Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:44 pm**

Guys,

Superior Shackles on the rear of an MQ? But any leave sprung car is the same question..........
Are they as good as what they are hyped up to be?
I never thought much of em and was just gonna run 2 inch longer shackles in the rear ( currently ), till a bloke with em on his SWB MK came into work and i got talking with him. I watched him drive it up onto a small brick wall, and i rekcon that those shackles would have to give at least another foot of clearance.

I wouldnt use them on the front, but what about the rear??
What re your thoughts guys?

cheers,

Screwy

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:49 pm**

I was turned off them by Hypo 12 months ago. When I look around now, do you see comp vehicles with them on????

Question answered IMO.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:51 pm**

In my opinion the shackles are good for slow crawling on horizontal ground. They give heaps more wheel travel but will increase rear axle wrap and axle hop.

IMO they arnt any good if you are into the hill climbs but i guess you can always lock them solid on the climbs.

Ive never run them though.

Sam

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:03 pm**

They are awesome shackles but as above, they are not suited to the majority of comp rigs. Although I don't think that your use is for comps anyway. They do give more travel but it can depend on how much flex your bushes will allow also. For slow rocks, crossing deep ruts and ramping they are great but are best suited to the rear.

Posted: **Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:59 pm**

mudtoy wrote:They are awesome shackles but as above, they are not suited to the majority of comp rigs. Although I don't think that your use is for comps anyway. They do give more travel but it can depend on how much flex your bushes will allow also. For slow rocks, crossing deep ruts and ramping they are great but are best suited to the rear.

The rig that these are going on will indeed be an Open class comp rig next year, im only in STD this year but thats only cause my rig aint ready yet.
Seeing as its for pure off road and comp work im curious as to whether i should get a set.....
I may try and find a set second hand for a fair bit cheaper than new and try them?

screwy

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:26 am**

I must say people with them seem quite happy with em and they don't regularly come up 2nd hand

They work best with the whole package of straps and bars etc

Do a search this has come up heaps

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:31 am**

Most of the previous threads will put you off.... I know one I was in said "I dunno anyone who bought them a second time or kept them for their next truck".

I think they're great for ramping and ultra low speed stuff, but the handling tradeoff needs review.

I think as back only you're doing yourself a favour.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:55 am**

ignorant comments forgetting the difference between superior and climax :oops:

haven't run them myself, but most of the zook drivers that i've heard comment on them say negative things... stories of springs being damaged after only one trip, big axle tramp, stuff like that. been told buy a local guy that run them never to have them on the front cos of the way it affects steering and stuff. he was trying to sell his set, but didn't really want to sell them to me cos he knew me...

but then again, some ppl love them. i think kermit runs them on his LJ zook in comps. i wouldn't run them myself - lack of control when they unload, especially on side angles... could end up on ya roof in the worst case

search for drop shackles, climax, or superior..

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:23 pm**

stumped wrote:haven't run them myself, but most of the zook drivers that i've heard comment on them say negative things... stories of springs being damaged after only one trip, big axle tramp, stuff like that. been told buy a local guy that run them never to have them on the front cos of the way it affects steering and stuff. he was trying to sell his set, but didn't really want to sell them to me cos he knew me...

but then again, some ppl love them. i think kermit runs them on his LJ zook in comps. i wouldn't run them myself - lack of control when they unload, especially on side angles... could end up on ya roof in the worst case

search for drop shackles, climax, or superior..

Man a superior shackle is a fairly different creature to the other drop shackles in the design of the hinge. They are the better design as far as flop shackles go (not too far IMO).

Kermit runs climaxes not superiors and its not really apples to apples camparing the two

Heck I've had no name drop shackles and climaxes but can't comment on superior ones cause they are different again

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:31 pm**

-Mick- wrote:Man a superior shackle is a fairly different creature to the other drop shackles in the design of the hinge. They are the better design as far as flop shackles go (not too far IMO).

Kermit runs climaxes not superiors and its not really apples to apples camparing the two Heck I've had no name drop shackles and climaxes but can't comment on superior ones cause they are different again

OWN3D

it was too early in the morning and i was trying to rush thru the posts before starting work :oops:

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:26 pm**

-Mick- wrote:
stumped wrote:haven't run them myself, but most of the zook drivers that i've heard comment on them say negative things... stories of springs being damaged after only one trip, big axle tramp, stuff like that. been told buy a local guy that run them never to have them on the front cos of the way it affects steering and stuff. he was trying to sell his set, but didn't really want to sell them to me cos he knew me...

but then again, some ppl love them. i think kermit runs them on his LJ zook in comps. i wouldn't run them myself - lack of control when they unload, especially on side angles... could end up on ya roof in the worst case

search for drop shackles, climax, or superior..

Man a superior shackle is a fairly different creature to the other drop shackles in the design of the hinge. They are the better design as far as flop shackles go (not too far IMO).

Kermit runs climaxes not superiors and its not really apples to apples camparing the two

kermit runs superiors USED to have climax shackles

he leaves the shackles pined for winch challanges and fast stuff

but y would u want the shackles anyways? gimmick

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:34 pm**

mate, i gather by your responses that none of you have used these, having seen these in action and just put an order in for myself, i can personally reccomend them, but you must do it right, you cant just go and whack on the shackles and expect them to work, cause it will but not very well, and you will have those afore-mentioned problems.

now if you want it to work, then ring up mick at superior and get him to run you thru it, but basically, he will make you up some new springs about a foot longer at the front, and you will have to weld on a new spring mount approx 260mm further forward of your current mount to allow for the excessive twist your springs will get from now on,

next up comes a wicked lil invention called a ladder bar, you will have this welded from your diff to a chassis crossmember (varies with each vechile) this is what will stop all that un-wanted axle wrap that you were all winging about,

next up comes a set of wonderfully nice rancho RS9000 shockies plus a few lil other things to finish it off

and presto you have one hell of a rear end that will out flex nearly anything on or off the road and drive like standard on road, and yes it will be good for hill climbs due to the ladder bar, plus there is absolutely nothing wrong with having them on the front either,

if you want anymore proof of this, ring mick at superior on 07 3889 6778
then go and see the two trucks his got in his front yard.....nice

and no i dont work for him, nor will i get anything out of this, just one very happy customer

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:15 pm**

Elmo wrote:mate, i gather by your responses that none of you have used these, having seen these in action and just put an order in for myself, i can personally reccomend them, but you must do it right, you cant just go and whack on the shackles and expect them to work, cause it will but not very well, and you will have those afore-mentioned problems.

now if you want it to work, then ring up mick at superior and get him to run you thru it, but basically, he will make you up some new springs about a foot longer at the front, and you will have to weld on a new spring mount approx 260mm further forward of your current mount to allow for the excessive twist your springs will get from now on,

next up comes a wicked lil invention called a ladder bar, you will have this welded from your diff to a chassis crossmember (varies with each vechile) this is what will stop all that un-wanted axle wrap that you were all winging about,

next up comes a set of wonderfully nice rancho RS9000 shockies plus a few lil other things to finish it off

and presto you have one hell of a rear end that will out flex nearly anything on or off the road and drive like standard on road, and yes it will be good for hill climbs due to the ladder bar, plus there is absolutely nothing wrong with having them on the front either,

if you want anymore proof of this, ring mick at superior on 07 3889 6778
then go and see the two trucks his got in his front yard.....nice

and no i dont work for him, nor will i get anything out of this, just one very happy customer

So there goes the whole "best suspension upgrade for under $500" idea. That is alot of work and money to use some new shackles. Or you could save the money on the shackles and do everything else for a much improved suspension. A well thought out suspension usong quality springs and shocks is a much better option before using the shackles IMHO. It doesn't appear that any of the top competitors here or in the US (using revolvers a very similar shackle) I wonder why?

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:25 pm**

Elmo wrote:mate, i gather by your responses that none of you have used these, having seen these in action and just put an order in for myself, i can personally reccomend them, but you must do it right, you cant just go and whack on the shackles and expect them to work, cause it will but not very well, and you will have those afore-mentioned problems.

now if you want it to work, then ring up mick at superior and get him to run you thru it, but basically, he will make you up some new springs about a foot longer at the front, and you will have to weld on a new spring mount approx 260mm further forward of your current mount to allow for the excessive twist your springs will get from now on,

next up comes a wicked lil invention called a ladder bar, you will have this welded from your diff to a chassis crossmember (varies with each vechile) this is what will stop all that un-wanted axle wrap that you were all winging about,

next up comes a set of wonderfully nice rancho RS9000 shockies plus a few lil other things to finish it off

and presto you have one hell of a rear end that will out flex nearly anything on or off the road and drive like standard on road, and yes it will be good for hill climbs due to the ladder bar, plus there is absolutely nothing wrong with having them on the front either,

if you want anymore proof of this, ring mick at superior on 07 3889 6778
then go and see the two trucks his got in his front yard.....nice

and no i dont work for him, nor will i get anything out of this, just one very happy customer

whats it all cost? sounds like a bit id rather just put money towards coils and have a better ride and prolly the same flex

a ladder bar will stop rap but id say u will still hop/bounce around a bit when u try to climb hills and that

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:29 pm**

for the cost of shackles, ranchos, custom trac bar, custom springs (that will shag out pretty quickly due to the twist), the engineers report for moving the spring mount, plus "a few lil other things to finish it off" to have a vehicle that still rides like a leaf sprung rig, would you not do a coil conversion?

I don't think that anyone has a particular problem with the shackles, they could be a good idea if you wanted to spend that much money and still have leaf springs, but they are advertised as a bolt in part. No mention of shocks etc. Hence Grimbo's comment.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:27 pm**

oh yeah, they are a bolt in part and they do add a fair amount of flex, as far as "the best buy under $500" i wouldnt go past it, but they work best when everything else is done accordingly, and it does ride a lot better than any leaf sprung vechile than i've ever ridden in before, believe it or not, it was almost coil like ride on road, jump onto superiorengineering.com its all on there, i've really grown to love these things, give me a few months to finish it off but they will be going under the front of my daihatsu as well, rear end only will get you onto a 44 gallon drum, F+R ....mmmmmmmmm

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:42 pm**

Hinged shackles only drop when there is no weight so theres no traction anyway the tire will want to bounce up when it fines traction when the hinge is open,if you can controll the drop it seems to work OK but still wouldn`t use them,longer shackles and some titanium balls will do the trick
and also when you drop of a ledge the hinge opens a wants to throw you over the top.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:32 pm**

4sum4 wrote:Hinged shackles only drop when there is no weight so theres no traction anyway the tire will want to bounce up when it fines traction when the hinge is open,if you can controll the drop it seems to work OK but still wouldn`t use them,longer shackles and some titanium balls will do the trick
and also when you drop of a ledge the hinge opens a wants to throw you over the top.

After reading this whole thread.
This post is the biggest one made to helping me make a desision.
I believe this makes sence, and will be a contributing factor into my decision.
I didnt think of these points.
Other points are also great too. Thanks guys

screwy

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:40 pm**

4sum4 wrote:Hinged shackles only drop when there is no weight so theres no traction anyway the tire will want to bounce up when it fines traction when the hinge is open,if you can controll the drop it seems to work OK but still wouldn`t use them,longer shackles and some titanium balls will do the trick

This has been my experience driving with other drop shackles :roll:

I have seen a few rigs with superior shackles doin their thing and I'd rather a well thought out link coil system for the same price

Just my opinion I have not driven with superiors

Mick from superior is a cool dude though and very good to deal with, have a chat to him

Superior Website

OPTION 1

The kit comprises of 4 springs, 4 shackles, 2 shock hoops, 4 rancho shocks, 2 fixed eye mounts, 2 front shackle mounts, 3 extended brake lines, custom top and bottom shock mounts, limiting strap, 2x3inch wheel spacers, 2 rear spring lift blocks, ladder bar assembly , 4 x u-bolts.

All that is needed to fit this setup is a small amount of mechanical knowledge, basic toolkit and a welder.

$3410 supply only or $ 4000 fitted

OPTION 2

Rear supension only: 2 custom springs , 2 drop shackles, 4 custom shock mounts, 2 Rancho 5000 shocks, 2 fixed eye mounts, 1 brake line, 1 limiting strap, 2 X 3 inch wheel spacers, 1 ladder bar, 2 u-bolt flip kits . GUARANTEED TO GET YOUR TRUCK ON A 44 GALLON DRUM !!! Supply only $2500 / Fitted $2700

The MQ Patrol Overkill 5 Link front suspension package

The Overkill 5 link replaces the standard control links with precision engineered parallel equal length upper and lower control arms on each side of the vehicle with a panhard rod.

To further relieve fatigue in the suspension cycle Overkill use a unique Heim Joint either end of each link which change the behavior of front axle articulation dramatically. This design liberates the front suspension to cycle within a full range of movement offered by the springs and long travel shocks.

The unique Heim Joints are precision fasteners, which allow for superior rotaional movement in the joint compared to the standard pin and bush joint manufactured by Nissan. Overkill use precision machined Heim Joints that are designed with a polyurethane bush that prevents metal on metal operation. This reduces friction in the joint and prolongs the life of the joint.

The Heim Joints have a massive 25mm cage and threaded rod, which allow for the fine-tuning of kingpin rake and pinion angles to suit each individual application. Each Heim Joint is capable of up to 20 degrees rotaional movement, the use of a Heim Joints at each end of a Control Arm will allow for a maximum of 40 degrees of rotational movement. In plain English...this translates to MAJOR WHEEL TRAVEL!!!

Price: $2300 fully installed

The rear 5 link would be less too so for the same price..... :idea:

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:52 pm**

Got em on the rear of my GQ and love em.
you will find that 90% of people who say they are shit haven't ever seen them in use. never experienced this "violent unloading" bullshit that allot of people seem to talk about. I've also got a mate with 75 series that runs em front and rear with about 8inches lift or something crazy like that and it doesn't have any problems and goes everywhere.

All up i think there great, i can see that in high speed aplications they may not be the best thing, but if your not thrashing your car around then i'd say get em.

About people saying there expensive to set up i dont think they really are, you still need allot of the same gear no matter what setup you have.

and lastly yah mick from superior is a great guy to talk to, will help you out as much as he can.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:14 pm**

thanks for that opinion Josh.
I may call Superior and have a Yarn

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:25 pm**

wen i was down there Jeff i thought u said your springs will flex mad, y u want those farked up shackles that will make your rig hop

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:43 pm**

am expecting them to.
Can never have too much flex though....
Just curious as to whether they are worth the dosh?
cant afford em for months anyways...

Only one way to find out about my current setup.
DRIVE IT :twisted:

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:45 pm**

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:am expecting them to.
Can never have too much flex though....YES U CAN
Just curious as to whether they are worth the dosh?
cant afford em for months anyways...

Only one way to find out about my current setup.
DRIVE IT

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:57 pm**

hypolux wrote:
Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:am expecting them to.
Can never have too much flex though....YES U CAN
Just curious as to whether they are worth the dosh?
cant afford em for months anyways...

Only one way to find out about my current setup.
DRIVE IT

hhhmmmmm.....

Well ive been doing some reading over the last coupla hours and i figure there is a better option.

Im thinking about welding a new shackle mount on the bottom of the chassis on my rear so that the drops the shackles and forces them on a better angle resulting in more flex.

Has anyone tried this?

screwy

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:36 am**

you can have too much flex. A fully locked car with slightly stiffer suspension can in some circumstances out drive a similar car with super flexy suspension. All to do with contact pressure. I have seen in the US a couple of super flexy ramp kings sitting with all four wheels spinning on the ground because they couldn't generate enough traction. Thena locked front & rear Trooper (Jackaroo) just walked through the same obstacle by picking a wheel up.

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:15 pm**

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:
hypolux wrote:
Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:am expecting them to.
Can never have too much flex though....YES U CAN
Just curious as to whether they are worth the dosh?
cant afford em for months anyways...

Only one way to find out about my current setup.
DRIVE IT

hhhmmmmm.....

Well ive been doing some reading over the last coupla hours and i figure there is a better option.

Im thinking about welding a new shackle mount on the bottom of the chassis on my rear so that the drops the shackles and forces them on a better angle resulting in more flex.

Has anyone tried this?

screwy

Heaps of people do it its also good cause it keeps the origanal hight

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:01 pm**

yeh, i figure doing it this way will make the shackle sit at a much better angle and will have far more travel in the shackle rather than purely relying on the springs to open...

screwy

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:13 pm**

Elmo wrote:if you want anymore proof of this, ring mick at superior on 07 3889 6778
then go and see the two trucks his got in his front yard.....nice

been waiting on a callback from the mysterious Mick @ superior since wednesday... spoke to some bloke there about my lux who kept telling me i need to speak to Mick - left my details... no callback.
perhaps my query wasn't hardcore enough for his liking

Posted: **Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:24 pm**

gurumon wrote:
Elmo wrote:if you want anymore proof of this, ring mick at superior on 07 3889 6778
then go and see the two trucks his got in his front yard.....nice

been waiting on a callback from the mysterious Mick @ superior since wednesday... spoke to some bloke there about my lux who kept telling me i need to speak to Mick - left my details... no callback.
perhaps my query wasn't hardcore enough for his liking

I would say this is unusual for Mick. It may be he never got the message or it has just slipped his mind. I would call him back. I have yet to hear a bad report about Customer Service from Superior.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Superior Shackles??

Superior Shackles??