Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I'v purchased another 80seris front diff with the intention to modify the rear of my rig for rear steer

What problems have people come across IE the law,


Chad

professor wrote:I'v purchased another 80seris front diff with the intention to modify the rear of my rig for rear steer

What problems have people come across IE the law,


Chad

Shouldnt you be lookin at the strength of that diff.. i know the weakest link in the 80 series is the front diff..

puttin the front in the rear would give it ANOTHER weak link wouldnt it???

Unless youre planning on puttin a nissan centre in it

TOM

I already have the high pinion in the rear.

My thoughts on the mod were to remove the swivel nuckels from the 80 and turn my ifs rear to suit (diff center in the center) only draw back i can see is making new axles. I have GQ gear but i found it easyer to use the toyota stuff, it all bolts together.

Chad

professor wrote: it all bolts together.

Chad

so why not use 2 hilux of 40s long side axles and the ctr you already have. if you are going to the trouble of grafting the 80s outers onto the IFS housing you will need custom axles and surely it would be easier to build a housing (tube length) to take standard axles rather than custom ones.


NICK

NICK wrote:

professor wrote: it all bolts together.

Chad

so why not use 2 hilux of 40s long side axles and the ctr you already have. if you are going to the trouble of grafting the 80s outers onto the IFS housing you will need custom axles and surely it would be easier to build a housing (tube length) to take standard axles rather than custom ones.


NICK

Good point Nick. does the two end up being the correct lenght (same width as an 80 front)? getting them made up might be stronger than standard maybe!

2 40's longsides once fitted to a housing is close to a 80's front.


NICK

NICK wrote:2 40's longsides once fitted to a housing is close to a 80's front.


NICK

Cheers

professor wrote:

NICK wrote:2 40's longsides once fitted to a housing is close to a 80's front.


NICK

Cheers

you need to think about it some, but it will all come quite clear in time. although i really dont understand the hydro steer thing fully i think i got it worked out after talking to 1madengineer


NICK

professor wrote:I'v purchased another 80seris front diff with the intention to modify the rear of my rig for rear steer

What problems have people come across IE the law,

if your planning to have it road legal, it would pay to talk to an RTA engineer - preferably the one who will pass/fail it before you invest.

bogged wrote:

professor wrote:I'v purchased another 80seris front diff with the intention to modify the rear of my rig for rear steer

What problems have people come across IE the law,

if your planning to have it road legal, it would pay to talk to an RTA engineer - preferably the one who will pass/fail it before you invest.

Already in the pipe line need to talk to him some more but in a nut shell all i need is to lock it off for road travel. just means i have toe in correction on the rear .

does your rig have rear steer? and if so how do you control it?

professor wrote:does your rig have rear steer? and if so how do you control it?

Like 99% of people here, I have no need for rear steer..

so when you say "lock it in place" does this include a manual system, say a htdro hose was to brake does the system need to remain locked or is it considered safe using only the hydro.


NICK

bogged wrote:

professor wrote:does your rig have rear steer? and if so how do you control it?

Like 99% of people here, I have no need for rear steer..

I probably dont either, but i can so i am!

I enjoy 80% building, 10% driving and 10% thinking of building while driving

NICK wrote:so when you say "lock it in place" does this include a manual system, say a htdro hose was to brake does the system need to remain locked or is it considered safe using only the hydro.


NICK

Far as i know Nick it has to be mechanically locked into a central position when onroad.

cplux wrote:

NICK wrote:so when you say "lock it in place" does this include a manual system, say a htdro hose was to brake does the system need to remain locked or is it considered safe using only the hydro.


NICK

Far as i know Nick it has to be mechanically locked into a central position when onroad.

yeah, you just carry a longer lynch pin for the clevis on the end of the ram that is long enough to reach through a stopper tag on the housing.

make sure you have enough space back there for the tyres to steer before you even think about starting to plan it out ROFL.. a steering, articlulating tyre takes up lots of space....

Wendle wrote:

cplux wrote:

NICK wrote:so when you say "lock it in place" does this include a manual system, say a htdro hose was to brake does the system need to remain locked or is it considered safe using only the hydro.


NICK

Far as i know Nick it has to be mechanically locked into a central position when onroad.

yeah, you just carry a longer lynch pin for the clevis on the end of the ram that is long enough to reach through a stopper tag on the housing.

make sure you have enough space back there for the tyres to steer before you even think about starting to plan it out ROFL.. a steering, articlulating tyre takes up lots of space....

Yeah it is bad enough having the front steer and keeping everything clear of the tyres and with that in mine you can't make the chassis narrower because that makes the chassis an 2004 model not a 1995 model and i don't want that!!!!

I'm still not sure how i will control the rear steer. being solinoid or manual valve bank????

you should just be able to run a control valve with a sensing ram to give you a return to centre option. you'll need to think about a bigger steering pump and more resovoir. what are you using up front for steering?

Wendle wrote:make sure you have enough space back there for the tyres to steer before you even think about starting to plan it out ROFL.. a steering, articlulating tyre takes up lots of space....

Thats what I was thinking.

Looking at the back of the GQ today, you could only have it like the 89mod Honda Prelude steering which you can barely see turn...
Something they scrapped really fast....

return to center is pretty easy, parts required are 2 x cetop3 directional control valves (1 for supply , 1 for direction ) 1 x 2 station manifold with relief P-T, 1 x dual counterbalance block (so you dont break too much stuff), 1 x push-pull cable, 2 x switchs (roller arm or proximity), 2 x 2pole relays & 1 x 4pole relay and bases. I can knock up a quick wiring and hydraulic diagram if you are serious about doing it. this setup allows the use of either push-button or lever switching for the steering and a single push, button for latching return to center.

1MadEngineer wrote:return to center is pretty easy, parts required are 2 x cetop3 directional control valves (1 for supply , 1 for direction ) 1 x 2 station manifold with relief P-T, 1 x dual counterbalance block (so you dont break too much stuff), 1 x push-pull cable, 2 x switchs (roller arm or proximity), 2 x 2pole relays & 1 x 4pole relay and bases. I can knock up a quick wiring and hydraulic diagram if you are serious about doing it. this setup allows the use of either push-button or lever switching for the steering and a single push, button for latching return to center.

diagrams yes please. Can you supply the hardware you listed??? If not where do i round this gear up??

bogged wrote:

Wendle wrote:make sure you have enough space back there for the tyres to steer before you even think about starting to plan it out ROFL.. a steering, articlulating tyre takes up lots of space....

Thats what I was thinking.

Looking at the back of the GQ today, you could only have it like the 89mod Honda Prelude steering which you can barely see turn...
Something they scrapped really fast....

No stress sorry if i offended i thought the big green eyed monster took a swipe at me again

The back of my rig is well setup for rear steer, I nolonger have a full chassis rear of the diff and with the width of track of the 80 i will get full left to right movment which will be execellent

i'm going to use DOBBINS ram for both front and back and i was thinking of running an external 12v hydrolic pack to run the rear. The front i'm just going to port the steering box and run it parallel to the old system, you know to keep a mechanical link.

Any idea on how you think you are going to make this axle hold together?

Most people struggle to keep them together in the front end. I think you are just going to break this axle all over the place.

Sam

Why use dobbins rams? the ones i use cost me less than $120 each, and there is no need for an external 12v pump pack unless you are goin to do extra functions like suspension, almost all the bits needed would cost less than $1k if bought at the right places, i can supply a shopping list as well.

But i do agree with sam, strength is goin to be a huge issue.

I figure that they are as strong as the IFS rear now and i dont have a very heavy right foot and i'm also advantaged by having a power house 2.8L

I am thinking of using Dobbins stepper diffs in the future when he gets them all up and running.

but for now ???????


I started with the idea of rear steer to get the rear to track the same as the 80 front without using the 80 rear (that is offset). the IFS rear is around 200mm narrower and i don't like wheel spacers neather does the engineer.


Other than stepper diffs what sugesions do people have for the rear end???

professor wrote:I figure that they are as strong as the IFS rear now

your IFS rear doesn't have CV joints to break though!

professor wrote:Other than stepper diffs what sugesions do people have for the rear end???

put a GQ diff in there. strong, cheap and centred.

hey people i have a few developments

going to run the 31 spline high pinion front centre
Gq rear housing
and 80 series swivles brakes etc

i'm thinking of controling the steer by a 3 way manual valve and not dig switches


I'm confused on where to connect the valve IE before or after the steering box. to work similar the ox winch setups????

I'm sure someone out there has some insight into this Question


thanks Chad

Interesting project. Maxi-Drive have been building rear steer setups for Land-Rovers for years but they are $$$$$. They use a return to centre system, with a pin to lock the rear steering in place for road use.

1MadEngineer wrote:return to center is pretty easy, parts required are 2 x cetop3 directional control valves (1 for supply , 1 for direction ) 1 x 2 station manifold with relief P-T, 1 x dual counterbalance block (so you dont break too much stuff), 1 x push-pull cable, 2 x switchs (roller arm or proximity), 2 x 2pole relays & 1 x 4pole relay and bases. I can knock up a quick wiring and hydraulic diagram if you are serious about doing it. this setup allows the use of either push-button or lever switching for the steering and a single push, button for latching return to center.

Any chance of getting the diagrams and shopping list

getting close to getting it in

Chad

How many degrees of rear steering lock are you aiming for ? If you dont get too greedy and limit it to about 15 degrees the Cv.s should survive. If you swap the rear diff for a hilux low pinion it should be ok too. Have you thought about steering cutting brakes instead ?
Bill.

Check out this setup this fella now makes them for the US military.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... ndex3.html