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Welding and Mod Plating - QLD
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:37 pm
by Meldge
I guess if you can weld good enough you can do your own engine mounts and whatever else, but what do you need to do/study/know before being able to do your own mod plates?
Meldge
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:47 pm
by Utemad
Just at a guess I would imagine you would have to be a qualified automotive mechanic or mechanical engineer for starters.
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:49 pm
by Shadow
Utemad wrote:Just at a guess I would imagine you would have to be a qualified automotive mechanic or mechanical engineer for starters.
Re: Welding and Mod Plating - QLD
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:51 pm
by Damo
Meldge wrote:I guess if you can weld good enough you can do your own engine mounts and whatever else, but what do you need to do/study/know before being able to do your own mod plates?
Meldge
Experience. The code of practice for light vehicles details what qualifications and experience you need to approve certain modifications. From memory from 5 up to 10 years.
Oh, and "good enough" welding should be in accordance to Australian Standard AS1554 SP.
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:51 pm
by auto_eng
Depends on the mod code.
Some require trade certificate
Some require you to not only have an engineering degree but have achieved CPEng status.
They all require between 5 and 10 years employment in the field before you can be considered. You are also required to have access or own the TORUMS Act, Light Vehicle Code of Practice and the Motor Vehicle Standards Act.
I have a look in the back of a Code of Practice and it will tell you the individual requirement for each mod code.
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:02 pm
by ludacris
I am pretty sure that unless you buy engine mounts from a reputable company who has had there products approved. They wont get enginered.
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:56 pm
by Meldge
ludacris wrote:I am pretty sure that unless you buy engine mounts from a reputable company who has had there products approved. They wont get enginered.
Damn, can anyone verify this for me, that would suck, sort of.
I mean, you would use some sort of standard mount, it is more the removal and attaching back to the chassis.
Meldge
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:12 pm
by Shadow
Meldge wrote:ludacris wrote:I am pretty sure that unless you buy engine mounts from a reputable company who has had there products approved. They wont get enginered.
Damn, can anyone verify this for me, that would suck, sort of.
I mean, you would use some sort of standard mount, it is more the removal and attaching back to the chassis.
Meldge
as long as an engineer can see that the welds are good he should pass it, you need to go speak to an engineer near to you.
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:15 pm
by Beastmavster
My understanding is that you need to be a grade a rated Motor Mechanic with X years experience (cant remember 5 or 10 years).
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:16 pm
by Beastmavster
And of course apply for and pay for the licence
Re: Welding and Mod Plating - QLD
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:18 pm
by Beastmavster
Damo wrote:Meldge wrote:I guess if you can weld good enough you can do your own engine mounts and whatever else, but what do you need to do/study/know before being able to do your own mod plates?
Meldge
Experience. The code of practice for light vehicles details what qualifications and experience you need to approve certain modifications. From memory from 5 up to 10 years.
Oh, and "good enough" welding should be in accordance to Australian Standard AS1554 SP.
If you're not certified to this level 9ie professional welder) they're within their rights to force you to get your welds xrayed for testing
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:23 am
by auto_eng
The person approving the engine swap should be able to look at your welds and make a fair judgement on the quality of the weld without needing to x-ray (generally). This will also depend on the location of the weld and the result of failure of this weld. If failure of the weld is going to result in a total loss of steering, they an x-ray would mandatory. This is not usually the case for engine mounts. It also depends on the design of the mount. If you welds are only locating steel rather than actually bearing the load that will change things too. I will pm you the phone number of someone in Brissie who can help you out.
cheers
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:56 pm
by bru21
codes are on a one by one basis. you have to attend a course for each code and have all the stuff as above.
in reality nothing in qld has to be 'engineered'. the right man (mechanic etc) with the right codes will plate it. all the engineers i have delt with are wankers- no offence:roll:
what i can't understand is why people worry about wether their welding is up to scratch or not cause the engineer won't pass it. many mods you depend your life on not the engineers. if your front panhard lets go at 110 klms for eg. you will most likely die. if you can't weld don't. get a mate or a pro to lay some beads for you. then strangely the engineer will like it more too
cheers bru
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:19 am
by auto_eng
The reason a lot of us get picky about welds is that if we approve something we approve fails due to the weld it come under criminal negligance as opposed to professional negligance. Getting sued and loosing everything you have worked for is bad, having to camp out with bubba makes it a whole lot worse. I have soft white skin and would not fare well in jail so I check welds properly. Usually the difference in good to bad is just a couple of minutes in preparation.
You are right that you don't need to be an engineer to do a lot of mod stuff in QLD but is you are still retain the liability above if you are one. If a mod you have done comes undone on the hwy there is also a good chance you will take someone else out too. The certificaion process is also about protecting people form themselves and other peoples work.
I think the mod plate scheme in qld is good in the respect that you can go to a motor mechanic (example) who has the code you need and get approval for work you have done without having to go to the expense of having an engineer certify it. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to take your money but also think it is better all round because if a mod can be certified for a $100 (example again) the owner will be more likely to have it done and that way someone with some experience will have a look at it to make sure it is safe. If the only option is $600+ they you will be more likely to run the gauntlet and leave it up to your own judgement.
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:56 am
by Meldge
auto_eng wrote:The reason a lot of us get picky about welds is that if we approve something we approve fails due to the weld it come under criminal negligance as opposed to professional negligance. Getting sued and loosing everything you have worked for is bad, having to camp out with bubba makes it a whole lot worse. I have soft white skin and would not fare well in jail so I check welds properly. Usually the difference in good to bad is just a couple of minutes in preparation.
You are right that you don't need to be an engineer to do a lot of mod stuff in QLD but is you are still retain the liability above if you are one. If a mod you have done comes undone on the hwy there is also a good chance you will take someone else out too. The certificaion process is also about protecting people form themselves and other peoples work.
I think the mod plate scheme in qld is good in the respect that you can go to a motor mechanic (example) who has the code you need and get approval for work you have done without having to go to the expense of having an engineer certify it. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to take your money but also think it is better all round because if a mod can be certified for a $100 (example again) the owner will be more likely to have it done and that way someone with some experience will have a look at it to make sure it is safe. If the only option is $600+ they you will be more likely to run the gauntlet and leave it up to your own judgement.
On the skin and bubba jokes...
I agree though some people have to check this work over and knock it back if deemed unsafe, those so called 'wankers' are not only covering there own @ss, but also could be saving someones life.
And that is exactly why I wanted to go about it all the right way, but in the answers I am getting it will be easier to get my guys to do this work for me. I will give it a go when I can weld good enough, but I will have it checked over and Mod Plated aswell. If it gets knocked back, ask why and learn from your mistakes, try again, or then pay someone to do it.
Meldge
custom mounts and welding
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:56 pm
by choppa1978
I work a performance workshop in capalaba in qld called Zero imits and we customize in engeneering mounts and fitting jap import engines e.g sr20 ca18 vg30 and aussie engines into like anything, we do heaps of v8 patrols and v8 cruisers as for mounts and mods i have an engineer that checks all mods i do and advises how to do certain things, i do all welding and engeneering in haouse and haven't had a drama yet getting anything passed or plated ,
IF ANYONE NEEDS ADVISE OR HELP WITH CONVERSIONS PLEASE CALL US.
OR VISIT US AT
zerolimits.com.au
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:10 pm
by bru21
when i said wankers i clearly said the ones i have delt with. i lived with two engineers when i was at uni and they were top blokes and i have done some engineering subjects with my science degree myself.
what i ment is the hassle. ie i cut my wagon to a ute. i went to get it engineered. he wanted to see it three times during construction (at $125 a pop). he wanted me to take it to him (really his shop is 15 mins away and a tilt tray would be a 100+ exercise each time
) i maneged to convince him to come and see me. then he came with a lot of paperwork for trucks as there is no wagon to ute code. he spent about an hour telling me that my body mounts wern't adaquate. i said i had 6 factory ones the same as the factory ute and it is not body lifted etc. he then argued that my rollover won't be good. as i was using a ute back i ended up with two 'b' pillars so it should be twice as strong. he said the welding would never be as strong as factory. i stiched it on with full welds at the corners and a stich every inch - far stronger than the one spot weld per 6 inches.
then he couldn't come to see the next step after i arranged in advance on two occasions.
no other local engineer bloke would see it as i had started it with another bloke.
i thought &%$# it and finished it without him, took it to a place in brizzie and got it mod plated as a panelvan to ute code and a seating reduction code for $135. DONE. the bloke said she should be strong enough with two pillars and commented how my welds were over kill. champion.
i recon the biggest problem with the system is that there is no room for mods outside the square. if i want to run 44's
on the road i should be able to if they are speed rated, don't fowl the guards etc, up grade the truck to handle the calculated loads etc... but its not possible.... so what happens - people do dangerous stuff anyway and risk others lives.
secondly, as if a mod plate or engineer cert would stand up in court. the eng could deny it was in the state it was in when he saw it (could have stress cracked whilst 4x4ing for eg) or the code is incorrect. like my five link got plated as a front suspension code and the bloke would deny that that was the part he approved and wizard would say it is for comp work only and i should have known that.
anyway can't change the system - unless the ccda gets big enough
cheers bru
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:20 pm
by choppa1978
I no the system really sux man. But im lucky to have an engineer that will plate almost anything no questions asked as long as its not overboard and is done prop, we just got through zillmier qld transport in a GQ no dramas, with 5 link and all les duffles arms, 33in tyres and 5 in coils they gave us a self clearence on height thats it. It even had a crack in the screen top to bottom, full exo cage and got it blue plated the day before the inspection.
If you need any blue plates or engineers certiification contact me.
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:01 pm
by Meldge
With all these guys coming out of the woodwork saying 'Come to me, I'll do your plates'. We might be able to get some really good prices out of them...
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:55 pm
by Nev62
Do all of the engineers only live in Qld or no one else game enough come "out of the closet"??
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:20 pm
by choppa1978
its all about who you know
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:00 pm
by RUFF
An exo cage needs no approval. It is no different to ARB Scrub bars or a roofrack. As long as it doesnt obscure the drivers View.
welds
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:59 am
by ratboy
welds there are only 2 types good and bad first buy a slab find a good boilermaker show him the slab not letting him have a can then show him what u want done get him to do it then and only then give him the beer
u will be glad u got some one who knows what he is doing with a welder
your engineer will see the good workman ship and pass them straight off
the bat good workman ship is every thing thats in vic anyway
ps some people sy thay can weld but thay cant these people will just stuff
it up for u and rember a slab is cheap for there skill