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Suspension tech...
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:54 am
by DeWsE
Well I made this post in my build up thread but didn't get any comments. So either that thread is lamo and not worth reading, or nobody acturally knows tech and finally nobody gives a crap about my POS.
Anyway have a read....
Well worked on the zook the other day. I have put the two helpers back in the rear so now it is a stock OME medium spring. The rear is now working great, getting heaps more power to the ground. the front on the other hand is still pretty loose, but I can most probably deal with that.
Now for another problem. I have installed the front shoks vertical to the diff, not realising how far the front diff will move back. So the front shocks now have a bit of denting. oops. I still have to move the hangers back though, so this might help with the direction of movement. (bigsteve can you measure how far farward yours are?)
Just a question, how does the diff move backwards in a reverse shackle setup. Why I ask is because the front drive shaft is designed to extend forward on the slip yoke but not backwards. I'm thinking if I add a spacer then the diff shouldn't be able to go backwards as at tgis tage I have over an inch constantly extended. Any idea's?
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:34 pm
by sierrajim
big steve isn't running shackle reversal is he?
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:51 pm
by DeWsE
vitarajim wrote:big steve isn't running shackle reversal is he?
Nope but what I am trying to figure out is if I can reduce the amout the diff moves back. I want it to pust forwards into the opstical so i can gain more traction.
It seems as though I haven't asked the rigt questions and also the only way I will know is if I just play with it.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:10 pm
by bigsteve
I can't comment on a SR as I have not run one.
I think what you are saying is that when the suspension tucks/droops and the diff moves forward & backward the shock is making contact with something??? What is it contacting with?
I think we need a pic from the side looking into your wheel arch with the tyre off.
ALSO
It seems that given the issues you had with the front wanting to invert (did you actually invert a shackle/s??) you want to try a fixed mount at the front (SR) to combat this.
Am I on track, its Tuesday and it still feels like Monday?
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:29 pm
by DeWsE
I'm confusing myself I think.
The shock is hitting the u clamps on the diff.
What I want to active is the diff stays approx the same position on droop and the compressed side moves foward.
Look just ignore this thread and I'll just test a few things then come back with a write up.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:45 pm
by bigsteve
Sounds like the upper mounts are a touch too far forward.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:53 pm
by DeWsE
bigsteve wrote:Sounds like the upper mounts are a touch too far forward.
haha cool I like sherades (sp?)
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:47 pm
by grimbo
DeWsE wrote:I'm confusing myself I think.
What I want to active is the diff stays approx the same position on droop and the compressed side moves foward.
nope you're confusing me too
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:12 pm
by redzook
DeWsE wrote:I'm confusing myself I think.
The shock is hitting the u clamps on the diff.
What I want to active is the diff stays approx the same position on droop and the compressed side moves foward.
Look just ignore this thread and I'll just test a few things then come back with a write up.
the diff will normally go towards the the shackle on compression and away at droop
so a SR will head back on compression normally. causes rubbage at the fire wall thats why most SR's move the diff a fair way forward. it will also droop forward
a standard shackle arrange ment willl do the opposite
but not all work like this
my zuk the springs are flat so the diff moves rear ward under compression and droop
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:40 pm
by DeWsE
Alright now that the phones have slowed down I'll try explain what i'm after again.
First of all I have looked at SR and I don't think it would suit my needs so i'm not going that way.
What I want to know is that when a drive shaft is closed on the slip yoke does that mean it will not allow both ends of the diff to move rearwards when approaching something with both wheels?
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:43 pm
by redzook
DeWsE wrote:Alright now that the phones have slowed down I'll try explain what i'm after again.
First of all I have looked at SR and I don't think it would suit my needs so i'm not going that way.
What I want to know is that when a drive shaft is closed on the slip yoke does that mean it will not allow both ends of the diff to move rearwards when approaching something with both wheels?
WTF
ur drive shaft should be able to move forwards and backwards
if i read that right u r tryin to use your drive shaft to stop the front diff movin back?
id say it would punch straight into your tcase or bust ya mounts on the tcase
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:46 pm
by DeWsE
redzook wrote:DeWsE wrote:Alright now that the phones have slowed down I'll try explain what i'm after again.
First of all I have looked at SR and I don't think it would suit my needs so i'm not going that way.
What I want to know is that when a drive shaft is closed on the slip yoke does that mean it will not allow both ends of the diff to move rearwards when approaching something with both wheels?
WTF
ur drive shaft should be able to move forwards and backwards
if i read that right u r tryin to use your drive shaft to stop the front diff movin back?
id say it would punch straight into your tcase or bust ya mounts on the tcase
Thanks redzook I understand it now! Your right that wouldn't really help would it
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:11 pm
by bigsteve
Dude,
Put me down for 3 of whatever you were taking/smokin at work today
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:10 am
by 1MadEngineer
So who here has actually done a shackle reversal?
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:10 am
by DeWsE
bigsteve wrote:Dude,
Put me down for 3 of whatever you were taking/smokin at work today
I was all over the place yesterday, had a good sleep though last night so I should be back on track.
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:00 pm
by Luigi Malone
1MadEngineer wrote:So who here has actually done a shackle reversal?
Me, I haven't.
Nah JJ. A friend recently bought a Sierra 410 with a SR, and he couldn't take it off quick enough. On road habits were just tooooo exciting.
I would love to hear from somebody who has done it also. Must be wheeled and road driven to be any use to me.
LM
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:07 pm
by DeWsE
Luigi Malone wrote:1MadEngineer wrote:So who here has actually done a shackle reversal?
Me, I haven't.
Nah JJ. A friend recently bought a Sierra 410 with a SR, and he couldn't take it off quick enough. On road habits were just tooooo exciting.
I would love to hear from somebody who has done it also. Must be wheeled and road driven to be any use to me.
LM
Sam (overkill) and Tim (redzook) have both done it at same stage or another.
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:21 pm
by Luigi Malone
Thanks Dewse.
Sam and Tim, was it worth it? Do you still run it, and if not why not.?
TIA.
LM
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:31 pm
by 1MadEngineer
I have done SR on a few Zuks and they rode and handled great, woulndn't have it any other way.
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:40 pm
by DeWsE
Luigi Malone wrote:Thanks Dewse.
Sam and Tim, was it worth it? Do you still run it, and if not why not.?
TIA.
LM
Sam ran it on his first two rigs now he has coils. Tim was gonna set it up on his new rig.....so I think they like it. Main reason being is that it improves approach angle. They were both S/O and had put the spring perches in a location so that they didn't require a drop down spring hanger at the front. (like the calmini one). Redzook suggested to me that I could use shims on the spring perch to achieve the right pinion angle.
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:21 pm
by redzook
DeWsE wrote:Luigi Malone wrote:Thanks Dewse.
Sam and Tim, was it worth it? Do you still run it, and if not why not.?
TIA.
LM
Sam ran it on his first two rigs now he has coils. Tim was gonna set it up on his new rig.....so I think they like it. Main reason being is that it improves approach angle. They were both S/O and had put the spring perches in a location so that they didn't require a drop down spring hanger at the front. (like the calmini one). Redzook suggested to me that I could use shims on the spring perch to achieve the right pinion angle.
ive neva had a shackle reverse
but will have one eventually
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:05 pm
by bazooked
just coil it and lock it and u wont have any probs
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:59 pm
by Drew
have you looked at the calmini fitted ?.It moves the diff forward, with 33s the approach is better than you think + no inverted springs.
I just measured it, stock 130 mm from chassis to the bottom of the spring,calmini 155mm from chassis to the bottom of the spring.don't believe what is written by someone selling other parts.if you look at the other buildups with s'r you'll notice the box section welded to the chassis then the spring eye mount welded to the bottom of that.
Your welcome to have a look i have 3 zuks in the build at the moment all with different setups so im not biased just because i have a zuk with the calmini s/r .Come for a run to mundaring next weekend you can't do much more damage
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:16 pm
by OVERKILL ENG
1MadEngineer wrote:So who here has actually done a shackle reversal?
Me me me
I had a shackle reversal on my first Zook and it was awsum made climbing ledges easier gave me a better approach angle I could ram the mounts into the rocks without the risk of bending the shackles.
On road it drove better. The caster has to be reset when doing a SR I think this is why they get such a bagging for road use cause people do the reversal without doing the caster and then they do drive badly.
SAM
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:20 pm
by OVERKILL ENG
Luigi Malone wrote:Thanks Dewse.
Sam and Tim, was it worth it? Do you still run it, and if not why not.?
TIA.
LM
Yes I run coils now only because we wanted to make a kit. Yes the coils are a smoother ride and has more travel than most leaf setups and is easier to stretch the wheelbase slightly.
If I was to have another leafy I would definately do a shackle reversal.
SAM
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 pm
by 1MadEngineer
sam, of course i know you have
and it is good to hear from people who have actually done this conversion.
Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:48 pm
by Luigi Malone
[quote="Yes I run coils now only because we wanted to make a kit. Yes the coils are a smoother ride and has more travel than most leaf setups and is easier to stretch the wheelbase slightly.
If I was to have another leafy I would definately do a shackle reversal.
SAM[/quote]
Sam, can you either explain to this pleb the best way to SR, or point me to where I can glean the info from one as learned as yourself?
A thousand camels to you effendi.
LM.
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:56 am
by moose
did SR on mine about 3 years ago !!
wouldn,t go back to conventional zook set-up !!
the ride quality "kicks @rse" over standard leaf !!
as SAM said , great for hitting & climbing ledges !!
did some 1 say "APPROACH ANGLE" !!!
now , with the looonger springs , the ride is even better again !!
but as stated , move your diff forward of the original position !!
I,m running 33,s & get no firewall rubbage !!!
