Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Guys looking for opions and advice based on people having both or used both.I m undecided in wether to fit a airlocker or detriot to the rear diff in a 92 diesal patrol wagon running 38 TSLS non turbo .Manly used for deep rutted tracks and rocks with some mild mud thrown in.

Problem I have is that I dont like the idea of if anything happens to the air or electical systems I loose my locker were as a Detroit is on all the time dont have to think .I already have on board air and a presure switch so when bying the air locker i get the switch and soilinoid all i have to do is fit it which i can do myself was told $1050

were as a rear Detroit i have been told $1600 but no extras.

Was also told by Locked Drive Systems that a rear Detroit wasnt avaiable for Patrols.Then Opposite lock are telling me it is avaiable just not many people dont use it.

So dose anyone use a rear Detroit and how much do they sell for please help as im looking to by in the next week

Hey Duncan
I run detroit full lockers in my hiluxsurf have just converted to solid axle and put the full 1 up front .
A lot of people bag the detroits as noisy harsh and all the rest but most people havent used them the new genertaion are heaps better than the 1s of old in my oppinion go for the detoit mate and never look back too many probs can go wrong with the ARB lokkas a mate has them in the front and rear of his surf and they arnt that good but others say they are the bees knees .
Russ at Opp lock in Ballcatta is the best to ask stew who works there has full detroits front and rear in his gq and captn bog has a detroit in the rear of his gq ute so they are available .
Warranty isnt an issue on tyre size with the detroit where with the arb you loose warranty at a certain tyre size so go the detroit mate .
Will see ya in brunswick i hope as long as me truk is ready.
dave

If you have only had a detroit then you think its great, as I did, but once I changed to an air lock my opinion of the detroits has changed.

SOmetimes in mud you need to turn locks off and since it is $550 cheaper I wouldn`t even be thinken about a detroit.

In our group (gutsuishers) 7 out of 8 used to run detroits in the rear and air locks in the front over time 3 out of the 7 have changed to air locks front and rear and 1 of the 4 left is changing as soon as he can aford it.

I do like the "always on" appeal of the detroit - you don't have to choose when to turn it on or off. In the rear the decision making may not be too much of a problem, but for the front it's ARB for me - it's sitting in the garage waiting for me to get the diff out!

I went ARB for the front because I want to choose when the diff will lock - or, more importantly, NOT lock - just need to work out where to put the switch. I'll stick with the LSD in the rear for a while - it's always on!

Scott

NJ SWB wrote:I do like the "always on" appeal of the detroit - you don't have to choose when to turn it on or off.

Its no different then turning the rear lock on when you put the hubs in and turning it back off again when you take them out. But it still gives you 100 times better road manners and the possibility of turning if off if the need arises, not to meantion lees tyre wear on the road.

Another thing I noticed when I was running a detroit as has 1 of my mates is that you tend to wear out ring and pinions quicker. Don`t know why but you do

Im already running a lockright in the front and am breaking to many cvs with all the drive realisticly comming from the front need some push so fit a rear locker .I no how airlockas work and the wifes TJ wrangler runs a OX locker in the front drove it and the difference in steering is heaps like my front locka better but if running the rear air locka on all day would you realy feel it as it wont like to turn as no differencal movment is alowed when its on .Being only on loose surfaces would it matter or make the car hard to drive or is it just a case of not being lazy and turning it on and of when needed

Monty from the board is running a detroit in the rear of his 60. It works offroad like any locker, however, it is fairly harsh on road. He has had dramas with his pinion, which can be attributed to the detroit and 35's on bitumen. There are some circumstances where it is good to be able to turn the locker off e.g. sand.

I run a rear ARB locker and it is good. Have had a few little issues with solinoid problems, nothing major. The detroit off road has been a little more reliable, but all in all, the ARB is a better setup, specially when you are returning to the bitumen.

I run an ARB in the rear and had a Detroit in the front (now the front has been stripped out for a SAS).
My Detroit was the newer softlocker version with the different profile gears and it worked extremely well. No clunking, ratcheting or any noise whatsoever. It was custom made by Geelong Diffs here in Melbourne who has a licence to manufacture them. You only new it was there by the extra tightening on the steering wheel. In mud it could be a handful when trying to turn but otherwise was brilliant.
The rear ARB has been good also but had to get a rear O ring replaced (under warranty) and had numerous air leaks which I fixed myself. No other problems with it.
I think if you have the $$ the ARB is the go especially if you drive a lot of mud and slippery side slopes. I didn't have any option at the time than the Detroit for the front (ARB have now released one) but it was worth it.

had rear detroit in my mwb cruiser for about 6 months now, and i love it. no loud noises but has slight ratcheting on tight corners, havent yet noticed extra tyre wear. as guts said, in mud sometimes better to not have locked diifs - i was actually snatching bloke in a surf up steep muddy hill, once he got going again he was driving straight and i was quite literally driving sideways up the hill. oh, and fish tailing. was fun tho

might one day get another locker, will consider putting detroit in front but dont know if this is too wise.



btw, what about jac mac?

cant really comment on an air locker as i have never had one, but i have been very happy with my detroit i have. I have had it for 5yrs now and never really had any problems with it. Occasionally they cant make up their mind wether to lock or not and can let out a bit of noise and a bit of a twitchy feel in the rear. One thing they are bloody strong, i have sheared all 10 crownwheel bolts twice and blown up one ratio with the only damage to locker a few slight marks from metal fragments.

I suppose this is all comming down to wether its worth while spending $600 more on a Detroit that will never have any problems or go the cheaper route with the possibility of having electrical or air failuers .Just out of interest how many people have ripped the air connection out of the top of the diff and how easy is it to up grade to hydraulic hose instead of that crappy blue plastic

I had detroits front and rear in my landrover for a few years and they were a real handfull both on and offroad. the occasional loss of control on firm but slippery tracks was a bit scary, the odd clanging and banging when reversing or driving in an out of carparks was annoying,the occasional grenaded CV joint was unnecessary. But what really turned me off them was one time when I was driving down a very steep, rocky,ugly off cambered fire trail. the weight transfer to the RHS wheels confused the detroits into thinking the vehicle wanted to make a lefthand turn so it cammed out both righthand wheels and the truck kept getting horribly sideways and nothing I could do would bring it back. If the truck didnt have a nice wide wheel track it would certainly have overturned, possibly many times. Another LandRover with ARB's completed the descent without drama. I removed both detroits a few days later and was amazed at how nice the vehicle was to drive and steer both on and offroad. If you have the choice then in my opinion selectable lockers are the way to go.


Bill

Bill.

U wanna kik ass and have no dramas
go the Detriots!!!

At the very least you have total control on an air locker, knowing it is either engaged or not.

There is no 'mishaps' with engaging/dis engaging when off cambered terrain is encountered.

The two pain in the arse things I have found with airlockers are these:
1. learning to steer (use locker) going up hill on slippery/low traction surfaces. [I have alleviated this by using switches on my steering wheel alla falcon/commodore]
2. breaking/severing airlines esp. on the rear near the diff housing. [have fabbed an alluminium housing for it now] took me two years to figure it out *lazy*

Other than that I cant find to many faults.

Ive had both and i prefere the ARB's total control i if the 4B is use for commuting then ARB's are the go.

Wally.

I would say ARB for the control and predictable handling.
Its what Im fitting to my lux sometime this week.

The worry of the air line getting damaged or ripped out of the fitting is easily solved by carrying a spare olive, some spare air line, and a push fit nylon hose joiner. All of which doesnt take up much room in your spares/tool kit.

Paul.

I`ve run my front air lock for about 6 years and the rear for about 4 and have never had an electrical problem nor have I ever damaged an air line, if run correctly you will not have any problems with damaged lines.

Only thing I`ve had a problem with was my old compressor died, but that was after me using it for 4 years and the old owner for about 4 or 5 years before that so I don`t think that is really anything to complain about.

On another note with detroits if you snap a axle or cv they can unload in such a way that they will distroy themselves instantly, and at $1600 that becomes one costly fix. I have seen this happen twice, once in the rear of a mid wheel base cruiser and another in the rear of a hilux.

If you have a detroit or lockright in the front and you break a rear diff or axle you cannot, repeat cannot drive any real distance home in front wheel drive. the torque steer when acellerating or decellerating is savage and almost impossible to control.

i agree Bill it is bad enough when in 4wd, i had a Detroit in the front of my SWB GQ, savage torgue steer under accelleration and deccelleration, swerving all over the road when you back off esp. in low range

Thanks for theinfo guys but just need to no about rear installs as i have a locrite up front that i love and wouldnt change for those guys that do run rear airlockas do you leave them on all day or on and off if you leave it on all day how dose it affect your driving style can you feel it push you when turning and how well do they drive on rocks when locked up and trying to turn

just turn it on when needed, can cause the back to drift downhill when the road has any sort of camber mainly when slippery (when slippery can spin you quite easily). Can hear the rear tires scrubbing if you attempt to do a tight turn on any surface, just like being in 4wd and doing a tight turn can hear scrubbing of tires between front and back wheels. Couldn't imagine it would be the best if doing a tight turn on rocks would get some serious windup accross the rear diff.
If you watch all the comp guys are constantly working their lockers, it would be hard work being a navi, and only put them in when required.

I have just been through a similar choice and yes total control was one of a few things but SERVICEABILITY was top of the list ARB components are everywhere and so is knowledge of the product so I went air locker

My opinion of them is that i'm surprised they are that strong....
My dad's rocky and now mine has been going off roading without fail every weekend for the past 20 years. Come to think of it the detroit locker on my Rocky is a good 15 years old.
The amount of abuse these lockers we have thrown to it and yet still going strong. Only idiosyncratic problems is that its abit slow to engage and can be confused at time and the annoying backlash.
Been through 4 Trans Peninsular ( The grand father event before the Rainforest Challenge in Malaysia).
And on top of that when i started driving it after i got my license i have to admit i was a terrible driver thanks to to "Dori Dori" craze aka Drifting...
So just imagine an idiot going around corners and dumping the clutch midway to get the back end to kick out....

I guess it is just boils down if u can adapt to using it. Personally i dont have any dramas with it.

In comps I turn locks (both f + r) on and off depending on track etc

Socail driving I leave rear on most of the time, only on the bigger tracks (main dirt roads) I turn it off. I don`t notice any real differance with it on other then being able to slide the rear out if I want

Could you guys explain what you mean about confusing the rear locker as my front works all the time never had it not lock up sometimes it dosent come out straight away but that dosent matter

I run front and rear Detriots in my Rocky (no choice, no other lockers available) I am pretty happy with them, but cant give an objective comparison to an air locker. You do have to modify your driving style with Detriots fitted. If you buy new, read the manual, it is listed in there. When 4wding, I do a lot in 2wd, with hubs in, and usually only use 4H or 4L when needed. The locked rear diff takes you a lot further than if it was unlocked, so using 2wd on a trip isnt a hassle.

In my Zuk I have had an LA Locker which is an early Detroit an Air Locker and now back with the LA. I much preferred the air locker in the rear but I moved that to the front and as I had the LA Locker already i put it into the back. I like the selectability of the air locker as I found that sometimes having the rear locked wasn't helping and by unlocking I could swing the car around easier against obstacles. It seemed like having the rear locked it was making more traction in the rear but when unlocked the traction was more in the front thus pulling the car around.

As to Air locker problems I have only had two problems and both times it has been my bad routing of the airlines, 1st time too close to the exhaust 2nd time too close to the sump. ( I have had locator pin problems but that was an inbuilt safety device whilst I was testing the locker for ARB)

I would go the Air locker[/i]

daddylonglegs wrote:If you have a detroit or lockright in the front and you break a rear diff or axle you cannot, repeat cannot drive any real distance home in front wheel drive. the torque steer when acellerating or decellerating is savage and almost impossible to control.

I am calling BS
Have you tried this first hand?
Because I have driven a couple of times for 50km plus in front wheel drive only with a detroit no problems at all.
You just need to drive smoothly, slow down and adjust to it

I run front and rear detroits and am happy with them for now.
They were the cheapest option in a jeep, and I don't want to spend $ on diffs I will be replacing one day.

Mine is not a daily driver though, and if it was I would go the ARBs.
Best thing about detroits is no one ever yells at me to turn my front locker on just as I get stuck on something

cheers

z

You are talking absolute crap zzz, and you dont even read the posts properly. I said I had detroits front and rear so obvousely I have tried it.
Attempting to drive in frontwheel drive with a detroit is bloody dangerous and virtually impossible without putting yourself and other road users in danger. And the same goes for lockrights too. I have also tried these personally and fitted them for other people and nobody keeps them for long before switching to selectable lockers in the front at least.
You can go back to sleep now!

nobody keeps them for long before switching to selectable lockers in the front at least.


Well not quite....I run front and rear detroits in my 97 TJ and love em. Won't bore you with pro-detroit banter as most of the benefits have been stated here already.

I did however notice mild understeer onroad (by no means what I would call dangerous) before I converted the front to free hubs. They have only been a PITA once offroad turning which was caused more by the rear tyre being flat. Now have 2lo to disengage front drive if it ever happens again.

Interesting fact - my vehicle is now safer to drive on-road in the wet with a detroit in the rear than with the factory rear LSD. You have to really punt it to get the tail out now. Much better handling.

Horses for courses...