is what do I replace this truck with? I am thinking a Nissan Patrol with some nice off road mods...

Anyone else feel this way?

NO

Open the windows. Toss the stereo. Pretend to listen to your girlfriend. Enjoy.

I can get back aches from driving a Jaguar for a few hours, but I have driven my Defender for up to 2000 km in one go without issues.

Kind of a Grimace question to ask in the land rover section. Bag your defender and ask us if you should buy a nissan??

What the hell were you thinking

Seriousely though, your criticisms of the Defender Xtreme are all valid, but incomplete. Just wait till it starts giving you problems. You should be on first name terms with your bank manager.
Bill.

You have never driving a GU have you

No I've never driven a GU, why???

Daddylonglegs....Defender cost me quite a bit when I first got it, new water pump, front wheel bearings and a few niggley things that had to be fixed. To be fair it has been pretty reliable and economical since. But I have been told by several people (including a LR specialist) that the Patrol has a stronger driver train and is a tougher truck..

mabsydney wrote:Daddylonglegs....Defender cost me quite a bit when I first got it, new water pump, front wheel bearings and a few niggley things that had to be fixed. To be fair it has been pretty reliable and economical since. But I have been told by several people (including a LR specialist) that the Patrol has a stronger driver train and is a tougher truck..

The patrol does have a stronger drive train but as far as 'tough' im assuming you mean off-road ability.. In stock form a defender is more capable than a patrol. And if you want comfort then a patrol will be better for you.

go P-troll!

DFND90 wrote:

DFND90 wrote:The patrol does have a stronger drive train but as far as 'tough' im assuming you mean off-road ability.. In stock form a defender is more capable than a patrol. And if you want comfort then a patrol will be better for you.

Agreed, but how many serious off roaders do you know run stock fbs?

Yes I want comfort for long hard days in the outback, don't you?

mabsydney wrote:

DFND90 wrote:

DFND90 wrote:The patrol does have a stronger drive train but as far as 'tough' im assuming you mean off-road ability.. In stock form a defender is more capable than a patrol. And if you want comfort then a patrol will be better for you.

Agreed, but how many serious off roaders do you know run stock fbs?

Yes I want comfort for long hard days in the outback, don't you?

Personally i find my D90 more than comfortable enough, sure a patrol is cushier but i like land rovers. Period. And if you like land rovers you generally dont care about small ergonomic issues. Like wilsby said Open the windows. Toss the stereo. Pretend to listen to your girlfriend. Thats exactly what i do

Patrol is more than likely cheaper to do up too, so your decision is pretty much made up isnt it? Trade your Defender on a Patrol and all your probs will be solved

Are you looking at a petrol or a diesel patrol ? What model,

The GU diesels have the same "agricultural" feel as the defenders - the petrol versions are much more refined however you should consider the economy - the equation will work out like this - about 19 or 20L/100K around town with a petrol and about 16 or 17L/100K on the highway

But hey like DFND90 I like Rangies and Landies so hey while you are rattling you way up a track I am sitting in AC comfort with nice lush interior of my range rover wheeling in summer - what is the problem

BTW IMO the Nissan with cost just as much if not more to fix/maintain,
last time a mate of mine priced a starter motor (for diesel) the nissan price around $1100 and he ended up paying $400 (from memory) for an after market unit - Rangie starter motor $300 including and fits models from 1970 - 2000

Tom

My 90 doesnt even have air-con let alone air-con that is sub par

Mabsydney, as you can tell most LandRover enthusiaststs are pretty one eyed. I don't know if that means we are half blind, but we seem to be prepared to put up with all the noise, draughts, rattles, leaks, shoddy design , poor quality control, etc etc that you have criticised, just to enjoy
"The Land Rover Experience" I have personally suffered from Roveritus for the past 36 years. It is said that there is no cure for the affliction. I don't know, but if you aren't already stricken then my advice is to get out now while you still can, before its too late.
Bill.

Land Rovers have character-all others are just a mode of transport!

(i drive a GQ but my heart is in rover's and we own one)

wilsby wrote: Pretend to listen to your girlfriend.

She knows better than to try and talk to me over the whine of the gearbox!

Macca

Wise words Bill...

At my previous job/uni we had a fleet of Cruisers (100 & 78 troopy) Hiluxes (single and dual cab) and a 4cyl TD Patrol wagon. I drove all of them at one point or another and drove the toyotas regularly.

The leaf rear trucks (hilux and 78troopy) were quite uncomfortable compared to my county, and had about the same noise as my county's ISUZU diesel (which was surprising - isuzu is a bit noisier at idle).

The 80 series and GU patrol were similar in comfort to my 110, and did have more leg room and elbow room, but the TD in the patrol had very noticeable tubo lag (very on-off type driving) and was surprisingly noisy and agricultural (even compared to my county).

At the end of the day after driving them I was happy to get back into my 3.9D county 110. The only problem was I had to pay the fuel in the county.

I guess I keep (run and maintain) my 1976 Series 3 SWB Diesel despite the inbuilt design problems it has. It is a strong,capable vehicle and I will never (at my stage of life) change to another manufacturer. However if I were to be reborn and had the money to spend I would buy......a current Diesel Toyota SWB vehicle of some sort. (And then maybe start again and spend money - who knows?)
As Bill (Daddylonglegs) put it so well - we are faithful to Rover vehicles 'despite' their problems.

Tom,

I'm defo looking at a diesel patrol, I couldnt afford to drive the 4.8 petrol around the block nevermind on a big trip. Diesel is the only choice for me....better and always available in the outback and better for river crossings....but I guess most of all more economical as I'm not made of money. As far as the Rangie goes, yeah what can I say I like them but I can't afford one...I'm sure a/c and passenger comfort is as good as any contender.

Bill,

I hear you about being a LR fanatic, there are things I like about them, hey I bought one, so I must have liked them right? But having been subjected to the LR 'experience' I think LR need to wake up and realise that well they are running with a tried and trusted design that has worked for them for years, the competition are continually adapting and evolving. That is more a comment on ergonomics than engine, I know the TD5 is a quite a high tech direct injection intercooled engine.

personally I am fond of them all....Rovers, Patrols, Zooks.

We are dedicated enthusiests to a certian kind of truck that we like. It really doesn't matter which truck you drive as long as you are happy with it. Remember it is not about the car you drive but how you drive it!

I myself own and drive old Patrols, for the same reasons many of you drive Rovers. We could argue all day about what is better but to me it seems kind of pointless. Every vehicle made has strong points and weak points. Just enjoy the ride!

mabsydney wrote:Tom,

I'm defo looking at a diesel patrol, I couldnt afford to drive the 4.8 petrol around the block nevermind on a big trip. Diesel is the only choice for me....better and always available in the outback and better for river crossings....but I guess most of all more economical as I'm not made of money. As far as the Rangie goes, yeah what can I say I like them but I can't afford one...I'm sure a/c and passenger comfort is as good as any contender.

Bill,

I hear you about being a LR fanatic, there are things I like about them, hey I bought one, so I must have liked them right? But having been subjected to the LR 'experience' I think LR need to wake up and realise that well they are running with a tried and trusted design that has worked for them for years, the competition are continually adapting and evolving. That is more a comment on ergonomics than engine, I know the TD5 is a quite a high tech direct injection intercooled engine.

I hear what you are saying - I would love my rangie to be diesel
and I understand your feelings toward the 'LR experience'.

Tom

ISUZUROVER wrote:the TD in the patrol had very noticeable tubo lag (very on-off type driving) and was surprisingly noisy and agricultural (even compared to my county).

At the end of the day after driving them I was happy to get back into my 3.9D county 110. The only problem was I had to pay the fuel in the county.

I know this is a little bit off topic, but my understanding is that it is not so much turbo lag inthe 3.0 litre as reduced fuelling off idle inoder to reduce smoke ( to pass euro standards I think) I too noticed this and felt the car would be much better in a manual.

Ps I can't stand GU's or 100 series - WAAAAY to fat, poor visibility, vulnerable bodywork and no character.

I guess you either get Rovers or you don't.

I love them to pieces but I my wife was too scarred by the dodgy reliability of our 91 vogue to ever permit me to own another one. That's one of the things I love about the G - it's like a reliable auto 110. (with lockers)

One advantage of owning a LandRover is that they are so unappealing to the average Joe that you can leave your keys in the ignition all the time and it will probably never be stolen. I had my LandRover stolen a couple of years ago. Found it 200metres down the road with a note on the seat from the theif saying how sorry he felt for me and leaving me a $100 donation towards a visit to my psycho analyst.
Bill.

daddylonglegs wrote:One advantage of owning a LandRover is that they are so unappealing to the average Joe that you can leave your keys in the ignition all the time and it will probably never be stolen. I had my LandRover stolen a couple of years ago. Found it 200metres down the road with a note on the seat from the theif saying how sorry he felt for me and leaving me a $100 donation towards a visit to my psycho analyst.
Bill.

Very funny Bill, seriously though, a mate in the Brisbane LR club bought his son a SII 88", with push button start, no door tops and no door locks. His son used to park it at a train station every day, and after a week or two of doing this it got stolen. The police eventually found it a couple of weeks later - seems the thief had driven it until it ran out of patrol and left it.

RMP&O wrote:Remember it is not about the car you drive but how you drive it!

Couldn't have said it better myself