Outer Limits 4x4 Board

having heaps of issues just keeping my 84 rangie running.

runs off petrol for a bit then dies (fuel leaks out of carbie) now has a gas leak in the converter and motor struggles to run on lpg

any thoughts? fix carby and gas system, or upgrate the 3.5 to something better?

Depends how much you have to spend, If money is an issue then fix the carbie and lpg or if you have the coin and determination put a nice EFI 3.9 in it or something?

DFND90 wrote:Depends how much you have to spend, If money is an issue then fix the carbie and lpg or if you have the coin and determination put a nice EFI 3.9 in it or something?

didn't know they made 'Nice 3.9 EFI systems' they are all crap!!!

Don't waste yr money on std EFI computer (not only Rover) they are very simple and not very efficent!! Mega Squirt etc would be 10 times better and then Motec, Wolf , Hawk etc for around the price of a factory unit is a lot more programmable and reliable!!

Say NO to Lucas!!!!!

mickrangie wrote:

DFND90 wrote:Depends how much you have to spend, If money is an issue then fix the carbie and lpg or if you have the coin and determination put a nice EFI 3.9 in it or something?

didn't know they made 'Nice 3.9 EFI systems' they are all crap!!!

Don't waste yr money on std EFI computer (not only Rover) they are very simple and not very efficent!! Mega Squirt etc would be 10 times better and then Motec, Wolf , Hawk etc for around the price of a factory unit is a lot more programmable and reliable!!

Say NO to Lucas!!!!!

Dude this bloke is flat out getting his rangie running and you are saying get a megasquirt ! The 3.9 EFI is quite nice in comparison to the 3.5 and it is hugely more reliable. Let's get him running well and then teach him how to build an ECU

Tom

i hear a p76 motor is the go,


how much is one of these mega squirt efi set ups? i dont know much about carbies and such only diesel setups.

right now i'd like to be able to drive the car, but fixing the problem and getting more power would be great.

RaginRover wrote:

mickrangie wrote:

DFND90 wrote:Depends how much you have to spend, If money is an issue then fix the carbie and lpg or if you have the coin and determination put a nice EFI 3.9 in it or something?

didn't know they made 'Nice 3.9 EFI systems' they are all crap!!!

Don't waste yr money on std EFI computer (not only Rover) they are very simple and not very efficent!! Mega Squirt etc would be 10 times better and then Motec, Wolf , Hawk etc for around the price of a factory unit is a lot more programmable and reliable!!

Say NO to Lucas!!!!!

Dude this bloke is flat out getting his rangie running and you are saying get a megasquirt ! The 3.9 EFI is quite nice in comparison to the 3.5 and it is hugely more reliable. Let's get him running well and then teach him how to build an ECU

Tom

LOL all i am saying is don't waste yr money on a Lucas EFI system just to find out that they suck!!!

Megasquirt was given as an examlple as were wolf and motec.....

The 3.9 system is better then the 3.5 and they both SUCK!!! (when i have more time i will explain in full detail why they SUCK!!)

IMHO if the car is a carby and coin is an issue stayaway from EFI unless you know what u are doing.... (not saying you don't)

Now you have fired me up....

look at it this way..

I had my Wolf ECU and made my own wiring loom up.... so my only cost was $420 in dyno time...

EFI system (non lucas) starting around $900 to what ever you want to spend for prebuilt units
wiring loom - to get it made up will cost you around 500 hunna mark
injector manafold around 500
then injectors 50 - 100 each!!!
oxy sensors 90bucks
air temp sensor $25
dyno time (a must if you want yr investment to give you 100% return) 400 to 1000 depending on where you take it...

so far thats 3k and you probably still having cold start problems etc....

and if you want to run LPG add a few more $$$ for tuning that also

now if you stayed with carbie and LPG

pay for carbie tuning fixing etc..... 200 buks
new ring and LPG tuning 200 buks....
still too much $$$ learn to tune yr self...

I am not trying to convince anyone not to EFI there rig but I have done a lot of research and installed my own EFI system so i know the ins and outs of it all....

mickrangie wrote:

RaginRover wrote:

mickrangie wrote:

DFND90 wrote:Depends how much you have to spend, If money is an issue then fix the carbie and lpg or if you have the coin and determination put a nice EFI 3.9 in it or something?

didn't know they made 'Nice 3.9 EFI systems' they are all crap!!!

Don't waste yr money on std EFI computer (not only Rover) they are very simple and not very efficent!! Mega Squirt etc would be 10 times better and then Motec, Wolf , Hawk etc for around the price of a factory unit is a lot more programmable and reliable!!

Say NO to Lucas!!!!!

Dude this bloke is flat out getting his rangie running and you are saying get a megasquirt ! The 3.9 EFI is quite nice in comparison to the 3.5 and it is hugely more reliable. Let's get him running well and then teach him how to build an ECU

Tom

LOL all i am saying is don't waste yr money on a Lucas EFI system just to find out that they suck!!!

Megasquirt was given as an examlple as were wolf and motec.....

The 3.9 system is better then the 3.5 and they both SUCK!!! (when i have more time i will explain in full detail why they SUCK!!)

IMHO if the car is a carby and coin is an issue stayaway from EFI unless you know what u are doing.... (not saying you don't)

Now you have fired me up....

look at it this way..

I had my Wolf ECU and made my own wiring loom up.... so my only cost was $420 in dyno time...

EFI system (non lucas) starting around $900 to what ever you want to spend for prebuilt units
wiring loom - to get it made up will cost you around 500 hunna mark
injector manafold around 500
then injectors 50 - 100 each!!!
oxy sensors 90bucks
air temp sensor $25
dyno time (a must if you want yr investment to give you 100% return) 400 to 1000 depending on where you take it...

so far thats 3k and you probably still having cold start problems etc....

and if you want to run LPG add a few more $$$ for tuning that also

now if you stayed with carbie and LPG

pay for carbie tuning fixing etc..... 200 buks
new ring and LPG tuning 200 buks....
still too much $$$ learn to tune yr self...

I am not trying to convince anyone not to EFI there rig but I have done a lot of research and installed my own EFI system so i know the ins and outs of it all....

While I agree with you that the EFI systems are average (well actually I believe the 3.5 L jettronic is pretty average at best) the 3.9L hotwire system actually works and is quite reliable.

While it may fuel too rich its whole life and give you fark all data back to help you it still does actually work and is quite resilliant. Now don't get me wrong I am all for improving on what we have to increase performance and economy I find it hard to accept the argument that the hotwire system isn't at the least reliable.

Don't forget that these systems have had the ass de-tuned out of them so they will run on our fuel. Our rangies and discos have no oxygen sensors - hard for the ecu to know how to fuel when it gets no data back from the car!! One of the things I will be doing is adding oxygen sensors to my rangie to see how the fueling changes.

I am keen to build myself a megasquirt ECU at some stage and hanker for a laptop interface I can't deny that there are rigs in our club with 250, 000+ Km with all origional ECU, injectors and AFM - all they have consumed are plugs, leads, occasional rotor and a fuel pump.

Of course if you had the choice between lucas injection and something else then we all know what we would choose but to most of us that is not an option. My 3.9V8 runs smoother, more power and better economy than my 3.5 carbie ever did. Agreed I only payed people to reset the mixtures on the carbies a few times and replaced the diaphrams myself but chasing the faults in the ignition system was a PITA.

Maybe if I had paid someone to do a full rebuild and tune the carbies she probably run a heap better - but I am cheap

Tom

Dave, lpg is dead simple so i would check for air locks in the coolant lines, check all hose connections and solenoids, check your electrics also,and lpg can leave gum like deposits in the converter which will prevent it from running properly. If your carbs are leaking fuel then they made just need some new gaskets , needle and seat and a tune.

Nick.

What kind of carby is fitted? I'm assuming it isn't the stock strombergs.

holley 350 carbie is on.

i've found where the gas is leaking from, might try brazing over the holes to see if that fixes it.

Whoa back there, big fella!
Do not mess with gas convertors, especially trying to braze or weld the housings.
If it is badly damaged from water corrosion, then it's stuffed. Same if the housing is cracked.
Assuming it's an Impco or a Century (Century is better for more fuel delivery, doubtful if you'll ever run out of fuel with an Impco on a 3.5 tho) go to a wrecker and pinch one of a 4.0 Ford wreck.
Or buy a new one.

Otherwise you may have some rather alarming explosion problems down the track.

i've just put some silicon over the leak for a short term fix. i'll go and get another one. next week or so

RaginRover wrote:

mickrangie wrote:

RaginRover wrote:

mickrangie wrote:

DFND90 wrote:Depends how much you have to spend, If money is an issue then fix the carbie and lpg or if you have the coin and determination put a nice EFI 3.9 in it or something?

didn't know they made 'Nice 3.9 EFI systems' they are all crap!!!

Don't waste yr money on std EFI computer (not only Rover) they are very simple and not very efficent!! Mega Squirt etc would be 10 times better and then Motec, Wolf , Hawk etc for around the price of a factory unit is a lot more programmable and reliable!!

Say NO to Lucas!!!!!

Dude this bloke is flat out getting his rangie running and you are saying get a megasquirt ! The 3.9 EFI is quite nice in comparison to the 3.5 and it is hugely more reliable. Let's get him running well and then teach him how to build an ECU

Tom

LOL all i am saying is don't waste yr money on a Lucas EFI system just to find out that they suck!!!

Megasquirt was given as an examlple as were wolf and motec.....

The 3.9 system is better then the 3.5 and they both SUCK!!! (when i have more time i will explain in full detail why they SUCK!!)

IMHO if the car is a carby and coin is an issue stayaway from EFI unless you know what u are doing.... (not saying you don't)

Now you have fired me up....

look at it this way..

I had my Wolf ECU and made my own wiring loom up.... so my only cost was $420 in dyno time...

EFI system (non lucas) starting around $900 to what ever you want to spend for prebuilt units
wiring loom - to get it made up will cost you around 500 hunna mark
injector manafold around 500
then injectors 50 - 100 each!!!
oxy sensors 90bucks
air temp sensor $25
dyno time (a must if you want yr investment to give you 100% return) 400 to 1000 depending on where you take it...

so far thats 3k and you probably still having cold start problems etc....

and if you want to run LPG add a few more $$$ for tuning that also

now if you stayed with carbie and LPG

pay for carbie tuning fixing etc..... 200 buks
new ring and LPG tuning 200 buks....
still too much $$$ learn to tune yr self...

I am not trying to convince anyone not to EFI there rig but I have done a lot of research and installed my own EFI system so i know the ins and outs of it all....

While I agree with you that the EFI systems are average (well actually I believe the 3.5 L jettronic is pretty average at best) the 3.9L hotwire system actually works and is quite reliable.

While it may fuel too rich its whole life and give you fark all data back to help you it still does actually work and is quite resilliant. Now don't get me wrong I am all for improving on what we have to increase performance and economy I find it hard to accept the argument that the hotwire system isn't at the least reliable.

Don't forget that these systems have had the ass de-tuned out of them so they will run on our fuel. Our rangies and discos have no oxygen sensors - hard for the ecu to know how to fuel when it gets no data back from the car!! One of the things I will be doing is adding oxygen sensors to my rangie to see how the fueling changes.

I am keen to build myself a megasquirt ECU at some stage and hanker for a laptop interface I can't deny that there are rigs in our club with 250, 000+ Km with all origional ECU, injectors and AFM - all they have consumed are plugs, leads, occasional rotor and a fuel pump.

Of course if you had the choice between lucas injection and something else then we all know what we would choose but to most of us that is not an option. My 3.9V8 runs smoother, more power and better economy than my 3.5 carbie ever did. Agreed I only payed people to reset the mixtures on the carbies a few times and replaced the diaphrams myself but chasing the faults in the ignition system was a PITA.

Maybe if I had paid someone to do a full rebuild and tune the carbies she probably run a heap better - but I am cheap

Tom

I concur with Tom on this issue.

While I agree they could be much better, there simple, basic and reasonbly relaible. I not one for fancy ECU's, engine management or any of that shit, if it works and doesn't play up it's fine by me. Keep it simple and you can't go wrong.

The old 3.5 L-ject ECU is a nightmare to get running right. My dad's rangie is an 88 with the L-ject system, runs like crap when cold and uis lumpy and stalls occasionally when idling at operating temp. I have looked at it, fiddled with it (which i was aprehensive about doing, but foerced to as it was running like a complete dog!!), while there was some improvment, it still wasn't too flash and in this case going back to carbies or upgrading to a Motec, etc.. would be the best option if you have the dosh.

We all have diffrent needs and levels of expertise when it comes to issues such as this, my electrical prowess is limited and simplicity suits me

Regards,

Trav